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Old 06-09-2009, 03:27 PM
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The Everwood Rewatch Fest: "Turf Wars" (S1, Ep. 9)

We'll keep this up for one week and then go on to the next episode. After you've watched the episode, you can comment on it anyway you'd like, big or small. You can focus on certain characters, scenes, quotes, or the episode as a whole. You can tie the episode to the rest of the series, or comment about it as a self-contained episode. It's all up to you! You can always give your thoughts after the one week period, as all rewatch threads will stay open for more thoughts and anymore discussion. Thanks!

Turf Wars

Written By: Rina Mimoun
Directed By: Steve Gomer

Quote:
Original Air Date—11 November 2002
Andy's parenting skills are questioned when Ephram and Delia's grandparents pay them an unexpected visit to check up on their son-in-law. Meanwhile, Ephram sneaks out of the house to see Amy who is still emotionally recovering from the aftermath of Colin's surgery.
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If you haven't already, please feel free to comment on our previous episodes:

The Pilot
The Great Doctor Brown
Friendly Fire
The Kissing Bridge
Deer God
The Doctor Is In
We Hold These Truths
Till Death Do Us Part
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:28 PM
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I always liked the actors who played the grandparents a lot. I really do wish, probably above anyone, that they came back. They really could have been used a lot more. They're not just a reminder of Julia, they're not just a stumbling block to Andy/Ephram, they're grandparents! Come on. Even just more Nonny and Edna fun. That could be a sitcom right there!

Do people in small towns REALLY leave their doors unlocked?

Jacob's "This kid's good" to Ben saying he can't go to the fly-fishing with his dad is genius.

The way that Jacob talks about Andy to Ephram, undermining Andy behind his back, just makes my skin crawl. Andy may not always be the father he's trying to be, but MAN this guy...I'm actually surprised that Ephram doesn't think it's more awkward that this man is taking shots at his father every ten seconds. I mean, I know he doesn't like Andy all the time either, but wouldn't that make you uncomfortable?

And like Jacob's frickin' parenting would work for more than five minutes. Being Ephram's pal? Come on, he wouldn't last ten seconds in Andy's shoes with the crap that Andy has to put up with from Ephram. He wouldn't know how to handle the snark, the yelling. He just hasn't seen any of it because he's only been around the kid for less than 20 hours when he's in a good mood. AGH! He just frustrates the out of me, how high and mighty he comes off. Ephram would be pulling the exact same stuff if he was in New York with Jacob as a father figure and Nonny as the mother figure. Andy isn't the problem. At this point, Ephram is. Jacob is making things work with Ephram during a two day vacation, which is the first time he's seen Ephram in months, taking a shot at Ephram's enemy #1 every chance he gets, and is a man that Ephram doesn't have to fight with because he's got Andy there as a buffer. I could have the kind of dynamic that Jacob and Ephram have if I had all that going for me.

Whew! Now I know how Betty feels with the frustration with Amy's treatment towards Ephram. Or how Thief feels with Amy all the time, heh.

There are some rude people in Everwood. First, Reverand Keyes basically shoves Andy out the door in the last episode, and now the MEOW turns on the TV while Andy is talking. I don't like Nonny's attitude towards Edna much, but man..maybe this place does need a few lessons in manners. Although that scene between Edna and Nonny when Delia is asleep is beautiful stuff.

Ah, Ephram butting into the Colin/Amy/Harts thing. Like father, like son.

"She'll forget her. She's too young. How will she remember how lucky she was?" Maybe Nonny isn't so full of the wisdom she thinks she is. From the very first episode until the last, from the hats to the crush on Bright, from Britney and the in-crowd, from the cute lines to the temper tantrums, the one thing that will always stay constant for Delia Brown is that hold to her mother.

Alright, since I want to currently stab Jacob Hoffman in the eye with the pen on my desk, I think I should go back on my desire to have the grandparents back. I don't think I could take it. Maybe Nonny.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)
The way that Jacob talks about Andy to Ephram, undermining Andy behind his back, just makes my skin crawl. Andy may not always be the father he's trying to be, but MAN this guy...I'm actually surprised that Ephram doesn't think it's more awkward that this man is taking shots at his father every ten seconds. I mean, I know he doesn't like Andy all the time either, but wouldn't that make you uncomfortable?
I still have to rewatch the episode....but I don't remember actually seeing Jacob criticising Andy in front of Ephram. I remember the criticism being done in private?

I really felt for the Hoffmans. Can you imagine how difficult it was for them? They lost their daughter....I don't think there could be a greater heartbreak than losing your child. Here we have their grandchildren...taken away from them across the country...by a dad that really didn't do much for them up until this time.
The Hoffmans had to invite themselves to visit their own grandchildren. I can honestly see why Jacob wanted to have a piece of Ephram in New York....especially when he saw how unhappy he was. I'm sure that broke his heart.

Quote:
And like Jacob's frickin' parenting would work for more than five minutes. Being Ephram's pal? Come on, he wouldn't last ten seconds in Andy's shoes with the crap that Andy has to put up with from Ephram. He wouldn't know how to handle the snark, the yelling. He just hasn't seen any of it because he's only been around the kid for less than 20 hours when he's in a good mood. dynamic that Jacob and Ephram have if I had all that going for me.
I don't know if there would be the same snark with Jacob. Ephram seemed to have much more respect for his grandfather than for Andy. Jacob didn't yell at Ephram (which really doesn't work!). He talked to him. Remember in the grocery story? He told Ephram that his behavior was childish. Ephram seemed to understand. That is probably the best way to handle Ephram. Speak your peace calmly, reasonably, and assertively.....Ephram wouldn't have a chance to snark!
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:14 AM
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I still have to rewatch the episode....but I don't remember actually seeing Jacob criticising Andy in front of Ephram. I remember the criticism being done in private?
He criticizes Andy about not getting a piano teacher for Ephram infront of Ephram, saying somethings a father should just do. It's probably a fair criticism, but you don't do it infront of the son, undermining his father's ability to be a father. And he mocks Andy's new lifestyle infront of Ephram, and asks pointed questions about how Andy's parenting and all that. It just annoys me!

But I do agree that I feel sorry for the Hoffmans, I really do. It's a tragic story all around and there isn't really any bad guys, I just think Jacob's way of getting to Ephram and undermining Andy is just screwing up an already messed up situation. But I don't blame him for what he's doing, I just want to smack him for it.

And I also agree that yelling isn't how you deal with Ephram, but I really don't think Jacob's style works long-term. Remember that Ephram hasn't seen his grandparents in ages, and you treat people differently when you don't see them for a long time. You treat someone differently that doesn't live in your house, or someone that doesn't have to make the rules for you. Jacob has that advantage. He loses it in New York, and I'm not sure that talking to Ephram calmly would still work when he does now make the rules, and Ephram has to follow them and doesn't like them. He's treating him with respect with the assumption that Jacob is leaving soon. Jacob doesn't have any authority now, and he's not a threat to Ephram getting what he wants, but he would be if he makes the rules. Andy has tried talking to Ephram calmly, but it comes with varied success. I think Jacob's style would work for a time, but we're seeing his parenting style work in a situation where he has all the advantages and there is no reason for Ephram to go against him. In New York, that all changes. And I think Jacob's effectiveness would too.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)
He criticizes Andy about not getting a piano teacher for Ephram infront of Ephram, saying somethings a father should just do. It's probably a fair criticism, but you don't do it infront of the son, undermining his father's ability to be a father. And he mocks Andy's new lifestyle infront of Ephram, and asks pointed questions about how Andy's parenting and all that. It just annoys me!
I'm going to watch for those scenes...I forget!

Quote:
I just want to smack him for it.
Yeah, Jacob did have a kind of "Know it all" attitude that was annoying. But then...he was the perfect dad, husband, and doctor! And he even did the food shopping!


Quote:
And I also agree that yelling isn't how you deal with Ephram, but I really don't think Jacob's style works long-term. Remember that Ephram hasn't seen his grandparents in ages, and you treat people differently when you don't see them for a long time. You treat someone differently that doesn't live in your house, or someone that doesn't have to make the rules for you. Jacob has that advantage
.

I was kind of giving Ephram the benefit of the doubt. I was assuming that Ephram had a belligerent personality because of his disfunctional homelife(absent father). I really figured Ephram to be the type to treat people nicely that he respected. (his grandfather). At this time....he felt no respect for Andy.

I also felt that when Andy spoke calmly to Ephram...Ephram listened. Remember the time that Andy explained to Ephram how he really felt about Ephram leaving and how much he would miss him? He did it in a calm manner. Ephram listened and re-thought his plans.

Quote:
In New York, that all changes. And I think Jacob's effectiveness would too.

It would have been interesting if we saw that. Ephram actually leaving....then having to come back because he was a handful and the Hoffmans gave up!
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
I'm going to watch for those scenes...I forget!
Hee, well, I've got this anti-Jacob agenda going when I watch, so that's probably why I notice them so much.

Quote:
Yeah, Jacob did have a kind of "Know it all" attitude that was annoying. But then...he was the perfect dad, husband, and doctor! And he even did the food shopping!
He also walks, jogs and does push ups on water according to Andy, hee.

Quote:
I was kind of giving Ephram the benefit of the doubt. I was assuming that Ephram had a belligerent personality because of his disfunctional homelife(absent father). I really figured Ephram to be the type to treat people nicely that he respected. (his grandfather). At this time....he felt no respect for Andy.
True enough, he really doesn't respect poor Andy. Not many people in town seem to respect him, though, so at least Ephram's not alone! But, I also think that Ephram has a tendency to say things before he thinks. He gets emotional, and just comes out with things. Hence the snark to Andy. He's also a teenager, and when Jacob tells him he can't do something, I really do think that Ephram is going to go against him at times. But, not as much as he goes against Andy, and I think that has to do with the lack of respect as you pointed out.

Quote:
I also felt that when Andy spoke calmly to Ephram...Ephram listened. Remember the time that Andy explained to Ephram how he really felt about Ephram leaving and how much he would miss him? He did it in a calm manner. Ephram listened and re-thought his plans.
Right, and it does work quite a bit. Andy always tries to talk to Ephram calmly at first, though, and then he gets snarked at (often unfairly), then he gets upset, and then it goes onto a yelling match, hee. I do think that Andy tries to talk to Ephram calmly and kindly most of the time, but he doesn't get anything back. Because of that lack of respect, yes. I guess I just take Andy's side a lot of the time against Ephram in season one, as you can tell with this thread.


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It would have been interesting if we saw that. Ephram actually leaving....then having to come back because he was a handful and the Hoffmans gave up!
Oh, it so would have!
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:59 AM
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Hee, I think we're going to have to extend this one, because I think we're ALL looking forward to tomorrow and S2, and it'll take a few days to get back to, uh, looking back at S1.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:19 PM
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Here are some thoughts on the episode:

  • Funny exchange in the beginning of the episode: Andy: "Because it smells good." Ephram: "That's why we were suspicious."
  • Ruth claims that there is no airport shuttle. Then why was Ephram able to take one to the airport season 3 (when he went to Europe)?
  • Amy really pissed me off when she replied to Ephram (after he mentioned the mine kiss): "That was an accident...let's not talk about it."
  • Then she threw in Ephram's face the fact that she's going to be in Denver staying with Colin every weekend. (I knew there was a reason that I disliked Amy for most of season one.
  • Ben's dad really pissed me off. How selfish he was. I understand that over eating is an addiction....but....couldn't he see how much he son was suffering. He could have at least tried to help himself for his son's sake
.
  • Yes, I noticed that Jacob did criticise Andy in front of Ephram. But he did reprimand Ephram at one point: "Don't talk to your father like that."
  • I felt badly for Andy several times this episode....one of the times was when Ephram refused Andy, but agreed to go flyfishing when Jacob asked. The look on Andy's face broke my heart. And then....they left and never ate Andy's waffles.
  • I never cared for Colin's mother. I realize that she was concerned for her son.....but....here was this girl who worshiped her son....stayed loyal to him for months while he was in a coma....and she tells this girl to leave the hospital and not come back? That was cruel. She could have handled it differently.
  • I like Edna's line: "Between dirt on my face and spit on my face, I'd take the dirt.
  • Jacob definitely planted Ephram's decision to go back to New York in his mind when he asked him to think about what he wanted. That final scene of Andy when he realized that he might be losing Ephram was so heartbreaking.

Last edited by everwoodfan52; 06-21-2009 at 05:33 AM
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:59 PM
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* Yes, I noticed that Jacob did criticise Andy in front of Ephram. But he did reprimand Ephram at one point: "Don't talk to your father like that."
Right. That was good. It's just a mixed message to Ephram to badmouth is father infront of him, argue with him infront of Ephram, and then to tell Ephram that he can't do the same. Jacob just gets my goat. I think he may annoy me more than Madison.


Quote:
I felt badly for Andy several times this episode....one of the times was when Ephram refused Andy, but agreed to go flyfishing when Jacob asked. The look on Andy's face broke my heart. And then....they left and never ate Andy's waffles.
Seriously. Andy is trying so hard, and then here comes Jacob who doesn't even need to try.

What do you think about the grandmother, Betty? Nonny I think, I can never spell that. Unless I just did, heh.

Maybe it's good that we're taking so insanely long to get to the next episode, because I don't know if I ever want to see Jacob again, and he's about to get much more annoying next episode!

Anyone else interested in posting thoughts? No rush, obviously, and with S2 out, we're all watching that, but at some point I'd like to get this going again.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:50 PM
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What do you think about the grandmother, Betty? Nonny I think, I can never spell that. Unless I just did, heh.
I liked her. I think that she was genuinely fond of Andy and was much more understanding and diplomatic with him. She seemed prim and proper....but I believe that she was a strong woman who could probably take Edna on.
I also felt for her and her grief. It must have been heartbreaking for her.



ETA: To all of you who said that you were interested in participating in a rewatch.......Where are you?????

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Old 06-23-2009, 08:58 PM
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I liked her. I think that she was genuinely fond of Andy and was much more understanding and diplomatic with him. She seemed prim and proper....but I believe that she was a strong woman who could probably take Edna on.
I also felt for her and her grief. It must have been heartbreaking for her.
Agreed. She was the nice one. I would have really liked to have seen her back, and being able to relate to Delia more as she (sadly) grew out of the tomboy phase. I think the Nonny would be disappointed by that, actually. Still, she would have been happy to see that Delia never did forget Julia like she was worried about. She should have been there for the Batmitzvah. Long before then, but..well, I've already said enough about her not being there for The Unveiling!
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:34 AM
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What!? I made a post way on the 12th! Where'd it go!?!?

Anyway, I don't think I agree about Jacob. Sure he could be an asshat. And his snide little remarks towards Andy were unnecessary. But I feel bad for the guy, he lost his daughter, never saw his grandchildren, and knew that Andy neglected her. He's got a lot of built up anger inside him that he probably never let out, so him doing all that he did here is...not okay, but I can see why he did it.

His and Andy's final conversation was really good though. Good writing from Mimoun. Same for Ruth and Delia's scene in the kitchen.

"I didn't know you moonlighted as a condom." HA!
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:52 AM
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"I didn't know you moonlighted as a condom." HA!
The funny thing about that line is that when Ephram said it to Bright, Bright actually looked down at himself to see if he really looked like a condom.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:23 PM
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Your post disappeared, shadow? That's so weird! Maybe it got eaten by the FF servers!

I think the Jacob-hate is just my thing, hee. I totally agree with what you guys are saying about why he's doing what he's doing and it's so true, but I still can't stand him. I'm a cold-hearted person, apparently, hee.
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Old 09-08-2009, 05:15 PM
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OK I'm skipping over a couple of eps in my posts because hubby and I just watched Turf Wars and Is There a Doctor in the House last night.

'Tos, you are definitely not alone in the Jacob hate. I spend most of these two eps wanting to smack his teeth back into his head. I don't have a problem with his anger toward Andy, because it's absolutely true that for the first several years Andy neglected Julia and their children, but Jacob came to EW with an agenda and he refused to sit back and watch long enough to see that Andy realized his mistakes and was honestly trying to do better. All of the "Even the new Andy?" snips Jacob made to Ephram were just completely unnecessary and did nothing but further strain an already strained relationship.

Moving on.

Forgive me if I mix up the two eps a little. We watched them back to back so they kind of blur together.

Edna v. Nonny - that was pure gold. I love how even though they were so vastly different and didn't mind snipping at each other, they were still able to bond over their shared loved for Delia.

I know Amy is probably hated for her "Maybe you should move on, Ephram" but I think she had a point and he needed to hear it. That's not to say I didn't cheer him on for throwing it back in her face later in the grocery store, hee.

Colin's mom - MAN I really hated her in this episode. Did she just so totally forget that it was AMY that got the ball rolling for the surgery and it was AMY who took a four hour bus to Denver every weekend to visit a boy who didn't even know he was still alive? Yes Amy needed to back off a little bit and let Colin come into things more slowly, and yes Amy spending the night at the hospital was a little much, but she was downright cruel and it just wasn't necessary.

I really, really hated the MEoW story in this episode. Gastric bypass is NOT a surgery that's to be taken lightly, and contrary to popular belief not every fat person has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Andy didn't even do any health testing on the guy, he just took one look at him and made a decision. Grrrr.

Reading about Hebrew school in the religion thread, I realize that they missed a good opportunity for Nonny or Jacob to bring up Hebrew school for Delia. Even if Andy didn't know she should be going, they certainly would have and it would have seemed a little less like they were only there to take Ephram away, if they had brought up that there was something more Andy should be doing for Delia too. Ah, well.
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