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Old 10-08-2017, 08:46 PM
  #46
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I completely agree, but I'd take Stephanie over Madison every day of the week.
Me too! Stephanie goes up for woman of the year compared to Madison!

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It didn't appear that Ephram and Stephanie had a very deep relationship, so I'd doubt that he would have told her about Madison and the baby at the point we saw them. If Madison came back and they pursued this "get the baby back" or "find the baby" storyline, or whatever they planned to do I would envision what you said Michelle that once Ephram told Stephanie about Madison and the baby either Stephanie or Ephram would come to the conclusion that he had a lot on his plate at the moment and she'd be out of the picture. I would have hated whatever storyline they were planning with Madison, and I especially would have hated seeing Amy stand out by the Ferris Wheel by herself while Ephram talked to Madison, and I would have hated seeing Amy and Ephram kept apart again due to that witch.
Honestly, Jerry, I believe if we would have seen Amy standing out by the Ferris Wheel while Ephram was talking on the phone to Madison I would have needed to check spoilers massively before watching the premiere of season 5 and maybe even waiting on the first few episodes until I realized what was going to happen. I could barely get over that witch Madison basically making fun of Amy in season 2 when she was depressed at the door wanting to speak to Ephram. I thought that was bad enough. But seeing Amy standing by the Ferris Wheel knowing it was going to be ruined due to Madison selfishly returning... I would have had steam coming out of my ears. According to Berlanti, Madison was returning for just a brief moment... a couple to a few episodes and then leave. She was originally going to to tell Ephram she was having second thoughts about the adoption and was thinking about literally taking the child back to raise. Realistic? Yes, this is Madison! She was selfish and never thought of anyone but herself. The only good news is if this would have been the storyline (Berlanti basically spelled it out that it was true) then it would have made her look even worse. Berlanti said 100% she wasn't returning for anything romantic with Ephram, and in the end, she would have left so we were left to assume she'd have second thoughts but then after meeting the family who adopted the baby, she would change her mind. It would have been awful seeing her stupid mug again but at least she wouldn't have lingered like her norm. However, no doubt, Ephram/Amy would have been very delayed, and probably wouldn't have reunited until the middle to end of season 5. Unacceptable.

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It's weird that Berlanti wanted to move on from the Colin storyline and basically get rid of his family, including Laynie, but yet a good deal of Season Two was devoted to Amy mourning Colin and going through a situational depression over it, and we "saw" Colin several times that season, but I hated seeing Laynie written off the show due to this desire on Berlanti's part. Laynie was a great character and Nora Zehetner was a wonderful actress, and we ended up getting Hannah, who was one of the most insipid characters that I've ever seen. I also would have much preferred seeing Amy jealous over Ephram and Laynie's relationship and start to snap out of her depression due to that, and then I would have like to have seen Ephram and Laynie's relationship end amicably (or as amicably as any romantic relationship can end) because they both realized that he loved Amy.
Totally agree. Colin and Julia were powerful characters on the show and maybe even more powerful deceased. We found out Colin wasn't Amy's true love, he wasn't even a real love... he was more like a childhood crush and first guy she even liked. Amy even tells Ephram as much during the flashback scene when they're talking Soulmates in season 4. But Colin, along with Julia, still represented pulling together both families (Browns and Abbott's). There was a deep Spiritual component to the show that was beautiful. It was not remotely necessary to write Laynie off the show. Like we agreed, Hannah replacing her made it all the more frustrating.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:48 PM
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It doesn't bother me that Ephram didn't speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene.
It doesn't bother me either. Ephram had no idea that Amy was going to show up at his apartment building with a grand gesture of a ferris wheel. That's not Ephram's knowing. He could've broken up with her on principle though

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It does bother me that we didn't get to see Ephram speak to Stephanie after the Ferris Wheel scene. I have always wanted to see the after affects of that final scene.
I'm so with you Betty! Ephram was always waiting, ever since the first day the Browns landed in Everwood. He was waiting for Amy to turn his in direction and choose him, it was so obvious. I feel like we were just left hanging with Ephram and Amy getting back together, but nothing else. Sure, it was wonderful, amazing and so many other emotions that happened that were great, but what about life. What about Amy telling Hannah that it finally worked out, she finally was able to get back together with Ephram! I smell slumber party! And Ephram telling Bright he was dating his sister again. What about Ephram telling Andy that he got back together with Amy. But not just got back together, but how Amy orchestrated a Ferris wheel! How amazing would that have been. Ephram opened up to Andy about coming back to Everwood for Amy, knowing he messed things up really bad but knowing he was in love with her. And you know Delia finding out about the whole thing and never letting Ephram live it down that there was a Ferris Wheel involved. So much potentiality and emotionally scarring brother/sister moments out of that!

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I don't believe Ephram had a reason to speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene because he had no reason to be sure that Amy still loved him.
Yes! To Ephram's beliefs, he had no reason to think Amy had any interest in dating him again. He learned the hard way to not hang around Amy Abbot if she didn't want to be with him. Ephram was doing himself a favor.

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So..as far as Ephram was concerned he and Amy were over and although Stephanie could never be Amy...she was cool enough.
Stephanie would always have been the substitute Amy...sadly, but truth.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:13 AM
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I was thinking about how I would have preferred the finale of 4 constructed...

I am sure due to what the CW was pulling at the time, Berlanti didn't have a great deal of time but knowing what we do now, it would have been nice seeing an Ephram/Amy reunion around mid-season 4. That way we would have received half a season with them reunited and together again. I would have loved the series finale revolving around Ephram/Amy taking a trip together, sort of like a callback to when they first got together romantically at the end of season 2 and went to NYC together. Would have loved the symbolism there, and we could have had a going away party for them in the series finale. Maybe they would go overseas together or something like that. At the party Andy could have proposed to Nina (if they also didn't get together sooner) and it would have been a fun way to get both families together under the same roof before the final credits rolled.

Another option would have been a time jump maybe five years into the future and everyone gathering together for Ephram/Amy's wedding.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:33 AM
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I was thinking about how I would have preferred the finale of 4 constructed...

I am sure due to what the CW was pulling at the time, Berlanti didn't have a great deal of time but knowing what we do now, it would have been nice seeing an Ephram/Amy reunion around mid-season 4. That way we would have received half a season with them reunited and together again. I would have loved the series finale revolving around Ephram/Amy taking a trip together, sort of like a callback to when they first got together romantically at the end of season 2 and went to NYC together. Would have loved the symbolism there, and we could have had a going away party for them in the series finale. Maybe they would go overseas together or something like that. At the party Andy could have proposed to Nina (if they also didn't get together sooner) and it would have been a fun way to get both families together under the same roof before the final credits rolled.

Another option would have been a time jump maybe five years into the future and everyone gathering together for Ephram/Amy's wedding.
I completely agree with this Michelle, but I think that the cancellation was a last minute decision to make room for 7th Heaven because what was supposed to be 7th Heaven's Series Finale did good in the ratings, which was an incredibly stupid and short-sighted move on Dawn Ostroff's part, because 7th Heaven's ratings tanked the next season.

I also would have loved to have seen Ephram and Amy reunite earlier in Season Five instead of reuniting in the very last scene in the very last episode of the show. I also would have loved to have seen Andy and Nina reunite because Nina realized that she loved Andy and not Jake, instead of having Jake tell her to go back to Andy while they were waiting to board a plane to California. Yes, the Series finale wrapped up those storylines nicely, but I'll still always feel cheated.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:30 AM
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Me too! Stephanie goes up for woman of the year compared to Madison!
Absolutely!

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Honestly, Jerry, I believe if we would have seen Amy standing out by the Ferris Wheel while Ephram was talking on the phone to Madison I would have needed to check spoilers massively before watching the premiere of season 5 and maybe even waiting on the first few episodes until I realized what was going to happen. I could barely get over that witch Madison basically making fun of Amy in season 2 when she was depressed at the door wanting to speak to Ephram. I thought that was bad enough. But seeing Amy standing by the Ferris Wheel knowing it was going to be ruined due to Madison selfishly returning... I would have had steam coming out of my ears. According to Berlanti, Madison was returning for just a brief moment... a couple to a few episodes and then leave. She was originally going to to tell Ephram she was having second thoughts about the adoption and was thinking about literally taking the child back to raise. Realistic? Yes, this is Madison! She was selfish and never thought of anyone but herself. The only good news is if this would have been the storyline (Berlanti basically spelled it out that it was true) then it would have made her look even worse. Berlanti said 100% she wasn't returning for anything romantic with Ephram, and in the end, she would have left so we were left to assume she'd have second thoughts but then after meeting the family who adopted the baby, she would change her mind. It would have been awful seeing her stupid mug again but at least she wouldn't have lingered like her norm. However, no doubt, Ephram/Amy would have been very delayed, and probably wouldn't have reunited until the middle to end of season 5. Unacceptable.
I would have been livid as well, but I wonder how much the episode would have changed if the show hadn't been cancelled. Would it have run like it did with the exception of the ending where we saw Madison and then we saw Ephram going in to call her while Amy was waiting outside by the Ferris Wheel? If so, I would have been throwing things at the screen.

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Totally agree. Colin and Julia were powerful characters on the show and maybe even more powerful deceased. We found out Colin wasn't Amy's true love, he wasn't even a real love... he was more like a childhood crush and first guy she even liked. Amy even tells Ephram as much during the flashback scene when they're talking Soulmates in season 4. But Colin, along with Julia, still represented pulling together both families (Browns and Abbott's). There was a deep Spiritual component to the show that was beautiful. It was not remotely necessary to write Laynie off the show. Like we agreed, Hannah replacing her made it all the more frustrating.
I was really happy that we got that scene where Amy basically said that her "love" for Colin was more of a concept than an actual feeling and she compared it to wanting to marry Big Bird when she was 6. By the way, I just watched that scene again and I started crying. God I loved that show!

I totally agree that it was completely unnecessary to write Laynie off the show and replace her with Hannah, and it represented another misstep made by Berlanti and the writers.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:16 PM
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I completely agree with this Michelle, but I think that the cancellation was a last minute decision to make room for 7th Heaven because what was supposed to be 7th Heaven's Series Finale did good in the ratings, which was an incredibly stupid and short-sighted move on Dawn Ostroff's part, because 7th Heaven's ratings tanked the next season.
I am so glad Berlanti didn't full trust the CW and what they were going to do. Could you imagine if he would have assumed a season 5 was happening? I bet Andy/Nina never would have gotten together and Ephram/Amy would have been left apart too. That would have been our ending of the series. Berlanti knew he had to give his true ending of the series (EA and AN together romantically) just in case something happened and if a season 5 did transpire, then he would have inserted in that stupid Madison crap at the end. But he planned on the series being over and made sure a proper ending was in place. His gut feeling had to have known we were saying goodbye to the series and the CW was not to be trusted.

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I also would have loved to have seen Ephram and Amy reunite earlier in Season Five instead of reuniting in the very last scene in the very last episode of the show. I also would have loved to have seen Andy and Nina reunite because Nina realized that she loved Andy and not Jake, instead of having Jake tell her to go back to Andy while they were waiting to board a plane to California. Yes, the Series finale wrapped up those storylines nicely, but I'll still always feel cheated.
I am not sure why Nina was so neglected in season 4. We saw her grow and evolve after the disaster known as her marriage with Carl. It was to the point that Nina actually had more power and strength over Andy and not the other way around. She wore the pants just like I assume Julia did too for the most part. But then when she met Jake all her evolution slowly went down the drain and the ultimate frustration was seeing Jake tell her she needed to be with Andy. I will always hate this. The only good news is everyone knew Nina was truly in love with Andy. It's not like her passiveness had the fans questioning who she really wanted to be with. We all knew it was Andy, anyone paying attention to four seasons understood this. Still, it would have been nice seeing Nina take a stand and in charge of her own decision making in the end.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:24 PM
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Absolutely!

I would have been livid as well, but I wonder how much the episode would have changed if the show hadn't been cancelled. Would it have run like it did with the exception of the ending where we saw Madison and then we saw Ephram going in to call her while Amy was waiting outside by the Ferris Wheel? If so, I would have been throwing things at the screen.
Apparently that is precisely what would have transpired. Everything would have been the same, the entire episode, minus that last scene. We would have seen Amy standing at the Ferris Wheel with Ephram dealing with Madison's phone call.

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I was really happy that we got that scene where Amy basically said that her "love" for Colin was more of a concept than an actual feeling and she compared it to wanting to marry Big Bird when she was 6. By the way, I just watched that scene again and I started crying. God I loved that show!
That scene was so beautiful! I remember in the past we had debates on whether Amy truly loved Colin or not. It's almost as if Berlanti read those threads because he made it clear in this flashback Amy did not truly love him. It was a crush, an immature crush.

My heart almost stops when Ephram tells Amy he thinks you can have a Soulmate. I seriously just got goosebumps on my arms thinking about this, typing my thoughts to you. That part is so phenomenal. The connection between Ephram/Amy is off the charts intense/compelling even when Amy's still suffering from depression and they're with the wrong people at the time. They are STILL drawn to each other.

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I totally agree that it was completely unnecessary to write Laynie off the show and replace her with Hannah, and it represented another misstep made by Berlanti and the writers.
Three things will always bother me in an otherwise amazing, magical, off the charts high quality show:

1. Chucking Laynie
2. Madisongate
3. Amandagate

Those three things didn't have to happen. 3 was the result of 2. 1 is just like you said, a misstep. I remember people talking about maybe the actress wanting off the show but there was zero evidence out there about Nora wanting to leave. Nothing. I really do think it was the decision made by TPTB only.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:42 PM
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We never saw Delia actually date anyone since obviously she was a bit too young.

What type of guy do you think would be Delia’s type? Would he be athletic? Musically gifted like her brother? Shy or outgoing? Extroverted or Introverted? What type would you see her dating/ending up with? What do you think?
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:07 AM
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Michelle that's really interesting question, but also quite difficult. I have no idea . What about you?
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:47 PM
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I'm thinking about it too.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:28 PM
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That makes three of us thinking about it! Great question!
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:22 PM
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That makes four of us thinking! Great question!
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:27 AM
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What type of guy do you think would be Delia’s type? Would he be athletic? Musically gifted like her brother? Shy or outgoing? Extroverted or Introverted? What type would you see her dating/ending up with? What do you think?


I was thinking about Delia's dating experience in High School. I am pretty sure that Delia would be involved in some kind of sport in HS. We know she plays hockey and probably softball (she's got to make use of those baseball caps. ) So...being a jock she will be around the jocks and probably be hit on by some of them. Delia does have a soft spot in her heart for jock-types (evident from her feelings about Bright). Especially if they're tall. lol Delia also loved her brother very much and I'm sure has a soft spot for the artistic sensitive type. Now...if she were to meet a sensitive artistic jock...she would be in heaven! Bottom line is I don't believe Delia's preference is limited to one type. She finds the good in all people. After all...she found the good in Magilla! Delia would give any guy a chance (unless he was an evident jerk) and date with an open mind. She would, however, want a guy who is ambitious and works hard...no slackers for her. After all..she is Andy's daughter.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:57 PM
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What type of guy do you think would be Delia’s type? Would he be athletic? Musically gifted like her brother? Shy or outgoing? Extroverted or Introverted? What type would you see her dating/ending up with? What do you think?


I was thinking about Delia's dating experience in High School. I am pretty sure that Delia would be involved in some kind of sport in HS. We know she plays hockey and probably softball (she's got to make use of those baseball caps. ) So...being a jock she will be around the jocks and probably be hit on by some of them. Delia does have a soft spot in her heart for jock-types (evident from her feelings about Bright). Especially if they're tall. lol Delia also loved her brother very much and I'm sure has a soft spot for the artistic sensitive type. Now...if she were to meet a sensitive artistic jock...she would be in heaven! Bottom line is I don't believe Delia's preference is limited to one type. She finds the good in all people. After all...she found the good in Magilla! Delia would give any guy a chance (unless he was an evident jerk) and date with an open mind. She would, however, want a guy who is ambitious and works hard...no slackers for her. After all..she is Andy's daughter.
I love your thoughts, Betty. She did have a little crush on Bright too so we know she probably does like the popular jock type or she certainly did as a little girl. Yes, I think she would have continued playing hockey and good point about softball, maybe softball too! You kind of date in high school who you see/hang out with the most so that would mean Delia spending a lot of time with girls and guys into sports most likely. You are also right that she would want a guy for a long term relationship/marriage who was not a slacker. She's not only Andy's daughter but Julia's too. Those genes are way too strong.
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:07 PM
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Excellent question Michelle. I saw Delia as a very warm, bright, and optimistic young woman who inherited the best qualities of both of her parents. In many ways, she was the opposite of Ephram, who was often sullen and moody, and she didn’t harbor the deep resentment toward her father that Ephram did. It seemed to me that she loved her father unconditionally, and she had an easygoing personality, so I could see her being very popular in High School and she’d probably have a lot of boys interested in her. I could possibly see her being with someone who loved horses like she did, and maybe she would have met someone when she would go out to that ranch to ride her horse. Delia was pretty outgoing from what we saw, so I think she would date someone equally outgoing, but she’d also want someone who had some ambition and who would treat her right. Delia also had a kind and understanding heart, so I think that any guy she ended up with would be lucky to have her in their life.
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