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Old 02-26-2021, 08:56 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)
By Jerry



I agree. I have stated this before Jack was supposed to be Dawson's original obstacle for Joey. Pacey as originally written was never to be a rival for Joey There never should have been a scenario where two best friends fight over a girl, especially Joey who emotionally distant from anyone, but Dawson. If you look at the Joey, Jack relationship, jack was the dominate one in that relationship. If I remember correctly Joey was awfully eager to jump in the sack with Jack.
I would've been much more content with a Dawson/Joey/Jack triangle than a Dawson/Joey/Pacey triangle. The latter had managed to ruin all that were involved in the triangle along with other characters attached to their storyline as well as destroying a once great friendship between Dawson and Pacey. And obviously ruining the entire series overall.

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Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)
With a Dawson, Joey and Jack triangle, think of all the good story lines they could have had without destroying the fabric of the series. For example, Pacey's dilemma, his girlfriend's brother chasing after his best friend's girl.

As I have said several times, making Jack gay was a bad mistake and started the series downward slide.
Regarding the bolded, I think that would've been a great storyline for Pacey.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:18 AM
  #167
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I was the sucker that still would've accepted them being endgame and the writers knew there were plenty more like me and played on that.
I'm right with you. I wouldn't have cared if we received a last minute series finale ending for DJ. See, in our case it was the only proper ending based on Seasons 1/2. DJ (and PA) were established in the first two seasons. The foundation. So even if they messed with Seasons 4-6, there was enough substance in Seasons 1/2 indicating that DJ and PA were the ONLY pairings meant to reach the finish line. PJ, not even close. Their story represented how to run away from an extremely unhealthy relationship, two people who mixed together and formed a toxic fire.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:23 AM
  #168
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That is hilarious .

At least some of them admit that the show truly did a 180 and became something completely different. For me, usually I'd drop shows that do this because they had steered away from what made me fall in love with them but with this show I was too hopeful for DJ.


That's me as well. I was way too hopeful. Not sure how you can watch Season 1 alone and think DJ weren't ending up together. Also, the season finales of 4 and 5 gave strong clues they were going right back to DJ no matter what mess they created throughout those later seasons. There was every reason to believe it was ending DJ. We have had the ending in the script. It was a fluke, ridiculous switch in the end.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:24 AM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COOLCAT200 (View Post)
I am 100% convinced they cut the montage at the end of this video from the aired version of the finale because it shows who Joey was really running from. https://youtu.be/ue5tNvfVqdM
That's really interesting!
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:26 AM
  #170
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Hahahaha that is actually a totally realistic theory for that ending.
If Joey thought she was humiliated in small town Capeside on a boat at prom senior year, she hasn't seen anything since Pacey screaming like a lunatic in NYC telling her they were over in front of 303030303030 people would be way worse.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:40 AM
  #171
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That's what baffles me! He was the best in season 2! And I'm sure that season is what got him even more fans so why not keep up that type of writing for him? Why insist on writing his character as a massive screw up? Season 1 - I get it. It established the circumstances that he was surrounded by and it made you understand that his academia and poor choices (notably Tamara) were a product of a difficult upbringing and it kind of made you root for him to 'make it'. Season 2, we see his character progression where he starts to improve with school, gets a girlfriend that is so great to him and he becomes this mature person that helps his loved ones during difficult moments. So you get to see this great character progression. Mid season 3, this all comes tumbling down and everything thereafter he regresses to becoming this huge screw up again except it's more embarrassing in the later seasons because he is then an adult male. It's unfortunate and obviously they needed to write him in this way so it would look like Joey 'saved' him.
100%.

Quote:
THIS. I was trying to figure out a way to word it but you did it perfectly. It did kind of feel like the writers wanted to have Joey 'beat' Dawson at this so they got her to lose her virginity first and not only do it first but also with his best friend. Amazing writers .
I really think so. I think they felt if Dawson found an amazing relationship in Season 4 with someone else not attached to PJ, it would diminish Joey's Creek so they didn't dare go there. It was absolutely ridiculous. I also wonder if they had Dawson lose his virginity to Jen to show him moving backwards a bit too. He met and crushed on Jen way back in Season 1. So having him lose his virginity to Jen (even if she was a great person and worthy of being with) showed lack of character growth by going back to your high school immaturity moments in college. Also, notice Dawson and that actress. She was a superficial moron. They couldn't allow him to date a caring, intelligent actress in Season 6. She had to be very flawed and superficial. They simply refused to let Dawson date anyone with substance minus Jen and like I said, my theory of their revisit was to show Dawson moving back in time. But anyone else, they refused to let Dawson date someone decent. I thought this was because they always intended to put DJ back together. While I think that's part of it, I do wonder if they also went there so he didn't look better than Joey and her Creek.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:50 PM
  #172
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Something I think Dawson never gets enough credit for is giving Joey the money to go to school. Yes, it’s kinda ridiculous I guess not taking a student loan like most people, but I think it was still very nice of Dawson to do that and I get annoyed how some people say he only did it to get her away from Pacey. He did it because he wanted to see his best friend go to the school she wanted too.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:43 AM
  #173
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I'm right with you. I wouldn't have cared if we received a last minute series finale ending for DJ. See, in our case it was the only proper ending based on Seasons 1/2. DJ (and PA) were established in the first two seasons. The foundation. So even if they messed with Seasons 4-6, there was enough substance in Seasons 1/2 indicating that DJ and PA were the ONLY pairings meant to reach the finish line. PJ, not even close. Their story represented how to run away from an extremely unhealthy relationship, two people who mixed together and formed a toxic fire.
Agree with everything, especially to the bolded part. You have so accurately conveyed my exact feelings towards why I was still ok with DJ ending. I know their road was tough and there were many moments which I wish never happened but I still would've been able to get past them based on the foundation that was built in season 1-2. And we also got little moments here and there between seasons 4-6 that gave us hope. It's all quite sad when you think about it.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:58 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Auror (View Post)
If Joey thought she was humiliated in small town Capeside on a boat at prom senior year, she hasn't seen anything since Pacey screaming like a lunatic in NYC telling her they were over in front of 303030303030 people would be way worse.


Post finale, I could see him going down the possessive boyfriend route. I don't mean that in a way so as to berate him. I don't think he would intentionally become like this, I just think it would occur subconsciously because the poor guy's insecurities would be eating him up inside any time DJ interacted. And the fact that he knew he couldn't 'get' Joey like Dawson did always played on his mind because he knew Dawson would always have that over him.
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:31 AM
  #175
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100%.



I really think so. I think they felt if Dawson found an amazing relationship in Season 4 with someone else not attached to PJ, it would diminish Joey's Creek so they didn't dare go there. It was absolutely ridiculous. I also wonder if they had Dawson lose his virginity to Jen to show him moving backwards a bit too. He met and crushed on Jen way back in Season 1. So having him lose his virginity to Jen (even if she was a great person and worthy of being with) showed lack of character growth by going back to your high school immaturity moments in college. Also, notice Dawson and that actress. She was a superficial moron. They couldn't allow him to date a caring, intelligent actress in Season 6. She had to be very flawed and superficial. They simply refused to let Dawson date anyone with substance minus Jen and like I said, my theory of their revisit was to show Dawson moving back in time. But anyone else, they refused to let Dawson date someone decent. I thought this was because they always intended to put DJ back together. While I think that's part of it, I do wonder if they also went there so he didn't look better than Joey and her Creek.
That is so true, when I think of it in retrospect, they didn't give Dawson any legitimate second option after Joey. I think perhaps it could've been because they always intended DJ to end up together and I'd like to think it was but then I think if that was the case, why give Joey a legitimate second option in Pacey? Why not give Dawson the same? Whether they intended DJ to end up together or not they should've either given both a viable second option or don't give one for either of them. The fact that they did for Joey and not for Dawson really demonstrates the obvious favouritism of certain characters by the writers. Which goes back to the theory that it was gradually becoming Joey's Creek and her character had to be written to perfection whilst completely disregarding the progression of other characters.

I think they made him lose his virginity to Jen because there was no other 'appropriate' option left. Dawson was the main male protagonist (which can be arguable given how horribly they wrote him in the later seasons) and he always spoke about sex in such high regard so it wouldn't have made sense for him to lose it to a random. They hadn't written him a genuine non-Joey love interest and it was getting close to the end of the series (I think leaving it to mid season 5 was already late as it is) so they needed to make it happen sooner rather than later. Jen was someone he was close with and shared warm feelings towards so she was the next best logical option at that stage. I don't think Jen was a bad option for him, I just wish it happened before Joey lost hers. It just doesn't feel right that Joey lost it before him and to his best friend. Utter humiliation to Dawson's character.
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:44 PM
  #176
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Posted by Auror
Quote:
Joey spending an entire episode interacting and singing to her mugger as she mugged the camera herself was like fingernails on a chalkboard. You knew the show completely lost its way at this point.
That episode was so bad I stopped watching after ten minutes and never have seen the rest of it.
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:55 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)
That episode was so bad I stopped watching after ten minutes and never have seen the rest of it.
You were smart!

The only episode of Dawson's Creek that I never watched, and never will watch, was A Winter's Tale. I had and have no desire to see Joey lose her virginity to Pacey.
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:55 PM
  #178
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Really incredible. So did the writers expect us to think just because he received a tacked on ending with Joey, suddenly he wouldn’t be a screw up anymore? His life would be perfection? LOL. Is that why in S4, he walked around miserable, paranoid, with this super deep and depressing voice when he was with Joey? But in the series finale his life was complete and it would be pure happiness all because he was sitting on a couch with Joey while she talked to Dawson on the phone. Right on. In the next scene the audience did not see, Pacey was interrogating Joey on the timed amount she talked to Dawson, and then he left and walked the streets of NYC until she was asleep. That’s about how it went if you ask me.

That is exactly what would have happened.
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Old 03-01-2021, 02:10 PM
  #179
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Taken from youtube.


Quote:
Krista Gerry
4 months ago
While I agree with how they handled their breakup they were never meant to be permanent from the get go! They always intended to put Pacey/Joey together!
Season 2 Pacey/Joey were intentionally kept apart and given separate love interests because they saw the actors chemistry from the very beginning especially after the snail hunting episode and didn't want the fans to experience it too soon! They always intended on putting the characters together but they didn't want to do it too soon in the series and felt like they needed to develop the characters individually first! The plan was to put them together cause angst and drama for Dawson/Joey and Pacey and then reunite Dawson/Joey in the end as endgame soulmates however the Pacey/Joey pairing was a huge ratings success and took on a life of its own forever changing the trajectory of the show!
This explanation is pure fiction. It is also the common theme of P/J'ers that P/J was always the way the series was written. Basically we're to stupid to understand that. If the author of the post really knew Dawson's Creek, she would have understood that season one was written as a mini-series, and Dawson got the girl. The other season they thought was the last (Season four) Dawson got the girl.

It's amazing the fiction the P/J'ers come up with to justify P/J.
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:06 PM
  #180
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Is it just me or did you guys also get a vibe during Mitch and Gale’s wedding scene in the S3 finale that it was meant to mirror D/J’s future some day? Also during S4’s Late when Dawson is holding Lilly and Joey is next to him, felt like it was meant to show their future.
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Last edited by COOLCAT200; 03-01-2021 at 06:11 PM
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