[jediwands]

What storyline do you wish would have had more exploration or what brand new storyline would you have liked to have seen explored?

For years, I’ve talked about how much hell Amy went through while finding out the guy she loved impregnated an adult (since, he did) and he didn’t know about it. Then Amy finds out while Ephram’s ready to leave for the biggest audition of his life. She had to hold it together until he returned at which time she was telling him. Amy’s struggle is massive and I feel like while the show focused in on the aftermath of Madisongate (Ephram treating her like garbage, breaking up with her, not seeing a forever while she’s dealing with her mom’s cancer diagnosis), we didn’t get to truly see how much pain and anxiety she felt finding out before Madisongate exploded before Ephram found out. I really would have liked to have seen this because EVC would have hit it out of the park and it was important. We did get to see their phone conversations while Ephram was in New York City but it would have been nice seeing some alone scenes with just Amy dealing with her thoughts and feelings. Even after Madisongate exploded, it was all about Ephram. Of course, rightfully so he was the main focus at that point but I would have liked to have seen Amy tell Ephram or even Hannah, Bright, Harold or Rose how much she was dying inside over finding out the news. Amy’s feelings were just ignored. Not even an apology from Ephram when they became friends again before reuniting that he was sorry she had to deal with the shock and as a result, anxiety over the future of their relationship. I think the writers should have included Amy’s process while finding out.

A second one for me would have been Amy finding out Colin was breaking up with her before the accident. Laynie or Ephram should have told her. It would have initially hurt Amy but I feel like she might not have embraced the fake fantasy of being with Colin for as long as she did. Who knows, she might not have experienced such a deep depression had she known the truth.

What about everyone else?

[everwoodfan52]

Great question, Michelle!! Putting my thinking cap on!

[jediwands]

Sounds good!

[Jerry D]

Great question Michelle! I'll post my thoughts this weekend.

I also want to post my thoughts about the previous question.

Thanks to you both for keeping this thread going with thought provoking questions and well thought out answers about this incredible show.

[jediwands]

No problem. It is my pleasure.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Auror (View Post) What storyline do you wish would have had more exploration or what brand new storyline would you have liked to have seen explored? For years, I’ve talked about how much hell Amy went through while finding out the guy she loved impregnated an adult (since, he did) and he didn’t know about it. Then Amy finds out while Ephram’s ready to leave for the biggest audition of his life. She had to hold it together until he returned at which time she was telling him. Amy’s struggle is massive and I feel like while the show focused in on the aftermath of Madisongate (Ephram treating her like garbage, breaking up with her, not seeing a forever while she’s dealing with her mom’s cancer diagnosis), we didn’t get to truly see how much pain and anxiety she felt finding out before Madisongate exploded before Ephram found out. I really would have liked to have seen this because EVC would have hit it out of the park and it was important. We did get to see their phone conversations while Ephram was in New York City but it would have been nice seeing some alone scenes with just Amy dealing with her thoughts and feelings. Even after Madisongate exploded, it was all about Ephram. Of course, rightfully so he was the main focus at that point but I would have liked to have seen Amy tell Ephram or even Hannah, Bright, Harold or Rose how much she was dying inside over finding out the news. Amy’s feelings were just ignored. Not even an apology from Ephram when they became friends again before reuniting that he was sorry she had to deal with the shock and as a result, anxiety over the future of their relationship. I think the writers should have included Amy’s process while finding out. ?

That is my one of my criticisms of this show...rushing through scenarios and not delving more deeping into the reactions and after affects of important plots. They just made it seem as if Amy was okay with it and her only concern was Ephram and his feelings and his reactions and his audition. She was totally selfless here. But...she's also human. It would have been wonderful what is an inevitable reaction to such news regarding her love and another woman's baby. She couldn't possibly get over it so quickly and be so sweet to Ephram on the phone. You're right. The writers made this all about Ephram and tried to spare his feelings at the expense of Amy's feelings. It's as it she were irrelevant in the whole thing.

[everwoodfan52]

What I believe was missing from this show (and this has been discussed before) were more interactions with different characters. It appeared that the writers had tunnel vision and just concentrated on certain interactions and plots...usually between Harold and Andy....Harold and Rose....Harold and his kids...Andy and Ephram/Delia....Andy and Nina....Amy and Ephram...Ephram and Bright...Hannah and Amy.....and Hannah and Bright.

I would have liked so much more to have Amy interacting with Andy and perhaps with Nina. I would have loved more plot lines involving Ephram and Harold which didn't include Tuberculosis! lol I think Ephram and Harold had alot in common and would have been great buddies while he dated Amy and even when he was just pining for Amy. So much more could have beeen included to made this show even more awesome.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) That is my one of my criticisms of this show...rushing through scenarios and not delving more deeping into the reactions and after affects of important plots. They just made it seem as if Amy was okay with it and her only concern was Ephram and his feelings and his reactions and his audition. She was totally selfless here. But...she's also human. It would have been wonderful what is an inevitable reaction to such news regarding her love and another woman's baby. She couldn't possibly get over it so quickly and be so sweet to Ephram on the phone. You're right. The writers made this all about Ephram and tried to spare his feelings at the expense of Amy's feelings. It's as it she were irrelevant in the whole thing.

I think what also made it seem odd is the deep connection they had. Where one stopped, the other was just getting started. They would play off of each other so perfectly. So to shun the one in this scenario made it seem so weird. In a typical scenario it’s the guy finding out he impregnated someone else, and he’s devastated over telling the one he loves the truth. Granted, the situation is different here since poor Ephram found out after everyone else. Still, from the writers perspective, they should have shown how life altering it felt for Amy who was also dealing with her mom’s cancer diagnosis.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) What I believe was missing from this show (and this has been discussed before) were more interactions with different characters. It appeared that the writers had tunnel vision and just concentrated on certain interactions and plots...usually between Harold and Andy....Harold and Rose....Harold and his kids...Andy and Ephram/Delia....Andy and Nina....Amy and Ephram...Ephram and Bright...Hannah and Amy.....and Hannah and Bright. I would have liked so much more to have Amy interacting with Andy and perhaps with Nina. I would have loved more plot lines involving Ephram and Harold which didn't include Tuberculosis! lol I think Ephram and Harold had alot in common and would have been great buddies while he dated Amy and even when he was just pining for Amy. So much more could have beeen included to made this show even more awesome.

Completely agree with you! It was insinuated Amy and Andy had interaction after Amy came home from NYC while Ephram was still at Juilliard. But we never actually saw Amy and Andy go there. More Harold and Ephram interaction would have been great! Tom and Greg just nailed whet very little they were given. We deserved to see more!

Speaking of Amy and Ephram in NYC... I wish we would have seen some flashback scenes with them in NYC. I know the budget wouldn’t have allowed for them to fly out Greg and Emily for a couple scenes in actual NY. But they still could have constructed some scenes showing their time away together. We never got anything.

[zjt]

I figured that I'd jump in here because I just found the forum after binge watching the show over the past couple of weeks. It was one of my favorite shows in college and it was fun/nostalgic to watch again for the first time in almost fifteen years.

The storyline that I would have done differently is that I would have had Ephram get into Julliard but turn it down to be there for Amy after Rose got sick. They'd have had to shift the timeline a little to establish earlier that Amy was staying local but I definitely would have enjoyed seeing this play out.

I know that they needed to find a way to keep everybody in Colorado for college but I think that I'd rather have seen Ephram making a conscious choice to prioritize something else instead of blowing off the audition due to spite/anger towards his father.

I think that the Ephram/Andy conflict would have been great here because Andy's inevitable anger about Ephram walking away from his gift could have led to an interesting comparison to the decision that Andy made that brought them to Everwood in the first place. I could see Ephram saying that he didn't want to be the person that Andy had been in New York and that being there for people that you care about was more important than piano or even brain surgery.

I also think that this would have been another good way to explore where home was for Ephram because I thought that this was one of the main themes of the show. He obviously got pulled away from NYC against his will and I'm sure that his initial feeling was that he would get back as soon as he could. His shift away from that was established well in Season 1 in that he had such a connection with Amy (even before they had ever dated) that he decided to make Everwood his home when he had the potential opportunity to leave. I think that staying for college in this situation could have been the natural progression of his decision in season 1 and showed that home for him was really wherever Amy was.

I would also have liked to see Harold's reaction to this decision because he was definitely upset with the idea of Amy potentially following Ephram to school earlier in the season. While his obsession with Princeton over other Ivies was pretty funny, I understood his concern about not wanting her to lose too much of herself in a relationship. He probably would have appreciated someone doing that for his daughter if the situation was reversed but it would have been interesting given his previous feelings about the situation.

I could also see the potential for conflict between Ephram/Amy down the road because I could see him rethinking his decision if he misses playing at some point and this would probably have been something that they might have had to navigate in season four.

The end of season 3 was really the only part of the series that I didn't enjoy because all three of the characters that I felt most invested in (Ephram, Andy, Amy) had their lives falling apart and Amy was the only one of the three where the damage didn't seem self-inflicted. I understood Ephram's anger towards Andy/Madison but the way that he took it out on Amy felt really out of character from the way that he was during the rest of the series.

This post ended up being much longer than I expected it to but I definitely would have enjoyed this storyline more than the way it happened on the show. I'd also have given Ephram an age-appropriate girlfriend that he didn't impregnate in Season 2 so the pregnancy stuff wouldn't have played out at all in my scenario.

[jediwands]

^^^ Wow. Your thoughts are excellent.

I’m going to dive into your thoughts (I agree with you completely) after I get through a work meeting this morning.

Please feel free to check out the rest of the board, thanks for stopping by, and welcome to the board!

[everwoodfan52]

OMG, zjt, first of all...Welcome to our board! Second of all...wow! I have never heard these thoughts before in all the years I've been on this board. All of them are so good and make so much sense! I especially like having Ephram forgo Julliard for Amy...thus causing conflict with Andy. So many possibilities there.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by zjt (View Post) I figured that I'd jump in here because I just found the forum after binge watching the show over the past couple of weeks. It was one of my favorite shows in college and it was fun/nostalgic to watch again for the first time in almost fifteen years.

Glad you found Everwood and this board! We've been going strong on this board for years and years so Everwood is always kept alive right here as a result.

The storyline that I would have done differently is that I would have had Ephram get into Julliard but turn it down to be there for Amy after Rose got sick. They'd have had to shift the timeline a little to establish earlier that Amy was staying local but I definitely would have enjoyed seeing this play out. I know that they needed to find a way to keep everybody in Colorado for college but I think that I'd rather have seen Ephram making a conscious choice to prioritize something else instead of blowing off the audition due to spite/anger towards his father.

I really despised that Ephram turned down the audition, especially after Amy even got him another audition (which hardly ever happens) and he still turned it out. It was so frustrating. Made me hate Madisongate (and Madison) all the more.

I think that the Ephram/Andy conflict would have been great here because Andy's inevitable anger about Ephram walking away from his gift could have led to an interesting comparison to the decision that Andy made that brought them to Everwood in the first place. I could see Ephram saying that he didn't want to be the person that Andy had been in New York and that being there for people that you care about was more important than piano or even brain surgery.

Honestly, I've never heard someone bring up such a scenario before. Well done. I love this so much. I love the angle of going through the audition (so many hated that he didn't embrace the audition) and then go there with putting love ones first. Like you said, what an incredibly challenging situation because there's no way Andy couldn't be proud of his son for coming to such a brilliant decision, but at the same time, in his mind he would see it as Ephram losing a great opportunity... but with the twist of Andy thinking about his own life and how he put work in front of family back in NYC. What a brilliant scenario. You should have been the lead writer/producer of the show, Berlanti would have praised your ideas and mind.

I also think that this would have been another good way to explore where home was for Ephram because I thought that this was one of the main themes of the show. He obviously got pulled away from NYC against his will and I'm sure that his initial feeling was that he would get back as soon as he could. His shift away from that was established well in Season 1 in that he had such a connection with Amy (even before they had ever dated) that he decided to make Everwood his home when he had the potential opportunity to leave. I think that staying for college in this situation could have been the natural progression of his decision in season 1 and showed that home for him was really wherever Amy was.

Such a great point, as it would have added to the amazing conversation in the finale of 1 between Ephram and Amy and the Home thing. It is one thing to say it, but quite another to actually LIVE it and under your scenario, that is precisely what would've taken place.

I would also have liked to see Harold's reaction to this decision because he was definitely upset with the idea of Amy potentially following Ephram to school earlier in the season. While his obsession with Princeton over other Ivies was pretty funny, I understood his concern about not wanting her to lose too much of herself in a relationship. He probably would have appreciated someone doing that for his daughter if the situation was reversed but it would have been interesting given his previous feelings about the situation.

Oh yes, Harold's reaction would have been so great to see. So many dream conversations between Harold/Amy, Harold/Andy and even Harold/Ephram. It would have been spectacular.

I could also see the potential for conflict between Ephram/Amy down the road because I could see him rethinking his decision if he misses playing at some point and this would probably have been something that they might have had to navigate in season four.

Absolutely. This would have been the challenging, high quality option/route to go in instead of the cheap babygate/Madisongate crap that artificially (and thankfully, temporarily) split up the main pairings in Andy/Ephram and Ephram/Amy while Ephram bolted for Europe, essentially running away. Under your scenario, it would have been challenging and interesting without the soap opera drama.

The end of season 3 was really the only part of the series that I didn't enjoy because all three of the characters that I felt most invested in (Ephram, Andy, Amy) had their lives falling apart and Amy was the only one of the three where the damage didn't seem self-inflicted. I understood Ephram's anger towards Andy/Madison but the way that he took it out on Amy felt really out of character from the way that he was during the rest of the series.

100% agree. It was really out of character and like you said, goes against everything we knew about Ephram and his feelings for Amy up until this point. I really wonder who constructed the end of season 3. Was it Rina only or did Berlanti contribute as well? Ephram's identity was lost a bit during this time period which makes me wonder if it was primarily Rina calling the shots. I am not sure I can see Berlanti coming up with this idea and actually going there. It seems too extreme and off the path for me. There's moments during this time period I can hardly even watch because it gets me so frustrated. Ephram not seeing a forever comes to mind. I really dislike that scene and as an enormous Ephram/Amy shipper, it makes me feel strange to dislike an Ephram/Amy scene so much. But like you mentioned, this time period wasn't even Ephram, he seemed very out of character. Ephram just leaving (after breaking up with Amy) knowing Rose was diagnosed with cancer simply blows me away. He understood how tough it was for his best friend in Bright and love of his life in Amy going through the battle of losing their childhood friend in Colin. Many of those feelings about life and death would come up again for them with their mother's cancer diagnosis yet Ephram just took off like he didn't care. It was so wrong and frustrating even if he was upset and hurt. It was so tough to watch, let alone, accept.

This post ended up being much longer than I expected it to but I definitely would have enjoyed this storyline more than the way it happened on the show. I'd also have given Ephram an age-appropriate girlfriend that he didn't impregnate in Season 2 so the pregnancy stuff wouldn't have played out at all in my scenario.

Haha, completely agree and the bold is so funny and totally true!

Madison entering the screen and essentially messing up characters and dynamics was the biggest mistake of the series. Ephram definitely should have dated someone who wasn't an adult, wasn't a complete idiot, who caused us frustration from the moment she entered the screen and basically on and off throughout the rest of the series.

Erasing Madison and the baby storyline in your scenario feels perfect!

[Jerry D]

Here is my opinion of some of the storylines that we heard were being proposed for a Season Five of Everwood:

Ephram and Madison: I think that Madison was coming back to get Ephram to go along with her plan for her to get custody of their child, which she had given up for adoption. I think that she would have wanted to involve Ephram in this ploy because although she had signed away the rights to her child, he hadn’t so theoretically she would probably ask him to assert his parental rights to their child, but I think that Ephram would refuse her request, and I think we’d see a lot of drama between them, and Ephram might shut down again for a while in the aftermath.

Ephram and Hannah: The only scenario that I could envision where Ephram and Hannah would get together is if Ephram turned to Hannah in the aftermath of Madisongate Part II, but if they had any type of a romantic relationship, it would destroy the key friendships and relationships on the show, (Bright and Ephram, Hanna and Amy and Ephram and Amy) and it would have been a complete disaster all around, because all the trust between these characters would have been destroyed.

Nina being pregnant with Jake’s child: This would have been another really unwelcome storyline because it would bring Jake back and have Nina torn between her feelings for Andy and the father of her child, and it would have been yet another soap-opera like storyline that I wouldn’t have wanted to see.

[Jerry D]

Welcome to this message board and to Fan Forum, zjt! Your thoughts were excellent.