Everwood - The Ketchup Kids (B/H) #10: In Their End is Their Beginning - Page 2

Taryn74 · 01-08-2010, 07:02 PM

Well said!!!! Nothing I can add to that.

'Tos · 01-09-2010, 04:58 PM

Agreed, Taryn, very well said, Thief. Don't think I have anything to add either. It's just a beautiful summary of the couple and who they are and why they are. I can't think of another couple like them, to be honest. It's just like Everwood to throw something completely unique together and make it work on a realistic level.

Thief Of Love · 02-10-2010, 08:19 PM

I really didn't mean to kill the thread with that, heh.

Feel like we need some point of discussion, but we've been through a number of questions following various lines of thought. Any random ideas? Even just a stray thought about the couple? (It's so much easier coming up with questions for them as separate characters.)

'Tos · 02-10-2010, 09:14 PM

Got two, both related to Ada:

(1) How would Hannah react if she bumped into Ada?

(2) When Bright and Hannah become a couple again--or even married--how do BOTH of them react if they bumped into Ada?

Yeah...all I got tonight, hee.

Thief Of Love · 02-10-2010, 09:38 PM

She'd probably think, "Oh, it's that girl who invited me to her knitting club!" as Bright never identified Ada as being his accomplice in cheating.

Which was actually a great approach to the story, I think; I really can't recall another show in which the cheated-upon partner has either no knowledge of the other party's identity or any interest in discovering his or her identity*, so the total emphasis that both Hannah and Bright put on Bright's actions was rather refreshing. YarnHo was in the wrong, but Bright was the one who actually betrayed Hannah.

*The closest other example I can think of is Luke from Gilmore Girls, when his wife cheated on him with a man Luke knew only by his socks and car, but that's still more awareness than Hannah had.

Taryn74 · 02-12-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

Got two, both related to Ada:

(1) How would Hannah react if she bumped into Ada?

Well, as Thief pointed out, Hannah doesn't yet know that Ada was "the other woman" so there's no reason for her to have much of a reaction at all. I could see Hannah maybe feeling a bit awkward in Ada's presence just because Hannah generally sees herself as less attractive to guys and Ada is the opposite, but there's no reason she should react in any way strange.

Quote:

(2) When Bright and Hannah become a couple again--or even married--how do BOTH of them react if they bumped into Ada?

I hope with all of my heart they never bump into Ada together, because I can definitely see Ada being all smug and familiar and Bright being very uncomfortable, and Hannah's a smart girl. She knows how to put two and two together, and then she would feel that heartbreak all over again, now that she has a face to put with the memories. I really, really don't want her to go through that. *cries*

Years ago, my hubby had a woman at work putting the moves on him. When it finally got to the point that he had to tell her he was happily married and to back off, he told me what was going on (because she was the type that might start some rumors to be vindictive, and he was afraid I might catch wind of the rumors and be blindsided by it). Even though there was nothing there on his end, my mind took the info and just ran with it. For months I had to deal with all these "what if" scenarios going thru my mind, and let me tell you, it was not easy. About a year later he was taking a gym class as part of his electives at college, and who was also in the class but that woman. It was like a punch to the gut, and suddenly I was dealing with the "what ifs" all over again - did she intentionally sign up for the same class to pursue him again? Was she dressing in provocative outfits, trying to catch his attention? Was she working out in front of him? Was she watching him work out and lusting over him? GAH. It was torture. So I can only imagine how heartbreaking it would be for someone who actually was cheated on to have to deal with new information, and I just don't want that for Hannah.

everwoodfan52 · 02-12-2010, 08:09 AM

I kind of think that Hannah would have grown a great deal (confidence wise) season 5....so I feel that she will not be so uncomfortable and filled with heartbreak. I think that she will know at this point that Bright really loves her and that his "thing" with Ada was just an irrelevant "thing". She's going to hold her own with Ada.....leaving Ada with egg on her face and grudging admiration.

I would kind of like to see that exchange.

'Tos · 02-14-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taryn

I could see Hannah maybe feeling a bit awkward in Ada's presence just because Hannah generally sees herself as less attractive to guys

Indeed. Which is hard to buy, because as much as the costume department tried to put Sarah in unflattering clothes, Sarah is (and was, as Hannah) absolutely gorgeous. It's like trying to buy Greg as not super good looking in the first season when he was supposed to be a nerdy outcast that nobody wanted to hang out with, heh.

And aw, Taryn.

That does like a hellish experience. Ada being smug is why I asked, though, because I think Hannah would realize, and it would be interesting to see how she would react, but even more how Bright would react. Do they see it as a mistake that eventually ended up bringing out such growth in Bright? Do either of them get insecure? That kind of thing. I'd really like to believe that Bright would feel so awful that he'd try and apologize all over again and try and make a big deal about trying to make it up to Hannah, but Hannah wouldn't want that. Basically, Bright overreacting assuming Hannah was freaking out over it, but because they had grown so much as a couple, Ada's smugness not having an effect on her. Maybe a pretty darn optimistic version of what would happen, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betty

I kind of think that Hannah would have grown a great deal (confidence wise) season 5....so I feel that she will not be so uncomfortable and filled with heartbreak. I think that she will know at this point that Bright really loves her and that his "thing" with Ada was just an irrelevant "thing". She's going to hold her own with Ada.....leaving Ada with egg on her face and grudging admiration.

I would kind of like to see that exchange.

Absolutely. That's what I was thinking too, that Hannah would have a great reaction to seeing Ada if she did (I don't want to see it in a S5 or any season, hee, it seems very soap opera even as a hypothetical) and it would emphasize how the two of them are more together now then before Bright cheated.

MeredithLuvsMnJ · 03-16-2010, 09:10 AM

I am extremely late to the party but please add me!!

I found these 2 adorable kids after the show ended. About 2 years ago a friend sent me a couple of Bright/Hannah clips and I fell in love almost instantly... and just this past weekend I was finally able to find a site where I could d/l the entire series... of course I started with season 3, then 4 and have spent the weekend basking in the glow that is Hannah and Bright!

I am gushing over this post and want to add my I agree Thief Of Love!!!

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

For some random reason, I recently recalled a discussion that occurred somewhere, a few years ago, in which the topic was television couples who could or couldn’t be considered “soulmates.” Bright and Hannah were noted as a couple who did not fit this concept. At first I wondered exactly what the parameters of the definition were, but, after thinking through what I thought they might be, realized something: the things that made them counter to the more sweeping, “destined” couples were exactly the things that I love about them

While I have only had the pleasure to watch Hannah and Bright's relationship from beginning to end once, after reading this paragraph my initial response is They were not destined soulmates but because of their circumstances individually and even together, they became soulmates... that for me is even more romantic than the destined soulmates route.

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

While it was fairly clear after “Best Laid Plans,” and outright obvious after “Since You’ve Been Gone,” that Bright and Hannah were going to be paired off, they weren’t presented as being somehow irresistibly pulled to one another

Hannah was attracted to Bright's outside and her outside was not what Bright found attractive... what I loved here is the transition of their attraction... because they became friends, Hannah was given a view into inside Bright, the real Bright and once that happened, his cuteness became secondary and her inside Bright attraction overtook her outside Bright attraction... I loved the one scene where Rose had come home from the hospital and Bright picked her up to carry her upstairs and the look on Hannah's face seeing Bright do that...

Bright was given a view into inside Hannah and because of his attraction to inside Hannah, outside Hannah became beautiful in his eyes... Getting To Know You... oh so poignant and I will forever love Bright for his awesomeness there.

Though they took different routes, Hannah and Bright ended up at the same place being attracted to the total person.

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

But upon realizing that she was funny and Ephram-like, and that he needed an actual friend after falling out with Real Ephram and losing his high school pals, he made a serious effort to do this, and this alone – befriend her, not because she was Hannah, but because she made a pretty good candidate for friendship... Bright freely offered this (along with a good ear for listening), simply because it’s the kind of friend he is

And this is why I saw their relationship as solid even when Bright cheated... they were genuine friends... and this is why I believed they would eventually get back together (plus Bright's realization that what he thought he was missing, he wasn't missing at all and that Hannah's 80 far outweights Ava's 20).

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

But, of course, the two were also incredibly different, different in ways that frankly should have made them incompatible as romantic partners: their personalities were really pretty complementary, but certain of their values and interests clashed indeed. This could definitely hurt them in the fated soulmate department; it certainly helped hurt their actual relationship. But that same tension was, for one, incredibly real given the juxtaposition of characters like these, and was well worth exploring; it was, furthermore, something that meant more effort on the parts of each. Yeah, they avoided any talk of their feelings regarding, you know, abstinence and parties, and it would come back to haunt them, but at the same time, they did still work to mitigate their differences. Bright had the tougher task, but he still managed to put his feelings and basic respect for Hannah above his own desires, prior to the point when things began to unravel between them anyway. And Hannah shouldn't have felt the need to put on a front of loving parties, but she was acting out of the, I presume, accurate belief that sometimes loving someone means making a compromise -- not on the grounds of morals or ethics, but simply interests and activities

What I appreciated about both of them was that they were willing to compromise... Hannah made a comment about this saying she told her self it was compromise that she went to the parties but in reality she was trying to be someone she wasn't... I don't necessarily agree that. Had she been honest after that first party and told Bright that she would go sometimes if he wanted her to, I wouldn't see that as her changing but as her compromising to do what Bright likes sometimes. I love that Bright was willing to at least dial back on the parties for Hannah because a relationship is give and take... sometimes you have to give more, sometimes your mate gives more... they only needed to be careful/mindful of one party not becoming the one who always gives or gives up something for the other.

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

Yeah, they avoided any talk of their feelings regarding, you know, abstinence and parties, and it would come back to haunt them, but at the same time, they did still work to mitigate their differences. Bright had the tougher task, but he still managed to put his feelings and basic respect for Hannah above his own desires, prior to the point when things began to unravel between them

I found it interesting that after Hannah told Bright there would be no pre marital sex that he did continue to try and go there... baby steps granted but him taking off her bra would have only been the first step to taking off something else. He is so charming and I honestly think he was banking on his charm to get him access into Hannah's fun house (a term Landry used when talking to Matt about Julie!! LOL).. the question that will never be answered is, if Bright had walked away from Ava, would Hannah have eventually given in to Bright (or given into to him in her dorm room at A&M!). Hannah was a bright (no pun intended) girl and she knew Bright, in her words, was a sex adict... she had to know it was not wise to continue to make out with him to the degree that she was (and she even showed her hand and told him she liked the making out).

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

she was acting out of the, I presume, accurate belief that sometimes loving someone means making a compromise -- not on the grounds of morals or ethics, but simply interests and activities.

Yes it does... I am married to a man I dated for 10 years and over the course of our relationship I have actually learned to enjoy being a part of activities he likes that I am not crazy about... I learned to appreciate being with him more than what it was I was doing with him.

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

They were, however, two people who -- for all their faults and all their mistakes -- knew what a commitment to another person entailed, who were willing to make that effort, and who were already beautifully positioned to make a much longer-term commitment work

Well said and this is especially attractive on Bright... I loved when Hannah was going to go back home with her mom and Bright was down about it and Rose told him he could do anything if he put his mind to it... and that is one reason I love this character... with his many shortcomings and "impulses" and seeming low IQ LOL! I think Bright is as bright as Hannah... all he has to do is apply himself and he can have whatever it is he wants... I am glad Hannah is what he wants!! LOL

OK, I have talked too long... but as I said I am gushing over Hannah and Bright so you all will have to excuse me...

Thief Of Love · 03-16-2010, 09:27 AM

Added!

everwoodfan52 · 03-16-2010, 10:35 AM

Meredith, your thoughts are so beautiful. I have never looked at this couple this way...you're right...Bright came to appreciate Hannah's outside, and Hannah came to appreciate Bright's inside....and they did develop into soulmates.

Welcome to our Board!

MeredithLuvsMnJ · 03-16-2010, 10:36 AM

^^^Thanks!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

(1) How would Hannah react if she bumped into Ada?

I can see Hannah eventually asking Bright who the girl was... and probably at a very inopportune moment for Bright!!! I can also see Bright not wanting to go there but Hannah will insist and Bright will recount that day at Sam's (?)... and then if Hannah ran into her sometime prior to or just after she and Bright get back together, I could see her giving Ava a once over like the one she gave the girl in Getting To Know You...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

(2) When Bright and Hannah become a couple again--or even married--how do BOTH of them react if they bumped into Ada?

If they are married I can honestly see little or no reaction from either of them... assuming they would not marry until both have graduated from college and have jobs, years would have past, their relationship would be even stronger and they would have already had an honest talk about it and worked things thru to the point where seeing Ava would not phase Hannah one bit...

Though, I could see Bright point to to Ava and say Typical then point to Hannah and say Always beautiful...

Another point I had thought about re:Bright cheating was what would it had been like had Bright told Hannah what he told Amy... that he thought he was missing something. I think that would have been a powerful conversation because I could actually see Hannah analyzing it with her head yet her heart may have second guessed itself and she may have wondered if she should have let Bright get to Bra Removal Time.

My question is what was it exactly that made Bright change his mind about breaking up with Hannah in Connect Four... I gave him credit for his decision because he was being honest... and maybe there was a deleted scene but I would have liked to seen what changed his mind.

Thief Of Love · 03-16-2010, 10:52 AM

Great edits to your original post, Meredith!

Quote:

My question is what was it exactly that made Bright change his mind about breaking up with Hannah in Connect Four... I gave him credit for his decision because he was being honest... and maybe there was a deleted scene but I would have liked to seen what changed his mind.

I always thought it went back to Ephram's asking Bright, earlier in the episode, what he would hypothetically want for Hannah -- to stay with him or to be with someone who could give her what she needs -- and Bright's deciding that he just wants Hannah to be happy. When he shows up at Nina's doorstep, he sees how purely happy she is just to see him again, which makes him purely happy, and he decides, at least at that moment, that she's worth the sacrifice. That seems like it might be the decisive moment, at least to my view.

MeredithLuvsMnJ · 03-16-2010, 11:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post)

I always thought it went back to Ephram's asking Bright, earlier in the episode, what he would hypothetically want for Hannah... and Bright's deciding that he just wants Hannah to be happy. When he shows up at Nina's doorstep, he sees how purely happy she is just to see him again, which makes him purely happy, and he decides, at least at that moment, that she's worth the sacrifice

I like this! I LOVE THIS!!!!

It had not crossed my mind that her reaction to him being back was what changed his mind but now that I can see it clearly... I think it sort of explains boisterous Bright's quite calm as he just stood there and stared at Hannah... maybe he was simply astonished that he was the cause for the extremely happy smile on Hannah's face... maybe that moment humbled Bright a bit because it showed him in a real but simply way just how special he was to Hannah... and then when he hugged her and just held on to her, maybe he was thinking how close he came to foolishly tossing her aside.

OK, I am going to go watch that scene now with this POV in mind

What was everyone's reation to the shower scene in Getting to Know You...

As I said in my OP, Hannah is a bright girl and I was surprised she went there with sex adict Bright... I know she trusts him not to pressure her into doing something she doesn't want to do but how could she not know how taxing a closeness like that must have been for Haven't Had Sex In Months Bright...

It was an emotional coming together for sure but the physicalness of it... the NAKED physicalness of it had to be hard (no pun intended) for Bright.

everwoodfan52 · 03-16-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

What was everyone's reation to the shower scene in Getting to Know You...

I considered it a big tease. It wasn't necessary and most definitely put a lot of "pressure" on poor Bright.

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Everwood > The Ketchup Kids (B/H) #10: In Their End is Their Beginning