[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) That's great question. Can I add just something to this one while we are on the topic? If you think that Bright's life changed because of Hannah do you think that it was all on her or it was something else? I'm asking because for me Bright's change started earlier. And to me it got back to Colin's death. It was Colin's death that made Bright actually get closer to Ephram. IMO without Ephram's influence Bright wouldn't actually think about dating Hannah. So in this sense I think that there was change in Bright to make him decide to try with Hannah. So maybe we could also think about while we are discussing Bright's change from Season 1 till Season 4?

I completely agree with you that Bright's change was way before he met Hannah. In fact, one could say BECAUSE of his transformation starting after Colin's death, Bright was even able to SEE Hannah romantically because he was starting to choose substance over superficial garbage.

Most certainly Bright's change took place after Colin's death. I also think that's why Bright and Ephram were able to form a friendship too, along with how personal Bright started taking Harold mildly cutting him down. The old Bright would have laughed it off but the new Bright started caring about what people thought of him, especially his father. I also think that's why Bright started taking school seriously, too. He didn't want shortcuts. He wanted to prove that he was serious about things in life he typically laughed off in the past.

Colin's death certainly changed Bright. He was never the same after that and in a good way.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I completely agree with you that Bright's change was way before he met Hannah. In fact, one could say BECAUSE of his transformation starting after Colin's death, Bright was even able to SEE Hannah romantically because he was starting to choose substance over superficial garbage.

Precisely ! I saw it the same way. I think that the Bright from the Pilot wouldn't even consider dating Hannah. He wouldn't even talk to her.

Most certainly Bright's change took place after Colin's death. I also think that's why Bright and Ephram were able to form a friendship too, along with how personal Bright started taking Harold mildly cutting him down. The old Bright would have laughed it off but the new Bright started caring about what people thought of him, especially his father. I also think that's why Bright started taking school seriously, too. He didn't want shortcuts. He wanted to prove that he was serious about things in life he typically laughed off in the past.

For Bright it wasn't just that his best friend had died. It was also the burden that he had something to do with it. Remember how guilty he felt that he had been driving that car? It was actually the first heart to heart talk he had with Harold. What he had carried in himself those months after the accident wasn't something light. It would be hard for adult, let alone for teenager. This experience had changed him fast.

Add to this the fact that his sister was in deep depression. Of course for Amy this was the hardest, but it's not easy to see a person you love and care about to enter such deep depression. All of this had impact on Bright. And I think that because of this he turned to Ephram.

Bright had no answers. He only knew that he can't live the way he used to before Colin's accident and death. Ephram provided him different point of view and perspective. Plus he knew that Ephram had a good approach with Amy as well and he was helping her. All of this made Bright open to Ephram and he was able to trust him.

Colin's death certainly changed Bright. He was never the same after that and in a good way.

For sure .

Now since I didn't see Bright's cheating out of character my point of view is different when it comes to how Hannah changed Bright. I do like Hannah, but I don't think that she as a character had that much impact on the main characters in the show. I just don't think that she was that important in the big picture of things. Bright had grown up a lot from the Pilot, but for me Hannah wasn't the reason for the growing up. She was the proof that he had grown up.

For me the fact that Bright decided to try out with Hannah and try relationship as a whole (having sex is not relationship, it's having fun) was proof that Bright had grown up. The problem for Hannah/Bright wasn't that Bright wasn't changed or ready for relationship. It was because Bright wanted sex and Hannah was no way in hell before marriage. My personal opinion is that Hannah never gave chance to Bright to say his needs and what he wants. It was only what Hannah wanted and that for me was quite selfish. And that is why Bright cheated and for me it made perfect sense. This doesn't mean that it was nice or cool for Hannah to be cheated on. And yes Bright had to talk to Hannah and explain to her that for him sex is important and it is part of the relationship.

[TL22]

For me the fact that Bright decided to try out with Hannah and try relationship as a whole (having sex is not relationship, it's having fun) was proof that Bright had grown up. The problem for Hannah/Bright wasn't that Bright wasn't changed or ready for relationship. It was because Bright wanted sex and Hannah was no way in hell before marriage. My personal opinion is that Hannah never gave chance to Bright to say his needs and what he wants. It was only what Hannah wanted and that for me was quite selfish. And that is why Bright cheated and for me it made perfect sense. This doesn't mean that it was nice or cool for Hannah to be cheated on. And yes Bright had to talk to Hannah and explain to her that for him sex is important and it is part of the relationship.

I really think they did more in the shower besides holding hands.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post) I really think they did more in the shower besides holding hands.

I agree with that, but for me this was teasing. I think that this didn't help Bright, this annoyed him more because it aroused him and then he wasn't able to have sex. So I see this whole story a bit differently.

I think that Bright didn't communicate to Hannah what he wanted which is his mistake. And I think that Hannah didn't give chance to Bright to say his wishes as well.

Which is why in the end Bright cheated.

[everwoodfan52]

Koni and Michelle, I also agree that Bright started to change for the better after Colin's death. Before this time he was a self-centered bully who had little tolerance for anyone who wasn't that traditional "popular mode". You're all correct in that while Colin was alive and he and Bright were friends, Bright would not have given Hannah a chance. In fact...he probably would have mocked her.

Even though most of his changes took place before Hannah...she did cause some changes in Bright. With Hannah Bright learned how to put someone else's needs before his own. He learned (for the most part) self discipline and restraint. He also learned not to judge a book by it's cover and to see inner beauty in a person.

I really think they did more in the shower besides holding hands.

I'm really not sure about that. I'm with Koni in believing that Hannah was somewhat of a tease in this shower scene. I'm thinking that it was a look but don't touch situation. We'll never really know for sure, though.

[secretk]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) Koni and Michelle, I also agree that Bright started to change for the better after Colin's death. Before this time he was a self-centered bully who had little tolerance for anyone who wasn't that traditional "popular mode". You're all correct in that while Colin was alive and he and Bright were friends, Bright would not have given Hannah a chance. In fact...he probably would have mocked her.

Yes indeed the old Bright from the Pilot would mock someone like Hannah .

Even though most of his changes took place before Hannah...she did cause some changes in Bright. With Hannah Bright learned how to put someone else's needs before his own. He learned (for the most part) self discipline and restraint. He also learned not to judge a book by it's cover and to see inner beauty in a person.

That's true. I remember the episode in Season 4 when Ephram, Hannah and Bright went to party. Bright went to party mode and completely forgot about Hannah and the fact that she is not comfortable in this scene. I think that by the end of the episode Bright realized this and started accepting that being in a relationship means that there is also someone else to think about except yourself.

I'm really not sure about that. I'm with Koni in believing that Hannah was somewhat of a tease in this shower scene. I'm thinking that it was a look but don't touch situation. We'll never really know for sure, though.

Yeah both interpretations are possible and I think that it depends on what your first one was when you watched the show. I honestly never considered that they did something more. The thought in my mind was always more like teasing than pleasing.

[TL22]

I'm really not sure about that. I'm with Koni in believing that Hannah was somewhat of a tease in this shower scene. I'm thinking that it was a look but don't touch situation. We'll never really know for sure, though.

From Hannah's conversation with Amy later on I believe Hannah implied they did everything but the deed itself. I'll have to go back and watch it again.

[jediwands]

Love this discussion everyone! When I get home later after work and after my niece's soccer game I will definitely respond to stuff. Love the Everwood discussion so much! Thanks, guys!

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post) From Hannah's conversation with Amy later on I believe Hannah implied they did everything but the deed itself. I'll have to go back and watch it again.

I'd be interested in rewatching whatever scene this is because I don't remember.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post) . I'll have to go back and watch it again.

I'd be interested in rewatching whatever scene this is because I don't remember.

Sounds like a really good plan. I am going to do that right now.


I did find this....

http://www.tvguide.com/news/did-bright-hannah-31129/

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) Sounds like a really good plan. I am going to do that right now. I did find this.... Did Bright and Hannah, um, do ... - Today's News: Our Take | TVGuide.com

Which goes right along with the theory that Hannah was a bit of a tease in the shower in the sense that a guy like Bright wanted the TD/home run and not just first base.

I feel like they made out and touched a little but nothing major.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) I feel like they made out and touched a little but nothing major.

I'm even wondering if they did any of that! lol

I just watched the episode after the shower scene and this is the dialogue..

Amy: So..how are you and Bright?

Hannah: We took a shower together.

Amy: What? Did you guys....?

Hannah: No, of course not! But we're very clean.

[Jamie]

^ That exchange is not clear to me at all.

I hope they made out! They made out with their clothes on constantly. Right?

I am not sure I'd use the word tease. I feel Bright knew what he was getting himself into. A little different/weird nonetheless. I guess I always thought she was attempting to be intimate without having sex. They probably literally showered together. I mean, I imagine some kissing was involved, but not too much more. A different kind of intimacy...

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) Precisely ! I saw it the same way. I think that the Bright from the Pilot wouldn't even consider dating Hannah. He wouldn't even talk to her.

Exactly right. He never would have considered her in the least. In fact, I hate to say it but he might have even called her a dork or a loser (behind her back) when he was really in his prime with the acting like an arrogant jerk.

For Bright it wasn't just that his best friend had died. It was also the burden that he had something to do with it. Remember how guilty he felt that he had been driving that car? It was actually the first heart to heart talk he had with Harold. What he had carried in himself those months after the accident wasn't something light. It would be hard for adult, let alone for teenager. This experience had changed him fast. Add to this the fact that his sister was in deep depression. Of course for Amy this was the hardest, but it's not easy to see a person you love and care about to enter such deep depression. All of this had impact on Bright. And I think that because of this he turned to Ephram. Bright had no answers. He only knew that he can't live the way he used to before Colin's accident and death. Ephram provided him different point of view and perspective. Plus he knew that Ephram had a good approach with Amy as well and he was helping her. All of this made Bright open to Ephram and he was able to trust him.

Totally. It was certainly the guilt that drove Bright to make changes in life. How common it is to feel guilty about the death of a love one in general, too, even if it's a sudden, natural death that you never would have predicted. You still feel guilt of maybe not telling the person you loved them enough or not spending enough quality time with the person, etc. There's guilt when it comes to death of a loved one in general so for Bright to actually indirectly play a part in Colin's death was such a tough burden for him to carry without reaching a breaking point. You even said it... an adult would take it in an intense way so imagine a teenager who doesn't even fully understand how to process everything. I really am shocked and even proud of Bright for handling it in the manner that he did. He also was very perceptive to Amy's situation and he tried to get his parents to even see that she needed way more help than they were willing to admit. I also think he got close to Ephram because he knew Ephram truly cared for Amy and because his family couldn't help her he knew Ephram would just like you said. I think Ephram appealed to Bright because Bright didn't have to play a fake role with Ephram. Since Bright was starting a new transformation in his life he welcomed Ephram because he knew Ephram had realness to him and that's the route/path Bright was going on so all the more he opened up the road to Ephram.

For sure . Now since I didn't see Bright's cheating out of character my point of view is different when it comes to how Hannah changed Bright. I do like Hannah, but I don't think that she as a character had that much impact on the main characters in the show. I just don't think that she was that important in the big picture of things. Bright had grown up a lot from the Pilot, but for me Hannah wasn't the reason for the growing up. She was the proof that he had grown up. For me the fact that Bright decided to try out with Hannah and try relationship as a whole (having sex is not relationship, it's having fun) was proof that Bright had grown up. The problem for Hannah/Bright wasn't that Bright wasn't changed or ready for relationship. It was because Bright wanted sex and Hannah was no way in hell before marriage. My personal opinion is that Hannah never gave chance to Bright to say his needs and what he wants. It was only what Hannah wanted and that for me was quite selfish. And that is why Bright cheated and for me it made perfect sense. This doesn't mean that it was nice or cool for Hannah to be cheated on. And yes Bright had to talk to Hannah and explain to her that for him sex is important and it is part of the relationship.

Great thoughts. I kind of feel like Bright didn't go into his relationship with Hannah thinking he was going to change her views on sex before marriage. I think it's possible he really did believe since he changed so many other aspects of his life, and for once, he fell for a girl he cared about completely instead of superficially, sex wasn't totally on his mind initially. He really just loved being around someone like Hannah that he knew had substance. I feel like eventually, though, he realized he still had needs in this area of his life. It got stronger and stronger as he started falling for Hannah more and more too. Then the lack of communication developed and we know the rest of the story.

But yes, I don't believe Bright intended to get put into the situation that he did. I don't even feel like he thought he'd eventually get Hannah to "cave" either. I just don't think sex was on his mind initially.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jamie (View Post) ^ That exchange is not clear to me at all. I hope they made out! They made out with their clothes on constantly. Right? I am not sure I'd use the word tease. I feel Bright knew what he was getting himself into. A little different/weird nonetheless. I guess I always thought she was attempting to be intimate without having sex. They probably literally showered together. I mean, I imagine some kissing was involved, but not too much more. A different kind of intimacy...

Yes, I'm not sure tease is the right word in thinking about it. Bright is Bright and the woman he loves is in a shower with him so of course he's going to physically want to express how he feels. Look at poor Ephram and what happened to him in bed with Amy (and they were just kissing and it wasn't determined yet whether they were going to sleep together at that point) right before they had sex for the first time.

But yes, I totally agree Hannah didn't deliberately try to get him hot and bothered. She really did, like you said, want to have an intimate moment with him, a unique sort of intimate moment. Very true.