jediwands

I don't know why but I can't remember this in a visual way right now. Though what you said sounds very familiar so you are right on. I can't wait to get to this on the rewatch and watch this. I have only seen season 4 once. I was so upset over the cancellation and Ephram/Amy still not back together so I watched but not like how I watched the first three seasons studying every second over and over again.

I can't wait to watch season 4 again.

ETA: I totally remember now... it is in All the Lonely People. Harold buys Rose a necklace, but Bright takes the necklace to give it to Hannah as an apology for his cheating.

I know why I forgot this storyline.. it was lame. Two episodes or so later, Bright falls into glass and conveniently Hannah is forced to be by his side. Yes, not a fan of the cheating storyline, the convenience factor involved with Bright getting injured, forcing Hannah to go to his side after the cheating, and then just in general how messed up the storyline got in the last handful of episodes.

break the window

remembering those episodes, I want to give Berlanti and award on excellence


With little to no effort, he managed to destroy a perfectly good couple in a matter of one episode, two tops. Great work

jediwands

Seriously. I don't quite know what he was thinking here. I don't know if he was going with the angle that Bright has a pattern where he screws up big time and that's how he learns from his mistakes or what. I don't get it. Why take all the time to build up Bright/Hannah and then destroy them after that? It doesn't really make sense.

break the window

Why take all the time to build up Bright into this responsible man if he's just gonna wind back up where he started. There were some amazing scenes with Rose and Bright and to think that is ripped away by...drama

jediwands

I know it, it is so ridiculous. Especially since we saw how affected Bright was when Colin died. He really started to evolve with his maturity, especially when he came to terms with his part in the accident. Also, at times in season 2, Bright was ten times more mature than Ephram was. You could see the growth inside of Bright. Sure, he did some "Bright-like" things in season 2 but overall, he was evolving. Season 3 hit and we saw him start to decline. I think it really did relate to wanting to have a horrid dramatic crisis between Bright/Hannah. Why go there? I don't understand what the point was. But then again, I also don't understand why Madison was like the terminator, never dying, never leaving either.

TL22

I agree, he also did the same thing on Dawson's Creek. It was his idea that Pacey kiss Joey, thus the end of Andie, who in my opinion was far better than Joey.

jediwands

Andie was like a million times better than Joey. I am with you, 100%. Pacey/Andie needed destroyed for Pacey/Joey. Absolutely ridiculous. Pacey/Andie made season 2. Although, my recollection was Berlanti was a Dawson/Joey fan, not Pacey/Joey. This is shocking if true that he wanted to get them started. I thought that was all Paul Stupin.

TL22

I'll double checkm,but I'm pretty sure. Also Dawson's Creek lost 1.4 million viewers per episode from season two to season three.......My take on it is that many viewers quit in disgust on what they did with Andie.

jediwands

Most definitely. I was the biggest Pacey/Andie fan and loved Andie as a character in general. I was fuming when they had Andie cheat on Pacey (beyond out of character, all to make way for PJ ) and then they had her cry rape in season 3 which was another out of character moment. They had to destroy Andie to pimp up Joey and it made me sick!

break the window

it's really sad to use cone couple just to prop up another and the Pacey and Andie thing is really unforgiveable

jediwands

Agreed!

That's why I hated PJ... all of these things had to happen in order for them to be together... Pacey/Andie, the one beautiful thing about season 2 had to be destroyed, Andie's character as a whole was taken down because Joey had to be pimped and brought up as this princess that could do no wrong, Dawson/Joey had to be tortured... these things had to happen in order for the relationship to happen... even then, it wasn't believable to me.

I am pretty sure Berlanti was not a PJ fan. I remember reading an interview with him saying he thought Dawson/Joey should have ended up together. Paul Stupin was the one who took over in season 3 and all of these things were his ideas.

Jerry and I have talked about Paul Stupin at length. LOL

I am convinced that Ephram/Amy were the result of Berlanti seeing the mistakes that were made on Dawson's Creek and he didn't want his own show going there. I do wonder if it was Berlanti or Rina who decided on having Bright cheat. Maybe they both decided that. Berlanti made sure Ephram/Amy were untouched as far as doing anything to mess with them too severely. I will always be appreciative of this.

TL22

Greg Berlanti is the one who came up with Pacey kisses Joey. I'm going to excerpt a few paragraphs from the book "Billion Dollar Kiss" page 6

"As the day progressed and the story process did not, moving from constructive to
dialectic to something less collegial, twenty seven year old Greg Berlantii, a former producer's assistant who had just started writing TV the year before said something that changed all our lives: "Pacey kisses Joey

I'll condense the rest....They were against it initially but Berlanti was so impassioned on his idea he swayed the other writers.

So, yes it was Greg Berlanti who broke up Pacey and Andie and it was Greg Berlanti who broke up Hannah and Bright.

The author of "Billion Dollar Kiss" is Jeffery Stepakoff who was one of the new writers. In his opinion the kiss saved the show. Which I disagree with. The new crop of writers had no idea how to follow Kevin Williamson. As I said before the show lost 1.4 million viewers per episode season 3.

I don't think even Berlanti and Stepakoff envisioned Pacey and Joey at the end. They did a pretty good job of destroying that relationship season four. (Promicide)

I think around season four the network decided Katie Holmes was going to be the next IT GIRL and that is when the series swung to her being the main character as she was seasons 5 and 6.

I also suspect the network may have been behind the release of Meredith Monroe who in my opinion was much better looking than Katie Holmes (even thought they tried to hide it) and a much better actress.

I can't even conceive of Katie Homes pulling off the bathroom scene with Joshua Jackson. at the end of season two.

Another great Meredith Monroe scene was when Jack came out to his father. Her, Kerr Smith and the late David Dukes. Nailed that scene, some of the best acting on the show.

The thing is if Meredith Monroe was available when KW needed her for 2 or 3 weeks instead of one day; you most likely would have had a different ending.

TL22

By the way there is some good Pacey and Andie fanfiction on fanfiction.net.

jediwands

Wow, I never knew any of this! I had no idea he was directly involved!

Maybe he did tinker with PJ but never intended for it to be long term. He created a monster essentially!

So true about Katie being the IT girl.

Yes, Kevin wrote a DJ and PA ending and then changed it at the last minute. I remember when those spoilers changed drastically. Excellent point about Meredith Monroe and if she was available for the finale more, we would have gotten our ending. That is very frustrating to think about!

Thank you for the fan fic link!

I will never get over what was done to PA in season 2 and DJ for that matter. I had no idea Berlanti was directly involved, no idea! Now, more than ever, it seems he learned not to do that to Ephram/Amy but of course, slipped up with Bright/Hannah. I remember reading something about him thinking it should have been a Dawson/Joey ending. I had absolutely no idea he played a part in the beginning of Pacey/Joey and destruction of Pacey/Andie. Berlanti was a big part of season 2. He was the reason in many ways that we received such amazing Pacey/Andie scenes. Then he throws it all away by forcing Pacey/Joey and destroying Pacey/Andie? That sucks so much!

Jerry D

Wow, that blows me away. I had no idea that Greg Berlanti came up with the idea of Pacey kissing Joey. The end of Season Three of Dawson's Creek didn't “save” the show, it ruined it. The way that Pacey and Joey got together and Dawson’s reaction to them getting together ruined all of the characters and the relationships and the friendships on the show were never the same after that. Pacey and Joey’s relationship was based on deception and betrayal, and yet a lot of people bought into it and blamed Dawson and/or Andie for everything. Putting Pacey and Joey together also divided the fanbase and it created a lot of animosity here between the Dawson and Joey fans and the Pacey and Joey fans, and I still have hurt feelings about how hateful some people were to each other and to me personally because of that ill conceived love triangle. I also hated the character assassination that the writers put Andie through, and I hate that Meredith Monroe was written off the show because her character was completely ruined to the point where she was hated and some people here at Fan Forum actually had the gall to write that they should kill her off or have her commit suicide! Needless to say, I went through the roof when someone posted that on the Dawson’s Creek board here when I moderated it! Andie was a much better girlfriend to Pacey than Joey ever was, and she was a wonderful person who had been through a lot, but her character was purposely destroyed in Season Three, as was Dawson’s character. I hated how Joey/Katie Holmes became the IT Girl of the show that everyone praised, because I found Joey to be incredibly selfish and heedless of the feelings of the people that loved her. I also agree that Meredith Monroe was a much better actress than Katie Holmes, and I hated how the show became the Joey Potter hour in the later seasons. Even after all these years, I’m still bitter over what was done to all of the characters on Dawson’s Creek in Season Three to accommodate a Pacey and Joey paring.