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Old 02-02-2018, 06:42 PM
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Everwood Fans who are Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie Fans of DC #15: Even Kevin Williamson's very own mother hated the ending.



This is an appreciation thread for Everwood fans who are also Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie fans. For those who shipped these pairings, the series once had such great promise, but ended up being one of the most disappointing series to date. TPTB enjoyed manipulating the heart and soul of the old school (seasons 1/2) Dawson's Creek audience, who embraced the premise and the main pairings of the show, Dawson/Joey and Pacey/Andie fans. The first two seasons defined Dawson's Creek. Season 3 came along and the show simply wasn't the same anymore. New showrunner who essentially mocked the premise, destroyed the main pairings, and was basically just fine with dropping the quality in order to make the series his own. We know the drill. Discussing our main pairings, as well frustrations over storylines, writing, TPTB, fandom in general, is also welcome here.

Note: This is not a debate thread with other ships. This thread is strictly for Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie fans to appreciate the pairings and discuss aspects of the show, both good and bad. This thread was originally created to celebrate friendships between a couple of regulars on the Everwood board who, back in the day, posted on the Dawson's Creek board and encountered some terrible fan wars and not so great moments. We wanted a safe place to discuss our thoughts here on the Everwood board. That is how this thread was created. Jerry D, our amazing Administrator, and my very good friend, came up with the idea and the rest is history. For those of you who ship other pairings and don't agree with the content of this thread, of course there's the Dawson's Creek board and other threads scattered throughout Fan Forum perfectly designed for you.

Thanks!








Credit Xelphia Kenny:






Alternate S5 & S6 : He made a solemn promise he would come and visit her. Hell, he even jotted it down in indelible black ink onto the crisp pages of her brand new journal while wearing a big toothy grin on his face, but regardless, it had been months since Pacey had made any contact with Andie. Andie forced herself not to overthink it and chalked it up to life getting in the way, but the smallest embers inside of her heart that yearned for him still despite everything that happened between them started to prickle at the back of her head. Although once the orientation process at Harvard was over and the real work began, Andie’s thoughts of Pacey Witter were sidelined in order to make room for the mountains and mountains of schoolwork she was receiving on a daily basis.

That was until, out of the blue, Pacey literally came sailing back into her life looking tanned, well rested, and even more gorgeous. Andie vowed to never let herself fall back in love with Pacey, she made an ironclad pledge to herself to never stray back into that hornet’s nest, but his soft, warm gaze pointed in her direction had Andie convinced his heart was remembering the way it used to love her.

She was one hundred percent correct in her assumptions.

The laughter between them settled into a deep warmth and easiness, and they talked well into the wee hours of the night and gradually, the intimacy they once coveted as a couple so long ago had returned to their bodies in triplicate. It started with Pacey’s hand brushing up against hers when she handed him a magazine from a convenience store shelf, which then evolved into their hugs becoming longer and more needy each time they touched. Soon enough, Pacey did the unthinkable, and asked Andie a question she never thought she’d hear again in her life from him…

Pacey Witter had asked her out on a date.

At first, they had both agreed to not invest too much of themselves into the date, stating an urge to take things as slow as they could in order to protect themselves from any harmful fallout, but Pacey and Andie’s mutually intense bedroom eyes that screamed “make love to me.” seemed to tell another story altogether. The immense pain of potentially opening up old wounds over how their relationship crumbled in the past fell to the wayside as Pacey and Andie ended up having passionate, raw, soul searing sex in Andie’s shower. Every single iota of mistrust, devastating heartbreak, and bad memories in their past circled its way down the drain.

And as Andie sat by her vanity, drying her hair and watching Pacey getting ready for bed, she smiled to herself. At long last, she finally felt like she could breathe again.




Fic Links that TL22 supplied and commented on:


1.Kiss Me Chapter 1, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction

This takes place at the end of season four. It's my very first P/A story. two short chapters. My version on how the graduation could/should have went.

2.Thanksgiving, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction

A short interlude of what could have happened between seasons three and four.

3.Finding True Love Chapter 1, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction

Fourteen chapters of what could have happened in the future. I wrote it over two years. The story starts season three when Pacey is getting ready to sail away. The end of chapter one has a unique twist, I think you'll enjoy.

The following is by ElizabethBella who wrote a fantastic Pacey/Andie story. (My favourite)

Come Sail Away Chapter 1: Separate, and apart, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction
This is a multi chaptered story, you won't be able to put down.

The next is another one of my favourites written by the very talented StevieLuvsAlex

No amount of time, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction

The next is a two part Pacey/Andie story written by me and StevieLuvsAlex. The first part is hers and the second part written by me won't make any sense if the first part is not read. Very very short

Everything happens for a reason, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction
Written by StevieluvsAlex

Everything Happens For a Reason part Two, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction
Written by me and takes up where Everything Happens For a Reason leaves off

https://www.fanfiction.net/story/sto...toryid=7420836

This is a glimpse of Pacey, Andie, Joey and Dawson when they were very young. The story is two parts..

The next link is by the author Makesmyheadspin. IT is a bitter sweet story and really captures Pacey and Andie.

Springsteen, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction

Fate is The Hunter, a dawson's creek fanfic | FanFiction
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:44 PM
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Last Page of Posts from previous thread
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:45 PM
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Rachel, check out this post. Wondering what your thoughts are on what we discussed:

Everwood Fans who are Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie Fans of DC #14: It eventually became Joey's Creek.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:10 PM
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Neither did I. The thought of it actually depresses me. It would have been such a horribly boring, even unhealthy life for Peyton. Thankfully Jake knew better.
Yeah, it really would have been and I'm glad it didn't happen.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:20 PM
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I'm going to watch some Season One One Tree Hill episodes over the next few weeks.
Awesome
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:28 PM
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I wanted to share something that I wrote about the character of Joey at the end of Season Three:

Quote:
In recent weeks, I’ve been reflecting on Dawson’s Creek, and I’ve tried to focus in on what has disappointed me most of all since Season One captivated me like no show ever has. After weighing everything out, what’s disappointed me most of all is what the writers have done to the character of Joey Potter. If you objectively compare the Joey Potter of Season One to the Joey Potter of Seasons Two and Three, the differences are quite astounding, and very disheartening, in my humble opinion. I myself have been guilty of castigating the actions of her character at times, and I find that quite sad. Therefore, I’d like to recall the character of Joey Potter, and how I feel she’s changed, and not for the better.

In Season One, Joey Potter was introduced to us as a young woman who, beneath her tough and seemingly cynical exterior, hid an endearing vulnerability that instantly made her the main focus of the show, and the character that everyone grew to love and root for. We saw the magic bond that she and Dawson had as friends, and we all felt bad for Joey as Dawson’s attentions focused away from her, and towards the “new girl in town,” Jen Lindley. Joey was at times very harsh to Jen, but we came to understand her harsh behavior in the context that Joey was secretly in love with Dawson, and that Jen , in Joey’s mind, represented a threat to the only part of Joey’s life where she felt safe and secure, having lost her mother to cancer, and her father to prison. In many ways, Dawson, and the Leery’s, had become Joey’s family, and the bond between them was something really unique and wonderful. My heart used to break for Joey when Dawson would prattle on about Jen, completely oblivious to the wonderful girl he had right before his eyes, and sometimes sharing his bed, but Joey found it within herself to offer him good advice about his relationship with Jen when she could have easily sabotaged things between them. Joey remained Dawson’s friend through thick and thin, even as she sacrificed her own feelings in the process. Joey had courage, like the time she stood up to that guy who harassed her, or the time she dispelled false rumors started about herself by another guy, and she had compassion, as she helped Dawson get through his breakup with Jen, and as she helped him cope with the devastating news of his mother’s infidelity. I used to enjoy the good natured banter between Joey and Dawson, as their lively exchanges underscored the deep affection that they had for one another, and I enjoyed the way Joey and Pacey would exchange barbed words, each giving as good as they got. At the time, I saw Joey and Pacey as peripheral friends, and sometimes rivals, having only their mutual friendship with Dawson in common. Even then, though, Pacey proved to be a friend to Joey, even though she barely acknowledged it, saving her from being taken advantage of while she was drunk in “Escape From New York,” and driving her to see her father in “Breaking Away.”

There were also moments of pure magic in Season One, where Joey began to slowly reveal her feelings for Dawson, and Dawson began to slowly realize his feelings for Joey. Think of the kiss in “The Breakfast Club” where Joey, on a dare, kisses Dawson with a passion that, as Abby Morgan so aptly described it, could set the Atlantic Ocean on fire. Or think of when Dawson and Pacey brought a drunken Joey home at the end of “Escape From New York,” and after Dawson tells her “This is probably the wrong time to tell you this but ummm well, maybe it's the perfect time. I realize how incredibly confusing things are between us. I can't even begin to explain our relationship. You probably can't either. But ummm, I just want you to know that umm, if you ever need me, I'll always be here for you. All you ever have to do is ask,” she reaches up and kisses Dawson with the most tender and love filled kiss that I’ve ever seen, leaving Dawson bewildered, but filled with a dawning realization that his best friend loves him. Then, finally, Dawson “took the blinders off” in “Pretty Woman”, as he truly saw Joey as a love interest for the first time, but even then, she had the courage to tell him that she wanted him to love her for who she was, and not for what she looked like, and that she wanted him to realize that what they had was so much more incredible than some passing physical attraction, and Dawson finally rejected Jen for the young woman he truly loved. Then, finally, with the threat of losing Joey, possibly for good, if she went on an exchange program to France, we all were overjoyed when Dawson finally acted on his feelings, and kissed Joey, and the look of sheer joy on her face was a delight to behold, and Season One ended on a truly joyous note, as Joey Potter finally achieved her own well deserved measure of happiness, and won the love of the boy of her dreams.

Since that magical moment, however, Joey Potter, in Seasons Two and Three, became, in my humble opinion, a completely different person, and I, for one, felt that she became a cold and harsh caricature of her former self. We got to witness Joey, after finally getting the relationship she wanted with the boy of her dreams, toss that relationship away before it even had a chance to begin, for the most flimsy of excuses, telling Dawson that she couldn’t be happy with him because she wasn’t happy with herself, and that she needed to “find her something,” alone, breaking his heart for no good reason. Somehow, though, she managed to “find her something” with Jack, dating him almost immediately after her breakup with Dawson, while Dawson wallowed in misery, and then flaunting her relationship with Jack right on the set of Dawson’s movie. I thought that Joey proved herself to be a cold hearted hypocrite by doing all this, and it especially chagrined me when she berated him for the subject of his movie, which basically told the story of his love for her, calling him “self obsessed,” as he tried, in his words, to “cling on for dear life to the one thing that was keeping him going.” I also began to notice a pattern in Joey’s behavior where she would lash out cruelly at the people closest to her, especially Dawson, going, as she so aptly put it, “for the jugular,” but she would never exhibit such cruel behavior with people who actually hurt her more than Dawson ever did, like Jack did when he revealed he was gay. Therefore, with Jack “out of the running” for her affections due to his sexual preference, Joey went literally crying back to Dawson, who willingly accepted her back, only to have her break his heart once again in an incredibly cruel and truculent manner, telling him she “didn’t want to know him” because he had the courage to take the necessary steps to protect her and her family when her father’s heedless foray into the drug world nearly cost them all their lives.

Season Three, in my humble opinion, continued the downward slide of Joey’s character, as she initially offered herself sexually to Dawson when he returned from Philadelphia, and then told him to “go to hell” when he wisely told her they needed some time apart, and that if they had another year like the year before, there would be no love left between them. Then, we got to see a continuing pattern of Joey lashing out cruelly at the people closest to her, then somewhat atoning for her harsh behavior by bringing up a reference to her deceased mother in so many instances. One of the writers on “Dawson’s Wrap” put things perfectly when they satirically commented on Joey’s constant references to her mother by writing: “Air, my mother used to breathe air when she was still alive.” I think my wife put it all in perspective for me when she said that Joey is perpetually angry, and that she no longer enjoys watching her. We also got to see Joey exhibit incredibly self absorbed behavior, proving herself an ingrate to people, like Pacey, who did his level best to help her in any way he could, especially with the Bed and Breakfast which had been “her mother’s dream,” and then treating Pacey incredibly harshly when he defended her honor against the person who had defaced her mural. We also saw, once again, what little consideration she had for the people who cared about her the most, as, in “To Green With Love,” she gave the self absorbed AJ the credit for the rally in support of Principal Green, when it was Pacey who had actually come up with the idea in the first place, and how she missed Pacey’s opening night at his play, knowing how important it was to him that she be there, to go out on a date with AJ. A lot of people faulted Pacey for constantly looking for thanks for the things he did for Joey, but I didn’t, because she never volunteered any thanks for anything he did. Then finally, we got to witness Joey shirk her responsibilities to the sister who had raised her in their parent’s absence and going off with Pacey on Captain Stupin’s “Love Boat,” leaving her sister to run their Bed and Breakfast by herself in the busiest time of year for such an establishment. Then, most insultingly for the Joey Potter we had known, we got to witness Joey become a young woman who was totally unable to make her own decisions, as first Pacey, and then Dawson, vied for her affections, and her love, and her indecision caused both Pacey and Dawson a great deal of pain. I thought it was especially selfish of Joey to sit through the joyous occasion of Mitch and Gail’s wedding looking miserable, until Dawson finally recognized the futility of trying to revive his relationship with her at this point, and he made up her mind for her and sent her towards Pacey. I think it does a real disservice to Joey’s character that she’s become such an indecisive and vacillating young woman, and that she allowed Pacey’s uninvited kiss to stir feelings of passion in her that seemingly never existed before. I also thought it was wrong for her to allow Pacey to force the issue with her under Dawson’s trusting nose at his Aunt Gwen’s house, and then to lie to Dawson and break his heart by not revealing to him that she had feelings for Pacey. Even at the end, right before she ran off to Pacey, Joey seemed to only be concerned that Dawson not hate her, instead of considering the heartbreak she was putting him through, exhibiting behavior that the Joey Potter we had come to know and love in Season One would never have exemplified. I think that the writers have lost sight of the wonderful qualities that Joey Potter had in Season One that made her such a unique and beloved character, and, like they’ve done with almost every other original character on the show with the exception of Jen, they’ve virtually destroyed her character. I truly hope that in Season Four, we get to see the “real” Joey Potter return, and that all the characters on Dawson’s Creek receive some redemption, and return to exhibiting the qualities which had made us care so much about their characters in the first place. As always, I welcome your comments. Thanks!
When I moderated the Dawson's Creek board, I used to write discussion topics, and this was one of them. Little did I know then that the character of Joey Potter would become even worse in the subsequent seasons.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:54 PM
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Interesting read there Jerry.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:09 AM
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Yeah, it really would have been and I'm glad it didn't happen.
Peyton and Jake playing house was like fingers down the chalkboard. Just as bad as Brooke and Lucas and their horribly unhealthy relationship. Both pairings, had they ended up together, would have been sentenced to life in prison with each other.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:10 AM
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Awesome
I second this!

I eagerly await your thoughts on season 1 OTH, Jerry!
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:25 AM
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I wanted to share something that I wrote about the character of Joey at the end of Season Three:



When I moderated the Dawson's Creek board, I used to write discussion topics, and this was one of them. Little did I know then that the character of Joey Potter would become even worse in the subsequent seasons.
Wonderful thoughts.

Teresa was right on about Joey being so angry it was tough to watch. She was really bang on.

As I was reading your post and you were describing season 1 moments, I even got goosebumps remembering all of those moments between Dawson/Joey. Precious, epic scenes. It is incredible thinking about what happened to them as time moved on and Joey moved away from the very person so many cheered for in season 1. I would love to know who decided to write Joey differently in season 2 and beyond. It was such a drastic change and sadly, Kevin was still around somewhat in season 2 so he watched it go down as well. Why? Why change her so much so quickly? You are right, as the seasons continued on, she became more and more insufferable.

To make matters worse, these writers hated writing for women. It wasn't just Joey either... look what they did to Jen and Andie, even Abby for that matter. I never realized it at the time, but the degrading ways they wrote this gender is disgusting. The end of season 3 and that lame triangle really makes me want to poke my eyes out in looking back. When I watched live, all I saw was the horrible actions of Pacey/Joey and how Dawson and Andie took the fall to facilitate Pacey/Joey. The biggest WTF was clearly the misogynistic portrayal.

I've never encountered a TV show before where I can absolutely adore a character in one season and then the following season I don't even believe what I'm watching as the character does a complete 180. For me, it was Joey season 1 and then Joey season 2 and on.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:07 AM
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Peyton and Jake playing house was like fingers down the chalkboard. Just as bad as Brooke and Lucas and their horribly unhealthy relationship. Both pairings, had they ended up together, would have been sentenced to life in prison with each other.
sorry michelle I don't agree with you, but it's ok. LP has no chemistry to hold for me. They also got boring in season 6 for me when I remember watching it. I'd rather see her with Julian or even nathan, don't shoot me. I goet bored of NH and Clay/Quinn later too. again, don't kill me. and I don't like how LP started. Yes BL didn't start great either, but I think Brooke grew more those seasons. Peyton acts so selfish with lucas and is not a good friend to anyone. She only wants him when hes with someone else and she always needs saving with him. Brooke had less issues for Lucas. I'm rewatching season 4 and I'm not seeing how LP is good. again, don't shoot me. but I will look at your thoughts, Michelle.

I don't want nathan and peyton together, but NH gets boring after high school. at least in my opinion. and I know st lavins fellow mod is not a clay or julian fan, but I'm in the minority who is the first season they're introduced. But I like nathan and peyton's friendship and julian and peytons.

In regards to Joey, I have always liked her. I know she makes bad decisions, but thats what's real for me and relatable, but the fact that dawson is the worst and thats all I hear on the net.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:15 PM
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sorry michelle I don't agree with you, but it's ok. LP has no chemistry to hold for me. They also got boring in season 6 for me when I remember watching it. I'd rather see her with Julian or even nathan, don't shoot me. I goet bored of NH and Clay/Quinn later too. again, don't kill me. and I don't like how LP started. Yes BL didn't start great either, but I think Brooke grew more those seasons. Peyton acts so selfish with lucas and is not a good friend to anyone. She only wants him when hes with someone else and she always needs saving with him. Brooke had less issues for Lucas. I'm rewatching season 4 and I'm not seeing how LP is good. again, don't shoot me. but I will look at your thoughts, Michelle.

I don't want nathan and peyton together, but NH gets boring after high school. at least in my opinion. and I know st lavins fellow mod is not a clay or julian fan, but I'm in the minority who is the first season they're introduced. But I like nathan and peyton's friendship and julian and peytons.

In regards to Joey, I have always liked her. I know she makes bad decisions, but thats what's real for me and relatable, but the fact that dawson is the worst and thats all I hear on the net.
I won't get mad. These are your thoughts, you own them!

You mentioned you didn't like how LP got started (which was well before LB)... did you like how BL got started? I know you mentioned they didn't start great either but wouldn't you say they were even worse? Brooke threw herself at Lucas repeatedly. Brooke had to break up what was going on between LP and literally tried pushing Peyton back to Nathan at his party knowing he treated her like crap. Brooke had to take advantage of Lucas drunk, get him a tattoo in order to have sex with him. Then she lies about being pregnant... wouldn't these things add up to a pretty pathetic and unhealthy way LB got started?
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:10 PM
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Wonderful thoughts.

Teresa was right on about Joey being so angry it was tough to watch. She was really bang on.

As I was reading your post and you were describing season 1 moments, I even got goosebumps remembering all of those moments between Dawson/Joey. Precious, epic scenes. It is incredible thinking about what happened to them as time moved on and Joey moved away from the very person so many cheered for in season 1. I would love to know who decided to write Joey differently in season 2 and beyond. It was such a drastic change and sadly, Kevin was still around somewhat in season 2 so he watched it go down as well. Why? Why change her so much so quickly? You are right, as the seasons continued on, she became more and more insufferable.

To make matters worse, these writers hated writing for women. It wasn't just Joey either... look what they did to Jen and Andie, even Abby for that matter. I never realized it at the time, but the degrading ways they wrote this gender is disgusting. The end of season 3 and that lame triangle really makes me want to poke my eyes out in looking back. When I watched live, all I saw was the horrible actions of Pacey/Joey and how Dawson and Andie took the fall to facilitate Pacey/Joey. The biggest WTF was clearly the misogynistic portrayal.

I've never encountered a TV show before where I can absolutely adore a character in one season and then the following season I don't even believe what I'm watching as the character does a complete 180. For me, it was Joey season 1 and then Joey season 2 and on.
What I think happened is several things:
  • I don’t think anyone expected Dawson’s Creek to be so popular and to be renewed because it was a Mid-Season Replacement show on a largely unknown network, so Kevin Williamson put everything into that one season, and it played out like a Mini-Series, with a Beginning, a Middle and a very satisfying End.
  • Once the show was renewed, the writers and producers were faced with the dilemma “What do we do now?” and since Dawson and Joey had kissed at the end of Season One, the “will-they or won’t they” aspect of their relationship was gone, so they broke them up to try and recreate that dynamic, but when they did that, they destroyed their friendship and made both Dawson and Joey look bad, especially Joey, and they destroyed everything that had made them special in the first place.
  • In addition to that, Kevin Williamson’s career outside of Dawson’s Creek took off after Season One, so his involvement in the show pretty much ended after that season, so even though he was ostensibly involved in Season Two, he really wasn’t, and Paul Stupin started running the show and Williamson left the show entirely after Season Two, and the subsequent seasons were a disaster and they increasingly focused on Joey and Pacey and Joey.
  • Katie Holmes became tremendously popular, and she was one of the first actresses to become popular through the Internet with websites devoted to worshipping her, and even we used to have a Katie Holmes website called Katie Holmes Pictures before we stopped hosting websites and we concentrated on just hosting forums after the Media Blvd. split. As a result, I feel that she became jaded and vain, and she started relying on cutesy mannerisms and mugging for the camera instead of doing any real acting.
  • The producers and writers focused more and more on Joey because of Katie’s popularity but like you said Michelle the writers had a misogynistic bent and Joey was reduced to being just a “prize” to be “won” by one of the two main male characters. My understanding is that the entire original writing team was gone by Season Three, as was Kevin Williamson, and that original writing team wrote the female characters in a much better way than the later writing team did.
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There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:48 PM
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Peyton and Jake playing house was like fingers down the chalkboard. Just as bad as Brooke and Lucas and their horribly unhealthy relationship. Both pairings, had they ended up together, would have been sentenced to life in prison with each other.
Lol, agreed
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:48 PM
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I second this!

I eagerly await your thoughts on season 1 OTH, Jerry!
I'm interesting to hear them too.
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