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Old 08-13-2018, 07:07 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by secretk (View Post)
We did not get enough of this. Then again with the way they were acting, we would have never felt that we have got enough .
LOL So true.

Do you think Ephram/Amy got together at the right time or should they have officially gotten together earlier than they did?
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:45 AM
  #62
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How cute is this picture? I've never seen it before:

It's amazing how much they both grew up in just a few years.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:51 AM
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LOL So true.

Do you think Ephram/Amy got together at the right time or should they have officially gotten together earlier than they did?
I think it was the perfect time. In the pilot, there's a chemistry between Amy and Ephram, even if it's not clearly romantic. They obviously have a thing going on, something that you know when you meet someone new and even if it's nothing romantic, there's just a similar way of thinking or a connection somehow there but you can't place it or a similar sense of humor? They had that thing. And I think one thing that first season does so well is use that and build off it and gradually the characters grow into each other and one of the reasons the relationship works is because of the fact that there's push and pull in the beginning, when Colin is still in the picture. Once they're free to be together, it's very natural and feels good for the audience, in the same way that it feels good for the characters.

Miss these people! Must rewatch soon.

But Tom Amandes on Parenthood has been really fun, even if he's only in it a little.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilpen (View Post)
LOL So true.

Do you think Ephram/Amy got together at the right time or should they have officially gotten together earlier than they did?
IMO (give the Colin story and everything) they got together around the right time. Now granted I would have enjoyed Season 2 more if they had interacted more but I understand why they needed to do this.

You know I would have changed some aspects related to Madison/Ephram but would not change the timing. For me personally the timing was OK. Amy needed time to heal after Colin, Ephram needed to be less obsessed with Amy . And if you think about this time allowed also Bright to accept Ephram before Amy/Ephram actually got together.

What about you? Did you want them to become a couple sooner?
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:31 PM
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IMO (give the Colin story and everything) they got together around the right time. Now granted I would have enjoyed Season 2 more if they had interacted more but I understand why they needed to do this.

You know I would have changed some aspects related to Madison/Ephram but would not change the timing. For me personally the timing was OK. Amy needed time to heal after Colin, Ephram needed to be less obsessed with Amy . And if you think about this time allowed also Bright to accept Ephram before Amy/Ephram actually got together.

What about you? Did you want them to become a couple sooner?
I totally agree with you. The show did an amazing thing by leaving that time for Bright and Ephram to become friends. From the first season to the 2nd/3rd, it's kind of amazing, the transformation the two of them went through as friends. And that couldn't have happened if the Ephram/Amy relationship was established sooner.

Also, I actually (although I had some problems with the storylines - I think some of the Madison episodes meandered a bit) like how they inserted Madison as an legitimate alternate love interest. Because the show would have been too obvious, too stereotypical if it was just kind of the star-crossed lovers thing from the get-go. It's very believable that Madison (or any different love interest than Amy in general) was involved when Amy and Ephram were a little rocky. It gave those characters an opportunity to explores new things and people. And that makes them grow. Also as a byproduct, the Madison situation lead to a fascinating development with Andy holding back the pregnancy thing from Ephram and that lead to all the questions about trust and the ethical boundaries of a father/son relationship....which made for really good episodes.

To be entirely honest, my biggest complaint about Everwood was that it didn't go on longer! At least another season would have been nice. Like I said, I had some minor problems with storylines once in a while and maybe in the beginning of the show, it was in kind of a slow groove (but first episode of season 2 completely changed the whole show, the feeling, the vibe, the intensity, integrity, etc). BUT in general, one of the things I love is the pace, where things landed in the arc of the whole show. So to answer your question, I think generally all the major events in the show happened at the right time, including Ephram/Amy.

One I thing I have to mention is the jazz element in the show. That was one of those things that could have never been in the show and it would seemingly make no difference. But it's so authentic and totally unique to Everwood. There's a lot more to say about it, but I love that part of the show. And GREAT set decorations with all the jazz stuff. - Old Art Tatum posters, etc. Just awesome.

You bring up great questions! Thanks!
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:21 PM
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I think it was the perfect time. In the pilot, there's a chemistry between Amy and Ephram, even if it's not clearly romantic. They obviously have a thing going on, something that you know when you meet someone new and even if it's nothing romantic, there's just a similar way of thinking or a connection somehow there but you can't place it or a similar sense of humor? They had that thing. And I think one thing that first season does so well is use that and build off it and gradually the characters grow into each other and one of the reasons the relationship works is because of the fact that there's push and pull in the beginning, when Colin is still in the picture. Once they're free to be together, it's very natural and feels good for the audience, in the same way that it feels good for the characters.

Miss these people! Must rewatch soon.

But Tom Amandes on Parenthood has been really fun, even if he's only in it a little.
What did you think of the Ephram/Madison relationship? Was it good for Ephram? Bad for Ephram? Bad for the show as a whole? LOL.

She was pretty hated by the vast majority of fans. Wondering what your thoughts are on Madison?

ETA: I just noticed you touched on Madison a bit in your last, wonderful post.

But anything you would want to add specifically, please go for it. Love your thoughts!
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by secretk (View Post)
IMO (give the Colin story and everything) they got together around the right time. Now granted I would have enjoyed Season 2 more if they had interacted more but I understand why they needed to do this.

You know I would have changed some aspects related to Madison/Ephram but would not change the timing. For me personally the timing was OK. Amy needed time to heal after Colin, Ephram needed to be less obsessed with Amy . And if you think about this time allowed also Bright to accept Ephram before Amy/Ephram actually got together.

What about you? Did you want them to become a couple sooner?
I did like the timing overall. You are right that the Colin story 100% dictated proper timing and I think Berlanti nailed it. But yes, Eprham/Madison, I just wish either didn't happen or it was shortened. For example, if possible, we could have seen Ephram/Amy come back together again as friends around mid-season 2 instead of the very end. I also wonder how things might have gone had Ephram helped Amy a bit with the depression. I don't know if the battle would have been impossible for our Ephram but maybe he could have helped her a little. What do you think?
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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What did you think of the Ephram/Madison relationship? Was it good for Ephram? Bad for Ephram? Bad for the show as a whole? LOL.

She was pretty hated by the vast majority of fans. Wondering what your thoughts are on Madison?

ETA: I just noticed you touched on Madison a bit in your last, wonderful post.

But anything you would want to add specifically, please go for it. Love your thoughts!
She was okay. I feel neutral about it. Like I said, I think she was a good distraction for him when Amy wasn't giving him what he needed. And that in a way brought Amy and Ephram together in the end. So, that's good. AND the pregnancy ultimately enhanced the Ephram/Andy relationship and made it more dramatic. Her as an actress, I thought she was mediocre. Not bad, but the caliber (and chemistry) on the show between the regulars was so high that it's hard for guest stars to dig in and keep up. Maybe I felt like she wasn't cast right. Perhaps she was too old for Ephram? She was fine, but I feel as though she could have been played by probably someone else. I don't know if she was perfect for the part the way the other actors were.

She was good for the show because Ephram needed to grow up at his own pace and she helped him do that. I was a little confused as to why the writers decided to have her not talk to Andy or accept any money from him with the pregnancy because he was clearly only trying to help and didn't know how. For her character to freak out on him felt strange to me.

But in general, I think she was a good addition to the show, even though, I think someone else could have played the role of Ephram's girlfriend at that time. I'm glad that there was something dividing Ephram and Amy - not only because it made you want to keep watching to see if they would eventually end up together, but also because it put a kind of pressure on Amy to be like "wow. i love him and have to go after him," which ultimately catapulted their relationship through more or less, the rest of the show.

Does that make sense?

I like her. I think she maybe was a little miscast, but yeah. I will say that I thought Colin's sister and Ephram actually made an interesting team for a short while.
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:39 PM
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I did like the timing overall. You are right that the Colin story 100% dictated proper timing and I think Berlanti nailed it. But yes, Eprham/Madison, I just wish either didn't happen or it was shortened. For example, if possible, we could have seen Ephram/Amy come back together again as friends around mid-season 2 instead of the very end. I also wonder how things might have gone had Ephram helped Amy a bit with the depression. I don't know if the battle would have been impossible for our Ephram but maybe he could have helped her a little. What do you think?
I think that would have been really fascinating. Ephram intervening with her depression. Yeah, she was dating that drug dealer guy at the time, right? I didn't like him. Amy was better than that. But there's also something important in the fact that she more or less got through her mental stuff on her own. I remember her aunt helping a little and she definitely got intermittent help from others, but it gives her character a foundation of strength that perhaps wouldn't be there if Ephram helped her through. I think it's a hard balance to have two romantic partner leads on a show. Them together all the time will get boring or would realistically make them fight. But them apart too much makes you not believe that they love each other. And I think the writing really nailed it somewhere in the middle.
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:23 PM
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She was good for the show because Ephram needed to grow up at his own pace and she helped him do that.
That's how I felt when Madison first came on the scene. I believed her to be someone who would help Ephram grow while he was pining for Amy. Someone to raise him a little closer to Amy's level (on the social ladder). But then...the pregnancy really ruined it for me. I know it added drama between Andy and Ephram and that's good for ratings, but I hated it. I hated that it caused Ephram to ditch his audition. I was devastated for him and for Andy who came such a long way to get back in the good graces of his son.


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I like her. I think she maybe was a little miscast, but yeah. I will say that I thought Colin's sister and Ephram actually made an interesting team for a short while.
I believe we're all with you there! Colin's sister Laynie was really perfect for Ephram and would have been a better substitute for Madison. Unfortunately the powers that be decided to limit Laynie's airtime and once Colin was gone they saw no use for her. That is so unfortunate!

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To be entirely honest, my biggest complaint about Everwood was that it didn't go on longer!
AMEN!
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:55 PM
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She was okay. I feel neutral about it. Like I said, I think she was a good distraction for him when Amy wasn't giving him what he needed. And that in a way brought Amy and Ephram together in the end. So, that's good. AND the pregnancy ultimately enhanced the Ephram/Andy relationship and made it more dramatic.
You definitely have great points. Amy definitely knew she had to eventually get her sht together and go for it with Ephram. Madison certainly helped in this way. Then again, so did Laynie. Amy jealous on Valentine's Day seeing Ephram and Laynie skating was one of my favorite moments.

But yes, eventually Ephram/Andy also worked things out too.

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Her as an actress, I thought she was mediocre. Not bad, but the caliber (and chemistry) on the show between the regulars was so high that it's hard for guest stars to dig in and keep up. Maybe I felt like she wasn't cast right. Perhaps she was too old for Ephram? She was fine, but I feel as though she could have been played by probably someone else. I don't know if she was perfect for the part the way the other actors were.
I know what you mean. Sarah Lancaster isn't a bad actress, she was actually very good on Chuck. But there was something about her as Madison that didn't work for many. It was all the more obvious when she went up against Greg Smith, Treat Williams, Emily VanCamp. Yes, the illegal part to Ephram/Madison rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

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She was good for the show because Ephram needed to grow up at his own pace and she helped him do that. I was a little confused as to why the writers decided to have her not talk to Andy or accept any money from him with the pregnancy because he was clearly only trying to help and didn't know how. For her character to freak out on him felt strange to me.
To create drama basically... also, it was obvious Berlanti and Company wanted to make Andy look bad concerning the pregnancy. He was the fall guy basically.

Quote:
But in general, I think she was a good addition to the show, even though, I think someone else could have played the role of Ephram's girlfriend at that time. I'm glad that there was something dividing Ephram and Amy - not only because it made you want to keep watching to see if they would eventually end up together, but also because it put a kind of pressure on Amy to be like "wow. i love him and have to go after him," which ultimately catapulted their relationship through more or less, the rest of the show.

Does that make sense?

I like her. I think she maybe was a little miscast, but yeah.
You make complete sense.

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I will say that I thought Colin's sister and Ephram actually made an interesting team for a short while.
You have a very popular opinion. So many people (probably the vast majority of the fanbase) wanted Ephram/Laynie to be in a relationship longer term. Certainly not the real deal like Ephram/Amy but many wanted Ephram/Laynie season 2 instead of Ephram/Madison.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:02 PM
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I think that would have been really fascinating. Ephram intervening with her depression. Yeah, she was dating that drug dealer guy at the time, right?
Exactly. Tommy. Yes, I would have much preferred seeing Ephram helping Amy with her depression. I think it would have lead to some amazing moments between them. Plus, we could have even seen Ephram talking about losing his mother as well. They both essentially lost someone (Colin and Julia) and they could have healed together.

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I didn't like him. Amy was better than that.
He was horrible, indeed.

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But there's also something important in the fact that she more or less got through her mental stuff on her own. I remember her aunt helping a little and she definitely got intermittent help from others, but it gives her character a foundation of strength that perhaps wouldn't be there if Ephram helped her through. I think it's a hard balance to have two romantic partner leads on a show. Them together all the time will get boring or would realistically make them fight. But them apart too much makes you not believe that they love each other. And I think the writing really nailed it somewhere in the middle.
That's very true.

Emily VanCamp also shined as Amy during the situational depression storyline. If the show were on any other network, I am convinced she would have been nominated and won an Emmy. The media talked about this so much during season 2.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:16 AM
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I totally agree with you. The show did an amazing thing by leaving that time for Bright and Ephram to become friends. From the first season to the 2nd/3rd, it's kind of amazing, the transformation the two of them went through as friends. And that couldn't have happened if the Ephram/Amy relationship was established sooner.
Definitely . Also I believe that Ephram/Bright was one of the better and more interesting male friendships we have seen on TV. They were different compared to the usual stereotype.

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Also, I actually (although I had some problems with the storylines - I think some of the Madison episodes meandered a bit) like how they inserted Madison as an legitimate alternate love interest.
I was totally OK with the idea of Ephram having some alternate love interest in Season 2. Madison was no the best choice out there, but it was tolerable for the most part save the pregnancy. Still though there were better options than Madison.

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Because the show would have been too obvious, too stereotypical if it was just kind of the star-crossed lovers thing from the get-go.
Agree with this.

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It's very believable that Madison (or any different love interest than Amy in general) was involved when Amy and Ephram were a little rocky. It gave those characters an opportunity to explores new things and people. And that makes them grow.
It was believable that there was love interest. I would not call Madison/Ephram story believable but maybe I just had issues with that aspect of the show .
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Also as a byproduct, the Madison situation lead to a fascinating development with Andy holding back the pregnancy thing from Ephram and that lead to all the questions about trust and the ethical boundaries of a father/son relationship....which made for really good episodes.
Yeah I have to admit I did not enjoy those episodes. In general my issue with this story is that there was a baby involved and I am weird and I just think about this baby. I know that it's TV and not real life, but I would have preferred if they had found another way to have those struggles for Andy.

Quote:
To be entirely honest, my biggest complaint about Everwood was that it didn't go on longer! At least another season would have been nice. Like I said, I had some minor problems with storylines once in a while and maybe in the beginning of the show, it was in kind of a slow groove (but first episode of season 2 completely changed the whole show, the feeling, the vibe, the intensity, integrity, etc). BUT in general, one of the things I love is the pace, where things landed in the arc of the whole show. So to answer your question, I think generally all the major events in the show happened at the right time, including Ephram/Amy.
This is true. And yes we would have enjoyed another season at least.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:49 PM
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:34 AM
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