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Old 10-06-2017, 08:10 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
They do take sexual harassment in the workplace very seriously here in the United States. Once a year they have someone come to our office to give us mandatory training on it. We're getting that training later this month.
They really do. One of the best things about this country. It is simply not tolerated. No one gets away with it.

How wonderful that they give mandatory training on it at your workplace, too. At the U of M, obviously it's a very relaxed atmosphere but human resources still makes sure we all understand what is up. My first job out of college I worked for a health center/behavior services company and out of 5 people, I was the only woman, and the other four were all older men too. I still couldn't have felt more comfortable because of the protection and awareness we receive in our country.
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:20 AM
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. I think that this is where culture plays a part in it. Like you said in your country this is not normal and people know that this is not normal. So you know that whoever says it really does it on purpose and of course you would not see a point in talking to that person. You know that they really mean it. In my country this is not always the case. Sometimes people really do joke in a bad way and when I tell them that they crossed a line they apologize and do not do it again.
It is definitely all about different cultures.

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Agree that considering this setup it's offensive .



You noted something very important - she was OK with those things. For her this was not offensive. And that does play a part I think. For me this is where USA and Europe differ quite a lot. I am not saying who is right or wrong here. I am just saying that there is huge difference. An american woman I believe would feel quite shocked or offended in most of European offices. On the other hand European man would feel weird in American office and quite often would be WTF are they talking about.
For sure.

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This is definitely not OK. At least in our country. We do not have laws like you do, but definitely such behavior is not encouraged and that guy would get reprimanded at least if the woman would report him. The thing is would the woman report him?
Oh yes, the woman would report him in this country. We are prepared for it, we do not tolerate it. Period. The good news is it rarely happens because of the mentality here and the protection we have in the workplace. If the woman doesn't report and is out for getting compliments and thrills then she'd be fired for not concentrating on her work. LOL Either way something will be done.

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Do you have regulations about this in your country? For example is it normal to have dress code or stuff like that? I am just curious because I have the impression both of those things do not exist in your office. Meaning that women dress appropriately at work and men do not cross the line, but I still wanted to check with you.
We do have regulations for sure or just common sense too.

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In Europe I would say that this is not always the case. I see both. I see men acting like a$$es and women trying to use their feminine side (in the most literal sense) to advance at work. Both for me are not OK.
Yes, it's very different here. Of course you have the rare idiotic people (so rare I've never even heard of a story), most certainly, but the laws here in the workplace are strict and everyone knows about them.

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Yeah that is also something that I dislike. And I would say that this hugely depends on the environment. If you are around construction guys they act like that. At least in my country. If you are in a place like ours having men acting like that is the exception so you notice it quite fast. But then again I have seen quite often the female HR not just encouraging such conversations, but also starting them. And in that case I don't just blame the men, but also the women that encourage such conversations.

Part of the problem in Europe is that there women actually encourage sometimes wrong behavior. And this is why American women would be so out of place in Europe and feel like completely mistreated. A lot of stuff that European women find as normal are not normal for American women. And those women not just encourage men at work, they actually raise also their sons to behave like that. Dealing with sexism and racism happens in the family in the way the parents act and the way they raise their kids.
Makes sense.
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:01 AM
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Part of the problem in Europe is that there women actually encourage sometimes wrong behavior. And this is why American women would be so out of place in Europe and feel like completely mistreated. A lot of stuff that European women find as normal are not normal for American women. And those women not just encourage men at work, they actually raise also their sons to behave like that. Dealing with sexism and racism happens in the family in the way the parents act and the way they raise their kids.
The only European country I'm familiar with is The Netherlands and I guess I am glad that my daughter works for an American school. I'm not sure how women are treated in the workplace there..but I will ask her about her female friends who work there.
What I do know about this country is that there is no sexism in the home. The terms Dutch Treat or going Dutch is there for a reason. Husbands and wives share the household duties..including taking care of the children and household chores. Paternity leaves are part of the culture.
This summer when Nadine's Dutch boyfriend came to visit and stay at our beach house I saw this way in action. He was not happy unless he contributed. He insisted on going food shopping with me when we got there...needed to buy everything that first day. He insisted on paying..bill was almost $200. He insisted on helping at the house...couldn't just sit while Nadine and I cleaned. So...we gave him a couple of jobs to make him happy. He was our sweeper. lol We needed his service alot because there was always sand being brought in! He was also our garbage/recycling person and insisted on helping with the cooking.
This is my introduction to a European man, and this one is OK!
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:14 AM
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I'm sure it depends on the country in Europe. There's a stereotype that the Dutch are pretty racist as a rule. Is that true? Not sure but it's out there. I've heard horror stories about the workplaces in France right from someone in France and you know her too. Koni has shared many stories about the people she works with in France and how they operate as a business. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Germany would have a workplace closer to what we experience in the States. I just can't see the Germans tolerating this sort of thing but I could be way off.

That is the thing... we have a president in Trump that is a sexist on his own. However, we are a big country and have laws in place that still would keep the sexism in the workplace strict and not tolerated. I love this fact. I think some people believe since Trump's in office it's complete anarchy and everything changes. No, it really doesn't. We still have very good laws in place in the workplace and that is here to stay. My concern with Trump is the situation in North Korea and the two crazy leaders going at it head to head. That is my concern. Well, that and our ridiculously loose gun laws.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:19 AM
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I'm sure it depends on the country in Europe. There's a stereotype that the Dutch are pretty racist as a rule. Is that true? Not sure but it's out there. I've heard horror stories about the workplaces in France right from someone in France and you know her too. Koni has shared many stories about the people she works with in France and how they operate as a business. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Germany would have a workplace closer to what we experience in the States. I just can't see the Germans tolerating this sort of thing but I could be way off.

That is the thing... we have a president in Trump that is a sexist on his own. However, we are a big country and have laws in place that still would keep the sexism in the workplace strict and not tolerated. I love this fact. I think some people believe since Trump's in office it's complete anarchy and everything changes. No, it really doesn't. We still have very good laws in place in the workplace and that is here to stay. My concern with Trump is the situation in North Korea and the two crazy leaders going at it head to head. That is my concern. Well, that and our ridiculously loose gun laws.
My uncle raised his kids there and he had no problems and he lived in the country side. Holland is very laissez-faire.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:28 AM
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My uncle raised his kids there and he had no problems and he lived in the country side. Holland is very laissez-faire.
I'm glad your uncle and family had zero problems. That's great.

I think it's a silent type of issue...

Read this: The Real Truth About Dutch Racism: Life as a Moroccan | HuffPost UK

From what I've read it's very "in the closest" and the thing is when you go on Europeans sites people will talk about this which is why it was brought to my attention. Europeans are even saying there's a racism issue. That and the Santa thing they do...

The Dutch don’t think it’s racist for Santa to have black slaves

I think people believe since the country is super liberal in many areas it cannot possibly have racism and that is actually the problem.

I think many know it's a problem though: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-2...ildren/8140220

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Old 10-06-2017, 12:45 PM
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I'm sure it depends on the country in Europe. There's a stereotype that the Dutch are pretty racist as a rule. Is that true? .
I don't know. I do know that the people I met there are not. I guess there is racism there like the racism we have in this country. Let's face it...racism is pretty widespread.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:54 PM
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I don't know. I do know that the people I met there are not. I guess there is racism there like the racism we have in this country. Let's face it...racism is pretty widespread.
Yes, it's everywhere. I just can't wrap my brain around that Santa thing though. I find it weird and it makes me uncomfortable. Maybe I am missing something though. You should ask your daughter about it and see what she says. She would absolutely know the truth on what it is having lived there for so long and not a native either so she'd have a perfect understanding of what it's all about.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:54 PM
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I'm going to ask Nadine about this.


ETA: We got the same idea at the same time. lol
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:55 PM
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I'm going to ask Nadine about this.
Betty, look at my post above. LOL How scary. We were thinking the same once again.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:56 PM
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I'm going to ask Nadine about this.


ETA: We got the same idea at the same time. lol
We also just posted at the same time about having the same idea at the same time.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:57 PM
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Betty, look at my post above. LOL How scary. We were thinking the same once again.
Look at my ETA above!
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:58 PM
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Look at my ETA above!
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Old 10-06-2017, 01:23 PM
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Racism is everywhere primarily because a lot of these countries were or are imperialist. Imperial alien fee off racism than maintainer those attitudes via extreme nationalism.
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:05 PM
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I want racism and sexism to go away permanently. I guess that's too much to ask. I don't need to live and dance on clouds and have everyone holding hands getting along perfectly. I know that's impossible. We wouldn't be human if we were able to go there. I just wish the basics were a given like skin color and gender shouldn't fcking matter. If people viewed things Spiritually they'd see that everyone's Soul is the same... not white, brown, black, red, purple, male or even female for that matter. We are all the same.
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