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Old 09-22-2017, 08:00 AM
  #31
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I agree that the Madison storyline should not have happened. I wish it was an Ephram/Laynie storyline instead. Ephram did need something for himself season 2..something to build up his confidence while pining for Amy and not being able to have her. Laynie would have been perfect for this, and not such an offensive character. She would have made so much more sense.
Ephram/Laynie would have been the best choice/storyline. We could have received a drawn out version of what actually happened between them. They could have had fun together. It didn't have to be this serious, dramatic relationship either. It could have been pure fun. We could have seen them go to the movies together and laugh at the lame movie in front of them, a high school sporting event while they made fun of the product on the field, gone on a trip into the mountains, etc. They could have had a blast together. Laynie didn't strike me as the type that was looking for anything heavy either. They could have had a romantic relationship that was casual, fun, without a serious tone. When Berlanti wanted to break them up we could have found out Ephram was still in love with Amy and Laynie was going away to school somewhere (if they were dedicated to bringing in Hannah instead of Laynie ) or she didn't want to be tied down anymore. The break up wouldn't have been messy and they would have remained friends. It would have been perfect.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:11 AM
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Ephram/Laynie would have been the best choice/storyline. We could have received a drawn out version of what actually happened between them. They could have had fun together. It didn't have to be this serious, dramatic relationship either. It could have been pure fun. We could have seen them go to the movies together and laugh at the lame movie in front of them, a high school sporting event while they made fun of the product on the field, gone on a trip into the mountains, etc. They could have had a blast together. Laynie didn't strike me as the type that was looking for anything heavy either. They could have had a romantic relationship that was casual, fun, without a serious tone. When Berlanti wanted to break them up we could have found out Ephram was still in love with Amy and Laynie was going away to school somewhere (if they were dedicated to bringing in Hannah instead of Laynie ) or she didn't want to be tied down anymore. The break up wouldn't have been messy and they would have remained friends. It would have been perfect.
I completely agree with what you and Betty are saying here Michelle. I liked Laynie a lot, and what I really liked about her was how she liked and appreciated Ephram right from the beginning, unlike Amy's other friends and to a lesser degree Amy herself. I think that they could have had a great relationship and he could have helped her get over Colin's death, and it would have been intriguing for Amy to see her best friend in a romantic relationship with the boy that she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved, and there was so much untapped potential in an Ephram and Laynie romantic relationship. It would also have been intriguing to see Ephram having torn feelings between a wonderful girl (Laynie) who really cared for him and that he had a great relationship with and the girl he loved from the moment he met her (Amy). I always felt that Hannah was poor substitute as a best friend for Amy because she was as dull as dishwater and Amy pretty much forced herself on Hannah as her new best friend, just like Hannah was forced on us, the audience, as Amy's new best friend and Bright's mismatched love interest, so I would have much preferred that Laynie stay on the show rather than getting Madison and Hannah.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:48 PM
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I completely agree with what you and Betty are saying here Michelle. I liked Laynie a lot, and what I really liked about her was how she liked and appreciated Ephram right from the beginning, unlike Amy's other friends and to a lesser degree Amy herself. I think that they could have had a great relationship and he could have helped her get over Colin's death, and it would have been intriguing for Amy to see her best friend in a romantic relationship with the boy that she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved, and there was so much untapped potential in an Ephram and Laynie romantic relationship. It would also have been intriguing to see Ephram having torn feelings between a wonderful girl (Laynie) who really cared for him and that he had a great relationship with and the girl he loved from the moment he met her (Amy). I always felt that Hannah was poor substitute as a best friend for Amy because she was as dull as dishwater and Amy pretty much forced herself on Hannah as her new best friend, just like Hannah was forced on us, the audience, as Amy's new best friend and Bright's mismatched love interest, so I would have much preferred that Laynie stay on the show rather than getting Madison and Hannah.
Agreed so much on Laynie.

Hannah was dull as dishwater... So true, Jerry. I know back in the day there were a lot of fans who had severe issues with Hannah. Then on the board some newer posters liked Hannah so the ones who had a problem with Hannah kind of toned it down out of respect for the ones that appreciated Hannah. This board really has always been mature, even adjusting to the tone of the board and opinions of our posters. Well those Hannah stans are gone now so I don't have to be as politically correct. lol

I could never relate to Hannah. It was more than obvious Hannah was a version of Rina and as a result, the character was forced on us while Laynie was out the window. I will forever be irritated that Hannah basically dominated the screen in season 3 while Ephram/Amy and their romantic relationship were shoved aside. Rina was essentially writing aspects of her childhood through the character of Hannah and everything else became secondary in season 3 while she was the showrunner. It always made me a bit uncomfortable because it wasn't natural at all. I also found it unrealistic that Amy and Hannah would become BFF (with Amy forgetting about Laynie) let alone Bright falling in love with Hannah too. It was all so unrealistic to me and I could not fully digest the situation.

Laynie never should been shoved aside. She should have been around in seasons 3/4. Madison clearly was the biggest mistake of the series. Her mug shouldn't have entered the screen for one second. I would say Amanda ever entering the picture was a minor mistake and even Hannah entering the screen was another minor mistake I believe as well because Laynie should have remained. She was a big part of the series and I will forever be irritated that she was thrown away for a very boring, Mary Sue in Hannah.

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Old 09-30-2017, 02:20 PM
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This was discussed a short time ago on the EA thread...

Does it bother anyone that Ephram didn't break up with Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene?

I don't mean he should have told Amy to hold on a second in order to run and break up with her... lol ... I just mean in general, ideally do you wish we would have found out Ephram broke up with Stephanie either earlier in the episode or the episode before when he clearly couldn't sleep with her because he was still in love with Amy?

Thoughts?
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:29 PM
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Great question, Michelle.

It doesn't bother me that Ephram didn't speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene. It does bother me that we didn't get to see Ephram speak to Stephanie after the Ferris Wheel scene. I have always wanted to see the after affects of that final scene.
I don't believe Ephram had a reason to speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene because he had no reason to be sure that Amy still loved him.
Ephram felt that Amy and he had a connection after that dance at the Bat Mitsvah, but Bright nixed that idea. So..as far as Ephram was concerned he and Amy were over and although Stephanie could never be Amy...she was cool enough.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:28 PM
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Great question, Michelle.


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It doesn't bother me that Ephram didn't speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene. It does bother me that we didn't get to see Ephram speak to Stephanie after the Ferris Wheel scene. I have always wanted to see the after affects of that final scene.
So true! So bummed we didn't see what came next... it was so beautiful watching them embrace then the fade to the sky and town. I loved that they received the final scene and it was beautiful but like you, I really wish we would have seen the time period right after they took the Ferris Wheel ride.

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I don't believe Ephram had a reason to speak to Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene because he had no reason to be sure that Amy still loved him.
Ephram felt that Amy and he had a connection after that dance at the Bat Mitsvah, but Bright nixed that idea. So..as far as Ephram was concerned he and Amy were over and although Stephanie could never be Amy...she was cool enough.
Bright and his advice. I think Ephram deep down knew on some level there was slight hope because he couldn't sleep with Stephanie. He was pushing her away for a reason. But I bet he listened to Bright and just assumed he shouldn't let go of Stephanie because she was decent, nice and he enjoyed hanging out with her. He just wasn't ready to take it to the next step and we know it was because of Amy. She was inserted deep inside his heart and he couldn't change this fact.

I just wish for storyline purposes Berlanti would have had Ephram/Stephanie break up before Ephram/Amy reunited. Or maybe they could have gone on a break or were able to see other people. Stephanie might have picked up on Ephram being hesitant and maybe she would suggest they take some time apart or they kept things casual. It wasn't necessary and didn't remotely take away from the Ferris Wheel scene of course. It's just I've read many comments from people saying they wondered when Ephram called Stephanie since she waiting for him to show up.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:29 PM
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Ephram/Laynie would have been the best choice/storyline. We could have received a drawn out version of what actually happened between them. They could have had fun together. It didn't have to be this serious, dramatic relationship either. It could have been pure fun. We could have seen them go to the movies together and laugh at the lame movie in front of them, a high school sporting event while they made fun of the product on the field, gone on a trip into the mountains, etc. They could have had a blast together. Laynie didn't strike me as the type that was looking for anything heavy either. They could have had a romantic relationship that was casual, fun, without a serious tone. When Berlanti wanted to break them up we could have found out Ephram was still in love with Amy and Laynie was going away to school somewhere (if they were dedicated to bringing in Hannah instead of Laynie ) or she didn't want to be tied down anymore. The break up wouldn't have been messy and they would have remained friends. It would have been perfect.
I would have loved that. The reason I put off watching Chuck for so long was mostly Sara Lancaster. Guilt by association

I also always loved Laynie.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:33 PM
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I would have loved that. The reason I put off watching Chuck for so long was mostly Sara Lancaster. Guilt by association
Me too! A few people kept recommending the show and I lingered because of Sarah Lancaster since she reminded me of Madison way too dang much. I was glad I eventually caved because she actually helped me forget about Madison since I liked her character so much on Chuck.

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I also always loved Laynie.
Me too!
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:56 PM
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This was discussed a short time ago on the EA thread...

Does it bother anyone that Ephram didn't break up with Stephanie before the Ferris Wheel scene?

I don't mean he should have told Amy to hold on a second in order to run and break up with her... lol ... I just mean in general, ideally do you wish we would have found out Ephram broke up with Stephanie either earlier in the episode or the episode before when he clearly couldn't sleep with her because he was still in love with Amy?

Thoughts?
It didn’t bother me at all that Ephram didn’t talk to Stephanie and/or break up with her before the Ferris Wheel scene. We did see that he didn’t sleep with Stephanie after Delia’s Bat Mitzvah party because he still had feelings for Amy and his love for her was rekindled during their dance, but at that point, he had no way of knowing if Amy loved him, and idiot Bright told him to give up on Amy after admonishing him for not sleeping with Stephanie. You could tell that Stephanie’s personality annoyed Ephram because he dropped a few hints about it during the episode, but at that point, he was enjoying a drama-free relationship with a girl who liked him and who was a lot of fun, so there would be no reason for Ephram to talk to Stephanie at that point until Amy declared her love for him in the Ferris Wheel scene.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:36 AM
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It didn’t bother me at all that Ephram didn’t talk to Stephanie and/or break up with her before the Ferris Wheel scene. We did see that he didn’t sleep with Stephanie after Delia’s Bat Mitzvah party because he still had feelings for Amy and his love for her was rekindled during their dance, but at that point, he had no way of knowing if Amy loved him, and idiot Bright told him to give up on Amy after admonishing him for not sleeping with Stephanie. You could tell that Stephanie’s personality annoyed Ephram because he dropped a few hints about it during the episode, but at that point, he was enjoying a drama-free relationship with a girl who liked him and who was a lot of fun, so there would be no reason for Ephram to talk to Stephanie at that point until Amy declared her love for him in the Ferris Wheel scene.
Interesting that you mentioned Stephanie's personality bothered Ephram and he dropped a few hints confirming this reality. I completely agree. I've heard some people say Stephanie was a great girl and nice fit for Ephram during the time period that they dated. Well she was way better than Madison but that's not saying a lot since Madison was the worst, lol. But like you said, her personality was not ideal for Ephram and we witnessed as much. Not many mention this fact at all. Ephram not only wasn't in love with Stephanie but he did have issues with her personality as well, that is totally correct. Even if Amy didn't exist I couldn't see Ephram ever settling down with Stephanie because their personalities were oil and water. He meshed perfectly with Laynie because they both had the dry, sarcastic wit and thought the same in many ways. Stephanie was a dud by comparison. Ephram/Amy didn't have similar personalities but they still soaked up and adored their differences, not to mention their intense connection.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:47 AM
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Interesting that you mentioned Stephanie's personality bothered Ephram and he dropped a few hints confirming this reality. I completely agree. I've heard some people say Stephanie was a great girl and nice fit for Ephram during the time period that they dated. Well she was way better than Madison but that's not saying a lot since Madison was the worst, lol. But like you said, her personality was not ideal for Ephram and we witnessed as much. Not many mention this fact at all. Ephram not only wasn't in love with Stephanie but he did have issues with her personality as well, that is totally correct. Even if Amy didn't exist I couldn't see Ephram ever settling down with Stephanie because their personalities were oil and water. He meshed perfectly with Laynie because they both had the dry, sarcastic wit and thought the same in many ways. Stephanie was a dud by comparison. Ephram/Amy didn't have similar personalities but they still soaked up and adored their differences, not to mention their intense connection.
I found Stephanie to have an irritating personality, and she seemed sort of pushy and she tried to act like she knew as much about Ephram's family as Amy did at Delia's Bat Mitzvah, when she had barely started going out with him. I agree that they wouldn't have lasted long even if Amy wasn't in the picture. I also agree that Ephram and Laynie meshed perfectly and I'll always regret that they didn't pursue a romantic relationship in Season Two and that we got stuck with Ephram and Madison instead.
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:28 PM
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I found Stephanie to have an irritating personality, and she seemed sort of pushy and she tried to act like she knew as much about Ephram's family as Amy did at Delia's Bat Mitzvah, when she had barely started going out with him. I agree that they wouldn't have lasted long even if Amy wasn't in the picture. I also agree that Ephram and Laynie meshed perfectly and I'll always regret that they didn't pursue a romantic relationship in Season Two and that we got stuck with Ephram and Madison instead.
I agree. I've never truly vocalized my feelings on Stephanie because I figured I was just an Ephram/Amy homer and totally biased, lol. It's refreshing hearing you state your thoughts because they are mine as well. Ephram/Laynie would have worked perfectly in season 2. Their break up would have been fitting as well... realizing Ephram was still in love with Amy even if he cared a lot of Laynie and Laynie stating she didn't want anything serious but their time together was great and a lot of fun. It would have been perfect! So bummed they didn't go there. I believe Berlanti just wanted to get rid of anyone and everything related to Colin after he passed away. He didn't want any ties to Colin which is really weird. Amy, Bright and even Andy and Ephram would always be tied to Colin. He couldn't erase Colin even if some of us didn't necessarily adore the character. Removing Laynie was completely unnecessary. I will forever despise this move, especially since we were given Hannah as a replacement and I'm sorry, but Hannah was a terrible replacement... borderline Mary Sue that royally got on my nerves.
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:59 PM
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I agree. I've never truly vocalized my feelings on Stephanie because I figured I was just an Ephram/Amy homer and totally biased, lol. It's refreshing hearing you state your thoughts because they are mine as well. Ephram/Laynie would have worked perfectly in season 2. Their break up would have been fitting as well... realizing Ephram was still in love with Amy even if he cared a lot of Laynie and Laynie stating she didn't want anything serious but their time together was great and a lot of fun. It would have been perfect! So bummed they didn't go there. I believe Berlanti just wanted to get rid of anyone and everything related to Colin after he passed away. He didn't want any ties to Colin which is really weird. Amy, Bright and even Andy and Ephram would always be tied to Colin. He couldn't erase Colin even if some of us didn't necessarily adore the character. Removing Laynie was completely unnecessary. I will forever despise this move, especially since we were given Hannah as a replacement and I'm sorry, but Hannah was a terrible replacement... borderline Mary Sue that royally got on my nerves.
It's so unusual for us to agree! I also didn't like how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy when Amy tried to talk to her about her feelings for Ephram, and I just found Stephanie irritating in general. If we had gotten another season of the show, I wonder if she would have been in the picture at all or if they would have just had that Madison storyline?

I'll never understand why Berlanti basically erased Colin's family from the show after his death. Laynie was a wonderful character, because she was Amy's only true friend (I don't count those shallow witches that Amy knew in High School as her true friends), and her and Ephram definitely clicked, and it would have been intriguing to see how Amy would react if she saw her best friend and the boy she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved in a romantic relationship. That would have been so much more intriguing and interesting than seeing Ephram and Madison and having dull as dishwater Hannah take Laynie's place as Amy's best friend and Bright's love interest.
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:31 AM
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It's so unusual for us to agree!
Oh yes, very unusual. In fact... have we ever agreed on anything, past and present?

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I also didn't like how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy when Amy tried to talk to her about her feelings for Ephram, and I just found Stephanie irritating in general. If we had gotten another season of the show, I wonder if she would have been in the picture at all or if they would have just had that Madison storyline?
I hated how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy was well. It reminded me of when Madison was the babysitter supposedly doing her job (but seducing Ephram instead) and Amy came to the door and Madison treated her horribly (even though sadly Amy was too depressed to pick up on Madison's disgusting behavior). I think both Stephanie and Madison felt the connection between Ephram/Amy and all they could do was strut confidence and arrogance in denial. Oh well, the joke was on them.

Stephanie really irritated me too. I also wonder if Stephanie would have stuck around once stupid Madison, the character who would never go away, would have returned. My guess is no. We would have received a horrible ending with Amy standing there waiting to express her feelings for Ephram right in front of a Ferris Wheel with Madison's return about the baby and the phone call spoiling everything. I just think there would be too much swirling around if both Stephanie and Madison were around, plus Ephram/Amy in limbo too. Madison wouldn't have been back for anything romantic (the illegal Ephram/Madison ship had sailed long before this) but it would have been overkill. I wonder if Stephanie even knew Ephram impregnated Madison and had a kid out there Madison went behind his back and gave up for adoption without telling him until it was too late. Maybe that's how they'd get rid of Stephanie. She'd find out the truth and either say goodbye, you never told me, or she'd say Ephram had a lot on his plate and to call when he figured it out, something like that. Then he'd either never call or call and tell her goodbye. LOL

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I'll never understand why Berlanti basically erased Colin's family from the show after his death. Laynie was a wonderful character, because she was Amy's only true friend (I don't count those shallow witches that Amy knew in High School as her true friends), and her and Ephram definitely clicked, and it would have been intriguing to see how Amy would react if she saw her best friend and the boy she loved but couldn't admit to herself that she loved in a romantic relationship. That would have been so much more intriguing and interesting than seeing Ephram and Madison and having dull as dishwater Hannah take Laynie's place as Amy's best friend and Bright's love interest.
I don't get it either. Berlanti even started the process of chucking Colin's family by showing his parents in denial about his serious brain condition and then after he passed, suddenly Colin's dad is a heavy alcoholic who is unreachable, Laynie is basically distant from her parents. Immediately Berlanti wanted them viewed in a negative light almost. It was really strange and unnecessary. Laynie should have stayed. You are right, she was Amy's only true friend. It always bothered me that we initially received this close friendship between Bright/Colin/Amy as a trio when Laynie must have been around as well considering how close Amy and Laynie were. It was just dumb how Laynie was thrown aside all the time in key moments she should have been around. Yes, we already received a preview of jealous Amy in season 1 when Ephram/Laynie started mildly dating. Amy was fuming with jealousy hearing about them, even watching them ice skating. Amy took issue with their relationship then. If Ephram/Laynie would have dated in season 2, we could have seen a very depressed Amy over Colin's death but eventually very concerned over what was happening between Ephram/Laynie. It could have been the driving force behind Amy snapping back to reality, getting through her situational depression... not wanting to lose Ephram romantically... the jealousy, her intense feelings for Ephram being the driving force behind snapping the situational depression and wanting to live again. I always felt that scene when "Colin" shows up as a powerful one which allowed Amy to finally move on. A part of me would have preferred seeing Ephram get Amy out of her dark times. He was her reality, her future and it would have been awesome seeing Ephram reach her even in the darkest of times. Essentially we received this because Amy was ready to get back on track with Ephram once we removed the situational depression but I would have preferred seeing more Ephram/Amy interaction before this point. Instead, we had to endure Amy/Tommy and Ephram/Madison which was annoying and unnecessary.
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Old 10-08-2017, 02:48 PM
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Oh yes, very unusual. In fact... have we ever agreed on anything, past and present?


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I hated how Stephanie was so overconfident and dismissive of Amy was well. It reminded me of when Madison was the babysitter supposedly doing her job (but seducing Ephram instead) and Amy came to the door and Madison treated her horribly (even though sadly Amy was too depressed to pick up on Madison's disgusting behavior). I think both Stephanie and Madison felt the connection between Ephram/Amy and all they could do was strut confidence and arrogance in denial. Oh well, the joke was on them.
I completely agree, but I'd take Stephanie over Madison every day of the week.

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Stephanie really irritated me too. I also wonder if Stephanie would have stuck around once stupid Madison, the character who would never go away, would have returned. My guess is no. We would have received a horrible ending with Amy standing there waiting to express her feelings for Ephram right in front of a Ferris Wheel with Madison's return about the baby and the phone call spoiling everything. I just think there would be too much swirling around if both Stephanie and Madison were around, plus Ephram/Amy in limbo too. Madison wouldn't have been back for anything romantic (the illegal Ephram/Madison ship had sailed long before this) but it would have been overkill. I wonder if Stephanie even knew Ephram impregnated Madison and had a kid out there Madison went behind his back and gave up for adoption without telling him until it was too late. Maybe that's how they'd get rid of Stephanie. She'd find out the truth and either say goodbye, you never told me, or she'd say Ephram had a lot on his plate and to call when he figured it out, something like that. Then he'd either never call or call and tell her goodbye. LOL
It didn't appear that Ephram and Stephanie had a very deep relationship, so I'd doubt that he would have told her about Madison and the baby at the point we saw them. If Madison came back and they pursued this "get the baby back" or "find the baby" storyline, or whatever they planned to do I would envision what you said Michelle that once Ephram told Stephanie about Madison and the baby either Stephanie or Ephram would come to the conclusion that he had a lot on his plate at the moment and she'd be out of the picture. I would have hated whatever storyline they were planning with Madison, and I especially would have hated seeing Amy stand out by the Ferris Wheel by herself while Ephram talked to Madison, and I would have hated seeing Amy and Ephram kept apart again due to that witch.

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Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post)
I don't get it either. Berlanti even started the process of chucking Colin's family by showing his parents in denial about his serious brain condition and then after he passed, suddenly Colin's dad is a heavy alcoholic who is unreachable, Laynie is basically distant from her parents. Immediately Berlanti wanted them viewed in a negative light almost. It was really strange and unnecessary. Laynie should have stayed. You are right, she was Amy's only true friend. It always bothered me that we initially received this close friendship between Bright/Colin/Amy as a trio when Laynie must have been around as well considering how close Amy and Laynie were. It was just dumb how Laynie was thrown aside all the time in key moments she should have been around. Yes, we already received a preview of jealous Amy in season 1 when Ephram/Laynie started mildly dating. Amy was fuming with jealousy hearing about them, even watching them ice skating. Amy took issue with their relationship then. If Ephram/Laynie would have dated in season 2, we could have seen a very depressed Amy over Colin's death but eventually very concerned over what was happening between Ephram/Laynie. It could have been the driving force behind Amy snapping back to reality, getting through her situational depression... not wanting to lose Ephram romantically... the jealousy, her intense feelings for Ephram being the driving force behind snapping the situational depression and wanting to live again. I always felt that scene when "Colin" shows up as a powerful one which allowed Amy to finally move on. A part of me would have preferred seeing Ephram get Amy out of her dark times. He was her reality, her future and it would have been awesome seeing Ephram reach her even in the darkest of times. Essentially we received this because Amy was ready to get back on track with Ephram once we removed the situational depression but I would have preferred seeing more Ephram/Amy interaction before this point. Instead, we had to endure Amy/Tommy and Ephram/Madison which was annoying and unnecessary.
It's weird that Berlanti wanted to move on from the Colin storyline and basically get rid of his family, including Laynie, but yet a good deal of Season Two was devoted to Amy mourning Colin and going through a situational depression over it, and we "saw" Colin several times that season, but I hated seeing Laynie written off the show due to this desire on Berlanti's part. Laynie was a great character and Nora Zehetner was a wonderful actress, and we ended up getting Hannah, who was one of the most insipid characters that I've ever seen. I also would have much preferred seeing Amy jealous over Ephram and Laynie's relationship and start to snap out of her depression due to that, and then I would have like to have seen Ephram and Laynie's relationship end amicably (or as amicably as any romantic relationship can end) because they both realized that he loved Amy.
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