[ds44]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Ephram/Laynie would have been the best choice/storyline. We could have received a drawn out version of what actually happened between them. They could have had fun together. It didn't have to be this serious, dramatic relationship either. It could have been pure fun. We could have seen them go to the movies together and laugh at the lame movie in front of them, a high school sporting event while they made fun of the product on the field, gone on a trip into the mountains, etc. They could have had a blast together. Laynie didn't strike me as the type that was looking for anything heavy either. They could have had a romantic relationship that was casual, fun, without a serious tone. When Berlanti wanted to break them up we could have found out Ephram was still in love with Amy and Laynie was going away to school somewhere (if they were dedicated to bringing in Hannah instead of Laynie ) or she didn't want to be tied down anymore. The break up wouldn't have been messy and they would have remained friends. It would have been perfect.

I would have loved that. The reason I put off watching Chuck for so long was mostly Sara Lancaster. Guilt by association

I also always loved Laynie.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) I would have loved that. The reason I put off watching Chuck for so long was mostly Sara Lancaster. Guilt by association

Me too! A few people kept recommending the show and I lingered because of Sarah Lancaster since she reminded me of Madison way too dang much. I was glad I eventually caved because she actually helped me forget about Madison since I liked her character so much on Chuck.

I also always loved Laynie.

Me too!

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) This was discussed a short time ago on the EA thread... Does it bother anyone that Ephram didn't break up with Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene? I don't mean he should have told Amy to hold on a second in order to run and break up with her... lol ... I just mean in general, ideally do you wish we would have found out Ephram broke up with Stephanie either earlier in the episode or the episode before when he clearly couldn't sleep with her because he was still in love with Amy? Thoughts?

It didn’t bother me at all that Ephram didn’t talk to Stephanie and/or break up with her before the Ferris Wheel scene. We did see that he didn’t sleep with Stephanie after Delia’s Bat Mitzvah party because he still had feelings for Amy and his love for her was rekindled during their dance, but at that point, he had no way of knowing if Amy loved him, and idiot Bright told him to give up on Amy after admonishing him for not sleeping with Stephanie. You could tell that Stephanie’s personality annoyed Ephram because he dropped a few hints about it during the episode, but at that point, he was enjoying a drama-free relationship with a girl who liked him and who was a lot of fun, so there would be no reason for Ephram to talk to Stephanie at that point until Amy declared her love for him in the Ferris Wheel scene.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) It didn’t bother me at all that Ephram didn’t talk to Stephanie and/or break up with her before the Ferris Wheel scene. We did see that he didn’t sleep with Stephanie after Delia’s Bat Mitzvah party because he still had feelings for Amy and his love for her was rekindled during their dance, but at that point, he had no way of knowing if Amy loved him, and idiot Bright told him to give up on Amy after admonishing him for not sleeping with Stephanie. You could tell that Stephanie’s personality annoyed Ephram because he dropped a few hints about it during the episode, but at that point, he was enjoying a drama-free relationship with a girl who liked him and who was a lot of fun, so there would be no reason for Ephram to talk to Stephanie at that point until Amy declared her love for him in the Ferris Wheel scene.

Interesting that you mentioned Stephanie's personality bothered Ephram and he dropped a few hints confirming this reality. I completely agree. I've heard some people say Stephanie was a great girl and nice fit for Ephram during the time period that they dated. Well she was way better than Madison but that's not saying a lot since Madison was the worst, lol. But like you said, her personality was not ideal for Ephram and we witnessed as much. Not many mention this fact at all. Ephram not only wasn't in love with Stephanie but he did have issues with her personality as well, that is totally correct. Even if Amy didn't exist I couldn't see Ephram ever settling down with Stephanie because their personalities were oil and water. He meshed perfectly with Laynie because they both had the dry, sarcastic wit and thought the same in many ways. Stephanie was a dud by comparison. Ephram/Amy didn't have similar personalities but they still soaked up and adored their differences, not to mention their intense connection.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Interesting that you mentioned Stephanie's personality bothered Ephram and he dropped a few hints confirming this reality. I completely agree. I've heard some people say Stephanie was a great girl and nice fit for Ephram during the time period that they dated. Well she was way better than Madison but that's not saying a lot since Madison was the worst, lol. But like you said, her personality was not ideal for Ephram and we witnessed as much. Not many mention this fact at all. Ephram not only wasn't in love with Stephanie but he did have issues with her personality as well, that is totally correct. Even if Amy didn't exist I couldn't see Ephram ever settling down with Stephanie because their personalities were oil and water. He meshed perfectly with Laynie because they both had the dry, sarcastic wit and thought the same in many ways. Stephanie was a dud by comparison. Ephram/Amy didn't have similar personalities but they still soaked up and adored their differences, not to mention their intense connection.

I found Stephanie to have an irritating personality, and she seemed sort of pushy and she tried to act like she knew as much about Ephram's family as Amy did at Delia's Bat Mitzvah, when she had barely started going out with him. I agree that they wouldn't have lasted long even if Amy wasn't in the picture. I also agree that Ephram and Laynie meshed perfectly and I'll always regret that they didn't pursue a romantic relationship in Season Two and that we got stuck with Ephram and Madison instead.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I found Stephanie to have an irritating personality, and she seemed sort of pushy and she tried to act like she knew as much about Ephram's family as Amy did at Delia's Bat Mitzvah, when she had barely started going out with him. I agree that they wouldn't have lasted long even if Amy wasn't in the picture. I also agree that Ephram and Laynie meshed perfectly and I'll always regret that they didn't pursue a romantic relationship in Season Two and that we got stuck with Ephram and Madison instead.

I agree. I've never truly vocalized my feelings on Stephanie because I figured I was just an Ephram/Amy homer and totally biased, lol. It's refreshing hearing you state your thoughts because they are mine as well. Ephram/Laynie would have worked perfectly in season 2. Their break up would have been fitting as well... realizing Ephram was still in love with Amy even if he cared a lot of Laynie and Laynie stating she didn't want anything serious but their time together was great and a lot of fun. It would have been perfect! So bummed they didn't go there. I believe Berlanti just wanted to get rid of anyone and everything related to Colin after he passed away. He didn't want any ties to Colin which is really weird. Amy, Bright and even Andy and Ephram would always be tied to Colin. He couldn't erase Colin even if some of us didn't necessarily adore the character. Removing Laynie was completely unnecessary. I will forever despise this move, especially since we were given Hannah as a replacement and I'm sorry, but Hannah was a terrible replacement... borderline Mary Sue that royally got on my nerves.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I agree. I've never truly vocalized my feelings on Stephanie because I figured I was just an Ephram/Amy homer and totally biased, lol. It's refreshing hearing you state your thoughts because they are mine as well. Ephram/Laynie would have worked perfectly in season 2. Their break up would have been fitting as well... realizing Ephram was still in love with Amy even if he cared a lot of Laynie and Laynie stating she didn't want anything serious but their time together was great and a lot of fun. It would have been perfect! So bummed they didn't go there. I believe Berlanti just wanted to get rid of anyone and everything related to Colin after he passed away. He didn't want any ties to Colin which is really weird. Amy, Bright and even Andy and Ephram would always be tied to Colin. He couldn't erase Colin even if some of us didn't necessarily adore the character. Removing Laynie was completely unnecessary. I will forever despise this move, especially since we were given Hannah as a replacement and I'm sorry, but Hannah was a terrible replacement... borderline Mary Sue that royally got on my nerves.

It's so unusual for us to agree! I also didn't like how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy when Amy tried to talk to her about her feelings for Ephram, and I just found Stephanie irritating in general. If we had gotten another season of the show, I wonder if she would have been in the picture at all or if they would have just had that Madison storyline?

I'll never understand why Berlanti basically erased Colin's family from the show after his death. Laynie was a wonderful character, because she was Amy's only true friend (I don't count those shallow witches that Amy knew in High School as her true friends), and her and Ephram definitely clicked, and it would have been intriguing to see how Amy would react if she saw her best friend and the boy she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved in a romantic relationship. That would have been so much more intriguing and interesting than seeing Ephram and Madison and having dull as dishwater Hannah take Laynie's place as Amy's best friend and Bright's love interest.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) It's so unusual for us to agree!

Oh yes, very unusual. In fact... have we ever agreed on anything, past and present?

I also didn't like how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy when Amy tried to talk to her about her feelings for Ephram, and I just found Stephanie irritating in general. If we had gotten another season of the show, I wonder if she would have been in the picture at all or if they would have just had that Madison storyline?

I hated how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy was well. It reminded me of when Madison was the babysitter supposedly doing her job (but seducing Ephram instead) and Amy came to the door and Madison treated her horribly (even though sadly Amy was too depressed to pick up on Madison's disgusting behavior). I think both Stephanie and Madison felt the connection between Ephram/Amy and all they could do was strut confidence and arrogance in denial. Oh well, the joke was on them.

Stephanie really irritated me too. I also wonder if Stephanie would have stuck around once stupid Madison, the character who would never go away, would have returned. My guess is no. We would have received a horrible ending with Amy standing there waiting to express her feelings for Ephram right in front of a Ferris Wheel with Madison's return about the baby and the phone call spoiling everything. I just think there would be too much swirling around if both Stephanie and Madison were around, plus Ephram/Amy in limbo too. Madison wouldn't have been back for anything romantic (the illegal Ephram/Madison ship had sailed long before this) but it would have been overkill. I wonder if Stephanie even knew Ephram impregnated Madison and had a kid out there Madison went behind his back and gave up for adoption without telling him until it was too late. Maybe that's how they'd get rid of Stephanie. She'd find out the truth and either say goodbye, you never told me, or she'd say Ephram had a lot on his plate and to call when he figured it out, something like that. Then he'd either never call or call and tell her goodbye. LOL

I'll never understand why Berlanti basically erased Colin's family from the show after his death. Laynie was a wonderful character, because she was Amy's only true friend (I don't count those shallow witches that Amy knew in High School as her true friends), and her and Ephram definitely clicked, and it would have been intriguing to see how Amy would react if she saw her best friend and the boy she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved in a romantic relationship. That would have been so much more intriguing and interesting than seeing Ephram and Madison and having dull as dishwater Hannah take Laynie's place as Amy's best friend and Bright's love interest.

I don't get it either. Berlanti even started the process of chucking Colin's family by showing his parents in denial about his serious brain condition and then after he passed, suddenly Colin's dad is a heavy alcoholic who is unreachable, Laynie is basically distant from her parents. Immediately Berlanti wanted them viewed in a negative light almost. It was really strange and unnecessary. Laynie should have stayed. You are right, she was Amy's only true friend. It always bothered me that we initially received this close friendship between Bright/Colin/Amy as a trio when Laynie must have been around as well considering how close Amy and Laynie were. It was just dumb how Laynie was thrown aside all the time in key moments she should have been around. Yes, we already received a preview of jealous Amy in season 1 when Ephram/Laynie started mildly dating. Amy was fuming with jealousy hearing about them, even watching them ice skating. Amy took issue with their relationship then. If Ephram/Laynie would have dated in season 2, we could have seen a very depressed Amy over Colin's death but eventually very concerned over what was happening between Ephram/Laynie. It could have been the driving force behind Amy snapping back to reality, getting through her situational depression... not wanting to lose Ephram romantically... the jealousy, her intense feelings for Ephram being the driving force behind snapping the situational depression and wanting to live again. I always felt that scene when "Colin" shows up as a powerful one which allowed Amy to finally move on. A part of me would have preferred seeing Ephram get Amy out of her dark times. He was her reality, her future and it would have been awesome seeing Ephram reach her even in the darkest of times. Essentially we received this because Amy was ready to get back on track with Ephram once we removed the situational depression but I would have preferred seeing more Ephram/Amy interaction before this point. Instead, we had to endure Amy/Tommy and Ephram/Madison which was annoying and unnecessary.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Oh yes, very unusual. In fact... have we ever agreed on anything, past and present?

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I hated how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy was well. It reminded me of when Madison was the babysitter supposedly doing her job (but seducing Ephram instead) and Amy came to the door and Madison treated her horribly (even though sadly Amy was too depressed to pick up on Madison's disgusting behavior). I think both Stephanie and Madison felt the connection between Ephram/Amy and all they could do was strut confidence and arrogance in denial. Oh well, the joke was on them.

I completely agree, but I'd take Stephanie over Madison every day of the week.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Stephanie really irritated me too. I also wonder if Stephanie would have stuck around once stupid Madison, the character who would never go away, would have returned. My guess is no. We would have received a horrible ending with Amy standing there waiting to express her feelings for Ephram right in front of a Ferris Wheel with Madison's return about the baby and the phone call spoiling everything. I just think there would be too much swirling around if both Stephanie and Madison were around, plus Ephram/Amy in limbo too. Madison wouldn't have been back for anything romantic (the illegal Ephram/Madison ship had sailed long before this) but it would have been overkill. I wonder if Stephanie even knew Ephram impregnated Madison and had a kid out there Madison went behind his back and gave up for adoption without telling him until it was too late. Maybe that's how they'd get rid of Stephanie. She'd find out the truth and either say goodbye, you never told me, or she'd say Ephram had a lot on his plate and to call when he figured it out, something like that. Then he'd either never call or call and tell her goodbye. LOL

It didn't appear that Ephram and Stephanie had a very deep relationship, so I'd doubt that he would have told her about Madison and the baby at the point we saw them. If Madison came back and they pursued this "get the baby back" or "find the baby" storyline, or whatever they planned to do I would envision what you said Michelle that once Ephram told Stephanie about Madison and the baby either Stephanie or Ephram would come to the conclusion that he had a lot on his plate at the moment and she'd be out of the picture. I would have hated whatever storyline they were planning with Madison, and I especially would have hated seeing Amy stand out by the Ferris Wheel by herself while Ephram talked to Madison, and I would have hated seeing Amy and Ephram kept apart again due to that witch.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I don't get it either. Berlanti even started the process of chucking Colin's family by showing his parents in denial about his serious brain condition and then after he passed, suddenly Colin's dad is a heavy alcoholic who is unreachable, Laynie is basically distant from her parents. Immediately Berlanti wanted them viewed in a negative light almost. It was really strange and unnecessary. Laynie should have stayed. You are right, she was Amy's only true friend. It always bothered me that we initially received this close friendship between Bright/Colin/Amy as a trio when Laynie must have been around as well considering how close Amy and Laynie were. It was just dumb how Laynie was thrown aside all the time in key moments she should have been around. Yes, we already received a preview of jealous Amy in season 1 when Ephram/Laynie started mildly dating. Amy was fuming with jealousy hearing about them, even watching them ice skating. Amy took issue with their relationship then. If Ephram/Laynie would have dated in season 2, we could have seen a very depressed Amy over Colin's death but eventually very concerned over what was happening between Ephram/Laynie. It could have been the driving force behind Amy snapping back to reality, getting through her situational depression... not wanting to lose Ephram romantically... the jealousy, her intense feelings for Ephram being the driving force behind snapping the situational depression and wanting to live again. I always felt that scene when "Colin" shows up as a powerful one which allowed Amy to finally move on. A part of me would have preferred seeing Ephram get Amy out of her dark times. He was her reality, her future and it would have been awesome seeing Ephram reach her even in the darkest of times. Essentially we received this because Amy was ready to get back on track with Ephram once we removed the situational depression but I would have preferred seeing more Ephram/Amy interaction before this point. Instead, we had to endure Amy/Tommy and Ephram/Madison which was annoying and unnecessary.

It's weird that Berlanti wanted to move on from the Colin storyline and basically get rid of his family, including Laynie, but yet a good deal of Season Two was devoted to Amy mourning Colin and going through a situational depression over it, and we "saw" Colin several times that season, but I hated seeing Laynie written off the show due to this desire on Berlanti's part. Laynie was a great character and Nora Zehetner was a wonderful actress, and we ended up getting Hannah, who was one of the most insipid characters that I've ever seen. I also would have much preferred seeing Amy jealous over Ephram and Laynie's relationship and start to snap out of her depression due to that, and then I would have like to have seen Ephram and Laynie's relationship end amicably (or as amicably as any romantic relationship can end) because they both realized that he loved Amy.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I completely agree, but I'd take Stephanie over Madison every day of the week.

Me too! Stephanie goes up for woman of the year compared to Madison!

It didn't appear that Ephram and Stephanie had a very deep relationship, so I'd doubt that he would have told her about Madison and the baby at the point we saw them. If Madison came back and they pursued this "get the baby back" or "find the baby" storyline, or whatever they planned to do I would envision what you said Michelle that once Ephram told Stephanie about Madison and the baby either Stephanie or Ephram would come to the conclusion that he had a lot on his plate at the moment and she'd be out of the picture. I would have hated whatever storyline they were planning with Madison, and I especially would have hated seeing Amy stand out by the Ferris Wheel by herself while Ephram talked to Madison, and I would have hated seeing Amy and Ephram kept apart again due to that witch.

Honestly, Jerry, I believe if we would have seen Amy standing out by the Ferris Wheel while Ephram was talking on the phone to Madison I would have needed to check spoilers massively before watching the premiere of season 5 and maybe even waiting on the first few episodes until I realized what was going to happen. I could barely get over that witch Madison basically making fun of Amy in season 2 when she was depressed at the door wanting to speak to Ephram. I thought that was bad enough. But seeing Amy standing by the Ferris Wheel knowing it was going to be ruined due to Madison selfishly returning... I would have had steam coming out of my ears. According to Berlanti, Madison was returning for just a brief moment... a couple to a few episodes and then leave. She was originally going to to tell Ephram she was having second thoughts about the adoption and was thinking about literally taking the child back to raise. Realistic? Yes, this is Madison! She was selfish and never thought of anyone but herself. The only good news is if this would have been the storyline (Berlanti basically spelled it out that it was true) then it would have made her look even worse. Berlanti said 100% she wasn't returning for anything romantic with Ephram, and in the end, she would have left so we were left to assume she'd have second thoughts but then after meeting the family who adopted the baby, she would change her mind. It would have been awful seeing her stupid mug again but at least she wouldn't have lingered like her norm. However, no doubt, Ephram/Amy would have been very delayed, and probably wouldn't have reunited until the middle to end of season 5. Unacceptable.

It's weird that Berlanti wanted to move on from the Colin storyline and basically get rid of his family, including Laynie, but yet a good deal of Season Two was devoted to Amy mourning Colin and going through a situational depression over it, and we "saw" Colin several times that season, but I hated seeing Laynie written off the show due to this desire on Berlanti's part. Laynie was a great character and Nora Zehetner was a wonderful actress, and we ended up getting Hannah, who was one of the most insipid characters that I've ever seen. I also would have much preferred seeing Amy jealous over Ephram and Laynie's relationship and start to snap out of her depression due to that, and then I would have like to have seen Ephram and Laynie's relationship end amicably (or as amicably as any romantic relationship can end) because they both realized that he loved Amy.

Totally agree. Colin and Julia were powerful characters on the show and maybe even more powerful deceased. We found out Colin wasn't Amy's true love, he wasn't even a real love... he was more like a childhood crush and first guy she even liked. Amy even tells Ephram as much during the flashback scene when they're talking Soulmates in season 4. But Colin, along with Julia, still represented pulling together both families (Browns and Abbott's). There was a deep Spiritual component to the show that was beautiful. It was not remotely necessary to write Laynie off the show. Like we agreed, Hannah replacing her made it all the more frustrating.

[break the window]

Originally Posted by Betty (View Post) It doesn't bother me that Ephram didn't speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene.

It doesn't bother me either. Ephram had no idea that Amy was going to show up at his apartment building with a grand gesture of a ferris wheel. That's not Ephram's knowing. He could've broken up with her on principle though

Originally Posted by Betty (View Post) It does bother me that we didn't get to see Ephram speak to Stephanie after the Ferris Wheel scene. I have always wanted to see the after affects of that final scene.

I'm so with you Betty! Ephram was always waiting, ever since the first day the Browns landed in Everwood. He was waiting for Amy to turn his in direction and choose him, it was so obvious. I feel like we were just left hanging with Ephram and Amy getting back together, but nothing else. Sure, it was wonderful, amazing and so many other emotions that happened that were great, but what about life. What about Amy telling Hannah that it finally worked out, she finally was able to get back together with Ephram! I smell slumber party! And Ephram telling Bright he was dating his sister again. What about Ephram telling Andy that he got back together with Amy. But not just got back together, but how Amy orchestrated a Ferris wheel! How amazing would that have been. Ephram opened up to Andy about coming back to Everwood for Amy, knowing he messed things up really bad but knowing he was in love with her. And you know Delia finding out about the whole thing and never letting Ephram live it down that there was a Ferris Wheel involved. So much potentiality and emotionally scarring brother/sister moments out of that!

Originally Posted by Betty (View Post) I don't believe Ephram had a reason to speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene because he had no reason to be sure that Amy still loved him.

Yes! To Ephram's beliefs, he had no reason to think Amy had any interest in dating him again. He learned the hard way to not hang around Amy Abbot if she didn't want to be with him. Ephram was doing himself a favor.

Originally Posted by Betty (View Post) So..as far as Ephram was concerned he and Amy were over and although Stephanie could never be Amy...she was cool enough.

Stephanie would always have been the substitute Amy...sadly, but truth.

[jediwands]

I was thinking about how I would have preferred the finale of 4 constructed...

I am sure due to what the CW was pulling at the time, Berlanti didn't have a great deal of time but knowing what we do now, it would have been nice seeing an Ephram/Amy reunion around mid-season 4. That way we would have received half a season with them reunited and together again. I would have loved the series finale revolving around Ephram/Amy taking a trip together, sort of like a callback to when they first got together romantically at the end of season 2 and went to NYC together. Would have loved the symbolism there, and we could have had a going away party for them in the series finale. Maybe they would go overseas together or something like that. At the party Andy could have proposed to Nina (if they also didn't get together sooner) and it would have been a fun way to get both families together under the same roof before the final credits rolled.

Another option would have been a time jump maybe five years into the future and everyone gathering together for Ephram/Amy's wedding.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I was thinking about how I would have preferred the finale of 4 constructed... I am sure due to what the CW was pulling at the time, Berlanti didn't have a great deal of time but knowing what we do now, it would have been nice seeing an Ephram/Amy reunion around mid-season 4. That way we would have received half a season with them reunited and together again. I would have loved the series finale revolving around Ephram/Amy taking a trip together, sort of like a callback to when they first got together romantically at the end of season 2 and went to NYC together. Would have loved the symbolism there, and we could have had a going away party for them in the series finale. Maybe they would go overseas together or something like that. At the party Andy could have proposed to Nina (if they also didn't get together sooner) and it would have been a fun way to get both families together under the same roof before the final credits rolled. Another option would have been a time jump maybe five years into the future and everyone gathering together for Ephram/Amy's wedding.

I completely agree with this Michelle, but I think that the cancellation was a last minute decision to make room for 7th Heaven because what was supposed to be 7th Heaven's Series Finale did good in the ratings, which was an incredibly stupid and short-sighted move on Dawn Ostroff's part, because 7th Heaven's ratings tanked the next season.

I also would have loved to have seen Ephram and Amy reunite earlier in Season Five instead of reuniting in the very last scene in the very last episode of the show. I also would have loved to have seen Andy and Nina reunite because Nina realized that she loved Andy and not Jake, instead of having Jake tell her to go back to Andy while they were waiting to board a plane to California. Yes, the Series finale wrapped up those storylines nicely, but I'll still always feel cheated.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Me too! Stephanie goes up for woman of the year compared to Madison!

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Honestly, Jerry, I believe if we would have seen Amy standing out by the Ferris Wheel while Ephram was talking on the phone to Madison I would have needed to check spoilers massively before watching the premiere of season 5 and maybe even waiting on the first few episodes until I realized what was going to happen. I could barely get over that witch Madison basically making fun of Amy in season 2 when she was depressed at the door wanting to speak to Ephram. I thought that was bad enough. But seeing Amy standing by the Ferris Wheel knowing it was going to be ruined due to Madison selfishly returning... I would have had steam coming out of my ears. According to Berlanti, Madison was returning for just a brief moment... a couple to a few episodes and then leave. She was originally going to to tell Ephram she was having second thoughts about the adoption and was thinking about literally taking the child back to raise. Realistic? Yes, this is Madison! She was selfish and never thought of anyone but herself. The only good news is if this would have been the storyline (Berlanti basically spelled it out that it was true) then it would have made her look even worse. Berlanti said 100% she wasn't returning for anything romantic with Ephram, and in the end, she would have left so we were left to assume she'd have second thoughts but then after meeting the family who adopted the baby, she would change her mind. It would have been awful seeing her stupid mug again but at least she wouldn't have lingered like her norm. However, no doubt, Ephram/Amy would have been very delayed, and probably wouldn't have reunited until the middle to end of season 5. Unacceptable.

I would have been livid as well, but I wonder how much the episode would have changed if the show hadn't been cancelled. Would it have run like it did with the exception of the ending where we saw Madison and then we saw Ephram going in to call her while Amy was waiting outside by the Ferris Wheel? If so, I would have been throwing things at the screen.

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Totally agree. Colin and Julia were powerful characters on the show and maybe even more powerful deceased. We found out Colin wasn't Amy's true love, he wasn't even a real love... he was more like a childhood crush and first guy she even liked. Amy even tells Ephram as much during the flashback scene when they're talking Soulmates in season 4. But Colin, along with Julia, still represented pulling together both families (Browns and Abbott's). There was a deep Spiritual component to the show that was beautiful. It was not remotely necessary to write Laynie off the show. Like we agreed, Hannah replacing her made it all the more frustrating.

I was really happy that we got that scene where Amy basically said that her "love" for Colin was more of a concept than an actual feeling and she compared it to wanting to marry Big Bird when she was 6. By the way, I just watched that scene again and I started crying. God I loved that show!

I totally agree that it was completely unnecessary to write Laynie off the show and replace her with Hannah, and it represented another misstep made by Berlanti and the writers.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I completely agree with this Michelle, but I think that the cancellation was a last minute decision to make room for 7th Heaven because what was supposed to be 7th Heaven's Series Finale did good in the ratings, which was an incredibly stupid and short-sighted move on Dawn Ostroff's part, because 7th Heaven's ratings tanked the next season.

I am so glad Berlanti didn't full trust the CW and what they were going to do. Could you imagine if he would have assumed a season 5 was happening? I bet Andy/Nina never would have gotten together and Ephram/Amy would have been left apart too. That would have been our ending of the series. Berlanti knew he had to give his true ending of the series (EA and AN together romantically) just in case something happened and if a season 5 did transpire, then he would have inserted in that stupid Madison crap at the end. But he planned on the series being over and made sure a proper ending was in place. His gut feeling had to have known we were saying goodbye to the series and the CW was not to be trusted.

I also would have loved to have seen Ephram and Amy reunite earlier in Season Five instead of reuniting in the very last scene in the very last episode of the show. I also would have loved to have seen Andy and Nina reunite because Nina realized that she loved Andy and not Jake, instead of having Jake tell her to go back to Andy while they were waiting to board a plane to California. Yes, the Series finale wrapped up those storylines nicely, but I'll still always feel cheated.

I am not sure why Nina was so neglected in season 4. We saw her grow and evolve after the disaster known as her marriage with Carl. It was to the point that Nina actually had more power and strength over Andy and not the other way around. She wore the pants just like I assume Julia did too for the most part. But then when she met Jake all her evolution slowly went down the drain and the ultimate frustration was seeing Jake tell her she needed to be with Andy. I will always hate this. The only good news is everyone knew Nina was truly in love with Andy. It's not like her passiveness had the fans questioning who she really wanted to be with. We all knew it was Andy, anyone paying attention to four seasons understood this. Still, it would have been nice seeing Nina take a stand and in charge of her own decision making in the end.