[jediwands]

Something like this happened in my family actually and it backfired. My mom's brother for 15 years was married to a horrible woman. She was nasty. She even tried to mess with my Grandparents verbally and trust me, you don't get away with that. My Grandmother practically slapped her in the face one time. She was a terrible woman. She cheated on my uncle. She had an affair behind his back while being a terrible wife in general for five years. My oldest cousin and their son, Mike was told about it when he was 18. My youngest cousin, their daughter, Lori was only 14 at the time Mike was told and she was never told about the affair. When her parents divorced she took it really hard. Mike didn't because he understood the reality. When Lori was 21 her mother ended up telling her about the cheating. That possibility was never considered. When she found out my uncle told her brother and not her (even eventually) she was heartbroken and livid. She said she would have handled the divorce much better had she known the full story. She felt like she wasn't important or intelligent enough to be told eventually too. To this day, she carries pain even if she continues to have relationships with my uncle and her brother. But in this case, she should have been told so she didn't find out in the worst possible way.

That's why I feel it's a bit more complicated than just not telling Delia to save her pain. The Brown's situation was different but the same theme applies. Sometimes these things have a way of coming out, somehow some way. Delia might react just like my cousin if she ever found out about the affair, and knew Andy told her brother and never told her. It'd be one thing to not tell either child but when you tell one and not the other, as was the case in my real life situation, it can have devastating consequences.

[Jerry D]

That's an excellent point Michelle and I never considered that. Obviously, your real-life situation has given you a different view of all this than me or Betty.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) That's an excellent point Michelle and I never considered that. Obviously, your real-life situation has given you a different view of all this than me or Betty.

Thanks. Yes, like I said, the situation on Everwood was vastly different. Julia wasn't my aunt, that is for sure! But sometimes these sibling things can get tricky when it comes to parents. I know how hurt I'd feel if my mom and dad would have confided in my sister over something and chose not to tell me. I would feel awful and wonder why, questioning the same things my cousin did, even if it wouldn't have been something bad like it was for my cousin. But I feel like Delia, as she grew older would want to know more about her parents, why they moved to Everwood, etc. She probably would eventually question things. She was very little, but I'm guessing she might have picked up on the distance between Ephram and Andy back in NYC, and certainly the distance initially in Everwood. She also had to have known her parents weren't exactly 100% happily married too. There's a chance she might ask Ephram about these things eventually. She's going to want to keep her mom's memory alive the older she gets. She might want to know stuff that could be impossible for Ephram or Andy not to eventually tell her.

[everwoodfan52]

I see your point, Michelle. It would be horrible if Delia found out that way.
I am thinking that your aunt and uncle's situation is a little different than Julia and Andy. Julia wasn't a horrible person, and she and Andy didn't divorce due to Julia being a horrible cheating wife. It's possible, but I can't see any circumstance where this incident would ever come out. Of course...I have been wrong before! lol

[jediwands]

I mentioned above everything you did, and added in a few other things such as how it could come out. All I know personally is I am close enough to my sister and if I knew something she didn't know about my parents or Grandparents, even something bad, I would be overwhelmed with guilt that she didn't know. I simply don't keep secrets from my sister and she doesn't with me. That is why we are so close. We tell each other everything, even the bad stuff. Open communication and honesty. I don't think secrets and lies are ever the way to go. Like I said, I can definitely think of ways Ephram or Andy might think of telling her. Delia's never not going to think of her mother again or their time in NYC. She might ask Andy and Ephram about their time in NYC, or why they seemed so estranged, why Andy wasn't around a lot, why Eprham and Andy had such a difficult time getting along. At age 25, I think Delia can handle it. Again, I am always about truth and honesty. My biggest pet peeve is if I am being lied to or others go behind my back. I can't stand it. If Delia as a grown adult is talking to her brother and father about their family growing up and she asks the right questions, I could see Andy and Ephram wondering if she should know.

[everwoodfan52]

I don't know, Michelle. I can't see Delia asking about her parent's marriage. She was so young when Julia died and I really don't think she noticed any estrangement between her parents.
Of course it is possible that in her subconscious Delia remembers some arguing and she might ask why her parents were fighting. More times than not Julia and Andy were fighting because Andy was an absentee parent and preoccupied with his job.
I'm sure that is what Andy and Ephram would tell Delia.

If you knew something bad that your sister didn't know...wouldn't you feel more guilty if telling her would be very hurtful for her? Wouldn't your sister be better off and happier not knowing?

[jediwands]

I just hate lies. I wouldn't go out of my way to tell her but if she was fishing for something I wouldn't manipulate it and keep her from finding out.

I just can't see Delia not wanting to remember things from her childhood as she got older. That's what kids do, especially when they lose a parent young. They want to remember the old times in order to keep their memory alive.

I remember when I was in my early teens all I wanted to do was talk to my Grandmother/mother/aunts about when my mom's side of the family grew up in Western Pennsylvania. I constantly wanted to hear every little detail I could find out about. It made me feel like I almost did experience some of those memories for real.

I just don't consider Delia robotic. I just think if she had open communication with Ephram when they were grown adults, I could see a scenario where Ephram would tell her about it. Delia might ask why Andy was always working, why they left NYC, why she remembers so many dinners without Andy. With both Ephram and Delia in their 30s and 40s, I think Delia could handle Ephram telling her they had a couple things going on in their marriage besides Andy just working a lot.

[break the window]

It's not something that Delia definitely needs to know. Honestly, why would the subject ever come up. It is a forever sore spot fight that had Ephram and Andy broken to the core. When Ephram found out it was Julia who cheated, it broke him. It broke the idea that his mother was perfect, never flawed. That's how Delia should remember her mother. Her mom was perfect, always there for her in every way she could be...until she couldn't be.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) That's why I feel it's a bit more complicated than just not telling Delia to save her pain. The Brown's situation was different but the same theme applies. Sometimes these things have a way of coming out, somehow some way. Delia might react just like my cousin if she ever found out about the affair, and knew Andy told her brother and never told her. It'd be one thing to not tell either child but when you tell one and not the other, as was the case in my real life situation, it can have devastating consequences.

I agree with you. And basically what your real life story is something similar to what happened with Ephram in the show. Ephram took his mother's death a bit worse compared to Delia. Not that Delia did not love Julia, but it was different for Ephram. And Ephram needed to know that it was Julia and not Andy because it was vital for the father/son relationship. Otherwise Ephram might have never moved fully forward and accepted Andy as his dad.

So if in the future similar situation happens with Delia there might be a good idea to tell her. So basically it's on need basis. If she is OK with it, there is no need to tell her about the cheating as it would only hurt her. But if there comes a point when she might need this information so that she could get closure over something then yes it's a good idea for her to be told.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) I agree with you. And basically what your real life story is something similar to what happened with Ephram in the show. Ephram took his mother's death a bit worse compared to Delia. Not that Delia did not love Julia, but it was different for Ephram. And Ephram needed to know that it was Julia and not Andy because it was vital for the father/son relationship. Otherwise Ephram might have never moved fully forward and accepted Andy as his dad. So if in the future similar situation happens with Delia there might be a good idea to tell her. So basically it's on need basis. If she is OK with it, there is no need to tell her about the cheating as it would only hurt her. But if there comes a point when she might need this information so that she could get closure over something then yes it's a good idea for her to be told.

Exactly right! Ephram was actually able to move on a lot more with the information and even see his father a bit differently. It helped him. There definitely might come a time when Delia sets up a scenario where Ephram and/or Andy would want to share it with her. Like I said, I just can't see Delia moving so completely forward she doesn't want to look back. She's going to want to remember their time together and maybe wonder why her parents seemed strained. I also can't see Ephram not being honest either. I think if Delia set up a situation where Ephram had to make a decision on talking to her about this he would go with honesty. He respects and loves her, he wouldn't see lying as the way to go, especially given what happened to him with the baby situation too. He knows how secrets and lies to protect someone you love can turn into being a complete disaster given how hurt and betrayed he felt.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Exactly right! Ephram was actually able to move on a lot more with the information and even see his father a bit differently. It helped him. There definitely might come a time when Delia sets up a scenario where Ephram and/or Andy would want to share it with her. Like I said, I just can't see Delia moving so completely forward she doesn't want to look back.

That's true. Yes we did not see Delia acting bad due to her mother's death, but we have to remember that she was young. Maybe she did not have the needed development and mindset to react in a different way. This does not mean that she will not react in the future like for example when she gets Ephram's age. Actually I think that it's quite normal for kids that lost their parent when they were too young to have a delayed reaction over the events.

She's going to want to remember their time together and maybe wonder why her parents seemed strained.

The least she would want to know is why Ephram and Andy did not get along.

I also can't see Ephram not being honest either. I think if Delia set up a situation where Ephram had to make a decision on talking to her about this he would go with honesty. He respects and loves her, he wouldn't see lying as the way to go, especially given what happened to him with the baby situation too. He knows how secrets and lies to protect someone you love can turn into being a complete disaster given how hurt and betrayed he felt.

I agree. Ephram is all about honesty. So if Delia asks him something he will most probably answer with the truth considering her age and the specific situation.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) That's true. Yes we did not see Delia acting bad due to her mother's death, but we have to remember that she was young. Maybe she did not have the needed development and mindset to react in a different way. This does not mean that she will not react in the future like for example when she gets Ephram's age. Actually I think that it's quite normal for kids that lost their parent when they were too young to have a delayed reaction over the events. The least she would want to know is why Ephram and Andy did not get along. I agree. Ephram is all about honesty. So if Delia asks him something he will most probably answer with the truth considering her age and the specific situation.

Exactly. I can't see Ephram lying to her. I just can't so if Delia asks him, I really believe he will only see honesty as the way to go.

On a psychological level, kids are resilient when it comes to trauma and grief. It doesn't surprise me Delia reacted like she did (even with not completely understanding) and not letting it haunt her in a lingering way either. Kids are amazing in many ways and this is one area that thankfully is an example. Sometimes children get over really bad situations much more easily over grown adults. A startling statistic is children who are raped get over the trauma more quickly than an adult woman who is raped.

So I don't think Delia would suddenly be in severe pain over the loss of her mother when she's 20 or 30 years old. But she certainly could intellectually and somewhat emotionally want to go over her childhood including the death of her mother.

[jediwands]

Really craving Everwood talk.

For those of you that are unaware, we are having a series rewatch in the not so distant future. We haven't decided on a precise date but August/September is the general time period.

Anyway, until then, I wanted to get up a new discussion question:

If you had to pick one character who changed the most from The Pilot to the Series Finale, who would it be?

[kabous]

Hi guys.

Long time no talk.

I recently rewatched Season 1 of Everwood (as well as the OC).

I cannot believe how good this show actually was. It is one of the most underrated, beautiful damn shows ever.

It's up there with Parenthood, This is Us and Friday Night Lights as heart breaking.

That scene with Ephram and Andy in the pilot. Where Harold talks about Andy performing surgery on Colin and when he says "You owe it to my broken hearted daughter". When Bright "rescued" Amy at the basketball game when Colin bailed on her. When Ephram found out that his mom had the affair "No, it was you. I knew her. You didn't."

Such a good show.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by kabous (View Post) Hi guys. Long time no talk. I recently rewatched Season 1 of Everwood (as well as the OC). I cannot believe how good this show actually was. It is one of the most underrated, beautiful damn shows ever. It's up there with Parenthood, This is Us and Friday Night Lights as heart breaking. That scene with Ephram and Andy in the pilot. Where Harold talks about Andy performing surgery on Colin and when he says "You owe it to my broken hearted daughter". When Bright "rescued" Amy at the basketball game when Colin bailed on her. When Ephram found out that his mom had the affair "No, it was you. I knew her. You didn't." Such a good show.

Hello!

So glad you posted. Love your thoughts... yes, this show is a gem, one of a kind. You are right, it's in the best shows ever category. What gets me is how many people haven't seen Everwood. They don't know what they're missing!

Love all those moments you listed. Everwood is so good, just reading your scene mentions has my mind going straight to those moments, revisiting again. Berlanti really took you to Everwood. You were there experiencing everything the characters and town experienced.

Great to hear from you!