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Old 11-14-2011, 10:30 PM
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Harold Abbott Sr. Thread – “The Boss” –

Hey all,

It’s that Chibi back with another EW revelation. The two most influential people to the main EW cast are actually characters we have not met:

• Julia Brown
• Harold Abbott Sr.


Let me break down why Sr. is the boss:

• Somehow, he tamed the firecracker that is Edna Abbott. Just think about it, the independent, strong-will woman, who blows up bridges and goes to Vietnam for the hell of it, fell for this man… but what kind of guy was he?

• Through Jr, we see a neurotic, paranoid, strict, and morally rigid Abbott.
o I doubt Sr, was 100% like this personality trait.

• To catch the eye of Edna Abbott and capture the heart of the Everwood; he had to contain one side of “Jr” and one side town’s sweet heart

This is what amazes me the most; containing the personality with high principles yet he had gentle understanding behind the morals.
o Sr had to exhibit such high moral fiber that Jr took too far (subjective) but yet he had the understanding and calamity that was the admiration of Edna Abbott


Not only that; he’s a pioneer:

• Started (I think) and maintained the most badass medical facility in Everwood before that jerk showed up.
• Raised two great children
• The moose lodge exhibited nothing but adoration for the guy. I mean come on, you have a room full of old dudes with moose horns giving you praise. That’s what dreams are made of.


That’s pretty much it. Your thoughts? Post up criticism/feedback or little tid bits from episodes that will shed more light on “The Boss”.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:10 AM
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Neat idea for a thread, Chibi! (Glad to see you back, by the way, it's be way too long!)

I REALLY like your point about how Harold Sr. impressed Edna somehow and what kind of man he would have been to manage that. We really didn't get any insights into their marriage, him as a father really, or...much about him other than what Harold said about him. It's honestly too bad that we never got a flashback about him because, yeah, as you said, he is a major influence on the show as he is a major influence into who Harold is an what his life is like.

Nice thoughts! I'll hopefully have more to say, but since it's after midnight here, all I've got is a thanks for starting the thread.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:24 AM
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Great thread, Chibi!!

I find it interesting that Edna did not mourn Harold Sr. as much as she did Irv. She said herself, "Do I seem like the mourning type to you?" She obviously was with Irv.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:02 AM
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Loving the thread too, Chibi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiT89 (View Post)
• Somehow, he tamed the firecracker that is Edna Abbott. Just think about it, the independent, strong-will woman, who blows up bridges and goes to Vietnam for the hell of it, fell for this man… but what kind of guy was he?
This is a very interesting question to think about. I think that any man Edna would fall for would have to be someone who is very independent himself, someone with a great strength of character...someone she could admire in some way. She'd have to consider him either her equal or even her superior, I think. While it's hard to imagine Edna admitting that someone is better than her in any way really, I think Harold Sr. had to have traits she envied and admired for her to actually fall in love with him.

It's interesting to think that a small-town family doctor could have that effect on a free-spirited gypsy type like Edna. He must have been such a good man and someone she felt so deeply about that he even changed her view on life itself--making her realize that she could settle down at some point in a less-than-exhilarating place and focus on other aspects of life.

Since Edna herself is, as you described, such a firecracker, I tend to think that Harold Sr. was gentler and more level-headed. Someone that could balance Edna's fire with water, but at the same time, not someone that would use all that water to put the fire out. Edna wouldn't stand for someone who tried to change her or dampen her spirit in any way, so Harold Sr. must have been that counterpart that allowed her to be who she is but also provided the necessary rationality, comfort, and calming effect she would probably need at times.

Something else that occurs to me is this: I think Harold Sr. must have either been effeminate or super-masculine (based on traditional definitions, of course, not necessarily my definition of gender), in order to complement Edna. I can see Edna being attracted to an effeminate man because it would balance out her masculinity and would follow the "opposites attract" rule. She might want to feel more like the "man" in the relationship and wouldn't want anyone to be more aggressive or dominant than she is.

On the other hand, I can also see Edna falling for a super-masculine man that makes even her feel like a "girl". Someone that perhaps even intimidates her or challenges her sense of dominance, making her feel flustered and bashful and giggly. (Imagine Edna giggling! )

Or maybe it was a combination of both somehow. I know personally that I usually like effeminate guys but they are actually the ones that make me feel all those classic schoolgirl emotions too.

Quote:
• Through Jr, we see a neurotic, paranoid, strict, and morally rigid Abbott.
o I doubt Sr, was 100% like this personality trait.

• To catch the eye of Edna Abbott and capture the heart of the Everwood; he had to contain one side of “Jr” and one side town’s sweet heart
Aww, but Harold Jr. has a warm heart too! But I know what you mean. I can definitely see Harold Sr. being quite a bit like his son; I can imagine him being kind of prissy and very dedicated to his morals. However, as you said, perhaps Harold Sr. was more openly friendly and loving toward the townspeople...maybe more laid-back and with an easier sense of humor. Maybe he was a mix of Andy and Harold then?
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:15 PM
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‘Tos,

Thanks for remembering me! =) I’d like to say I’m here to stay but I know how sketchy I am with online commitment! However with that Revenge show and that hottie Emily VanCamp tearing it up on ABC, you know I’m going to post up!

In S2, in the flashback episode at the train station, you see a glimpse of his back, I believe. I think he says something stupid like, “run along so I can say bye to your Mom”. Thanks Berlanti for making the most badass character so mysterious!

I’m going to make T-shirts with Jr’s outline with a big “?” in the middle.


EWfan,

Hmm, great point. That’s kind of insulting to Sr but I guess you could reason with the first loss, she had someone there to comfort her but with the 2nd loss, the pain was amplified with no one to run to?

I bet Sr. and Irv are in heaven duking it out. Two totally different personalities but I bet they share the same gentle heart.


Lemon,

You put it way more thorough and eloquent than me. My thoughts exactly!

I think he’s a mixture of the effeminate and “masculine”. I mean, look at the Abbott stick frames (except Bright, guy is a beast), so he must’ve been “effeminate” in the caring sense and physical shape but he’d be quick to slap you if you looked at him the wrong way. And by “slap” I mean say something extremely witty to stupify you but make you LOL at the same time.

Best line of Harold’s, “2%...milk”. Hah, who says that at a bar? cracks me up everytime.

Holy Crap… ANDY and HAROLD? And-rold? Har-dy? Best combo ever, I wish they would put on masks and fight crime. Honestly I like your comparison. That’s actually a good way of putting it…
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:41 PM
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I've always imagined Harold Sr. as more masculine for whatever reason. I guess because we got a sense that he wasn't close to his kids as a parent and was so focused on work. I've imagined him being kind of old school, who felt it was his job to protect the family more than raise the family. But...then again, Edna didn't really raise the kids either, so someone had to! I actually think Harold did more than his parents at times. And someone had to have cooked too!! All of Harold, Linda, Edna and Harold Sr. don't seem like the types unless Linda got experimental and I can imagine Harold refusing to eat it, and maybe Harold Sr. too. Edna was not into cooking for sure. So Harold is very lucky he met Rose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi
Thanks for remembering me! =) I’d like to say I’m here to stay but I know how sketchy I am with online commitment! However with that Revenge show and that hottie Emily VanCamp tearing it up on ABC, you know I’m going to post up!
Oh, I can't forget someone who posts such interesting thoughts! I mean, look at this thread for example. I hope you do stick around. We've always got lots of Revenge talk too!
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:14 AM
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Sooo I've never really thought about how important Senior really was until this thread. Props to Chibi and everyone else for enlightening me!

I wanted to see more flashbacks between the two but I don't think that's something the show was ever really interested in doing. It seemed like they had plenty of opportunities but never went through with it.

I always kind of figured he was just focused on work, as 'Tos mentioned, which led to Junior growing up at a young age and playing more of a parental role. As for cooking goes, I could definitely see them eating out a lot. They were probably mainstays at "Mama Joy's."

ETA: The whole Edna/Harold Senior thing is really interesting. I guess they had more of a "working partnership" than a true marriage.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
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I always kind of figured he was just focused on work, as 'Tos mentioned, which led to Junior growing up at a young age and playing more of a parental role. As for cooking goes, I could definitely see them eating out a lot. They were probably mainstays at "Mama Joy's."
Ooh, I like that idea! Like it's been a mainstay for the family and that's why Harold always goes there. I can imagine him and his dad going for lunch, and them not really having THAT much of a conversation because I imagine Harold Sr. as pretty quiet especially as he grew older and not all that close with Harold, but Harold would cherish going to lunch with him anyway.

This show is all about daddy issues. Andy, Ephram, Harold, Kyle...
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:33 PM
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Haha, very true! I always thought there had to be some reason that Harold went there so much because you would think he'd "look down" on it.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:35 PM
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Haha, very true! I always thought there had to be some reason that Harold went there so much because you would think he'd "look down" on it.
Ah, yes! Agreed. I see he and Harold Sr very much being men of habit, so once they got comfy there, that was that, heh. I''m surprised, actually, that Harold didn't make more of a stink about Mama Joy's being turned into Sam's!
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:29 AM
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Ah, yes! Agreed. I see he and Harold Sr very much being men of habit, so once they got comfy there, that was that, heh. I''m surprised, actually, that Harold didn't make more of a stink about Mama Joy's being turned into Sam's!
Good point on them being men of habit.

And yeah, you're right! Actually, wait a second...did Harold even go there once it became Sam's? I can only think of one time in the episode when Cliff and Jake go biking together. Maybe he protested in a quiet way?
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:47 AM
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Good point on them being men of habit.

And yeah, you're right! Actually, wait a second...did Harold even go there once it became Sam's? I can only think of one time in the episode when Cliff and Jake go biking together. Maybe he protested in a quiet way?
Hmm. *rubs chin* Good observation. That could be it! Although I can't imagine Harold doing anything like that quietly.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:18 PM
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Bumping because I just rewatched The Pilot and wanted to mention that Edna does specifically say that Harold Sr. was "just like" Harold Jr. and that they had "everything in common". So that changes things up for this discussion a bit.

If we assume that Harold Sr. really was extremely similar to Jr., what do you guys think were the qualities in Sr. that Edna fell in love with? I think it was probably the strong moral code and caring for people, intellect, uptight attitude (because she probably found it fun to mess with him and try to lighten him up), possibly that he was more feminine than she was , and the different perspective/ability to open her mind to new things (such as the idea that settling down in a small town was something to be sought rather than ran away from).
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
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possibly that he was more feminine than she was , and the different perspective/ability to open her mind to new things (such as the idea that settling down in a small town was something to be sought rather than ran away from).
Perhaps the fact that he was more feminine than Edna was what she needed in a husband. She needed a man to stay at home with the children while she went off to war. She took on the masculine role there and would probably not be in a position to do that with a different kind of a man
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:30 PM
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Perhaps the fact that he was more feminine than Edna was what she needed in a husband. She needed a man to stay at home with the children while she went off to war. She took on the masculine role there and would probably not be in a position to do that with a different kind of a man
I agree! One of my speculations earlier in the thread was that Edna might fall for an effeminate guy since she herself is so masculine and would want someone to balance her out. Also true about staying home more with the kids--Harold Sr., while obviously a doctor and thus employed with a demanding job himself, almost definitely took on the role of the stay-home parent much more than Edna ever did.
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