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Old 03-30-2020, 12:59 PM
  #181
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Some thoughts

Ironically if TPTB hired anyone but Kevin Williamson to write the final episodes you would have had a Dawson/Joey, Pacey/Andie ending.

Joshua Jackson let it be known what he thought of the triangle by wearing a picture of Meredith Monroe over his heart at the 100th episode party. I wonder if he was yelled at later.

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It was the same with Pacey and Andie. Instead of introducing that cheating storyline and destroying Andie's character, they could have a healthy Andie come back in Season Three, and maybe have them break up because she didn't need Pacey to save her anymore, but with them too have them make their way back to each other.
I am going to, with respect, disagree with the above scenario. it would be very shallow of Andie to be healed and dump Pacey, because she feels better. In my opinion the ideal way to break them up would be conflict over Jack dating Joey, but of course Jack could not have been gay. A very big mistake. Started the series on its downward spiral.

With Jack being gay I would probably write this scenario; Upon Andie's release from from the hospital she would be more introspective and Pacey would assume that her new demeanor was her loss of interest in him. He would then pick a fight, say some hurtful things to her and she would break up with him. Which is what he wanted.

I enjoy reading the back and forth of the posts on this thread. A rare thing, intelligent discussion about Dawson's Creek. Not the typical, if you don't agree with me, either you're stupid or didn't watch the show.

And finally.......Why would anyone go on a cruise ship, especially in todays times.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:12 PM
  #182
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Michelle Williams clearly states it was James who helped her through her frustration of lack of screen time on Dawson's Creek:



I think what happened was James took his own advice he gave Michelle when he chose to already start parting ways with Dawson's Creek in the final season. He gave Michelle this advice so obviously he truly meant it. We know he hated season 3 with a passion when the triangle was introduced. He stated as much in so many words in interviews and there was speculation in general he really hated it. I think he started slowly checking out around season 4 but by the time that last season was in play, he took to heart his own advice he gave to Michelle and decided to give himself an opportunity before anyone else to start breaking the connection to Dawson's Creek for his future career. He probably literally wanted Joey to end up with Pacey so his character wouldn't be connected to that romantic ending which would have kept him firmly connected to the show as Dawson/Joey happily ever after. He didn't care that he was the lead and his advice to Michelle as Jen had nothing to do with honoring his lead character role of Dawson. He HAD to be directly involved with the ending but apparently he didn't care. He also didn't care about the fans who wanted the premise and those fated soulmates to end up together. Shame on you, James. Especially since it all backfired... you might have had a consistent career doing some guest spots on TV shows and movies that were anything but well known and elite. But you never made it big and had a career you might have pictured you could have.
You're so dead on about this Michelle. James Van Der Beek did a disservice to the show and to the fans of the show, and even now, he'll forever be known as Dawson and his career never took off, unlike Michelle Williams.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:01 PM
  #183
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You're so dead on about this Michelle. James Van Der Beek did a disservice to the show and to the fans of the show, and even now, he'll forever be known as Dawson and his career never took off, unlike Michelle Williams.
I don’t understand why he wouldn’t want to honor the character and fans. I think I read he never watched any episodes either. He embraced the initial fame Dawson’s Creek brought (I remember Courtney Love had a crush on James) and then disconnected due to the direction of the show and later, personal gain. Say what you want about Katie and Josh but they were dedicated to the show until the very end.
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Old 04-04-2020, 06:15 PM
  #184
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I don’t understand why he wouldn’t want to honor the character and fans. I think I read he never watched any episodes either. He embraced the initial fame Dawson’s Creek brought (I remember Courtney Love had a crush on James) and then disconnected due to the direction of the show and later, personal gain. Say what you want about Katie and Josh but they were dedicated to the show until the very end.
Very true.

I do think Michelle and James had reasons to check out . James because his character was made into a total tool.

Michelle, because she was pushed to the side and figured out TPTB wished she was gone.

The network exec's called her the chipmunk cheek c@@t. I'm sure she found out about it.

But I think if you're getting paid for the job; do it.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:35 PM
  #185
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But I think if you're getting paid for the job; do it.
That's how I feel as well. I also feel that the show would haveended differently if James Van Der Beek didn't ask for reduced screen time in Season Six.

I know that I've mentioned this before, but I saw an interview with James Van Der Beek years ago, where he said that at first, when people said "Oh you're Dawson," they said it in an excited way, implying that it was great that he had that role, but later, people would say "Oh, you're Dawson," in a derisive way, so his character, and by extension his career, was ruined by the bad writing on that show, and even now, people mostly think of him as Dawson, and it's been detrimental to his career. I saw James Van Der Beek on an episode of the show Criminal Minds where he played someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder and he was brilliant in it, and I thought he was hilarious in his role as the cynical director Adam Reese on One Tree Hill, but he'll always be known as Dawson, and unlike Michelle Williams, who has completely put Dawson's Creek behind her and is now an acclaimed actress, James Van Der Beek will never be able to put Dawson and Dawson's Creek behind him.
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:17 PM
  #186
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Very true.

I do think Michelle and James had reasons to check out . James because his character was made into a total tool.

Michelle, because she was pushed to the side and figured out TPTB wished she was gone.

The network exec's called her the chipmunk cheek c@@t. I'm sure she found out about it.

But I think if you're getting paid for the job; do it.
Precisely.

Those network execs calling her that are pigs. I wonder if they made fun of Katie’s distracting side smile. Oh wait, no because she was the IT girl.

I wonder if James ever talked to TPTB about his frustration.

I also wish Josh would have fought for Meredith and Pacey/Andie. We know about the pin but was Josh satisfied with TPTB cutting Meredith’s series finale scenes (and ultimately the PA potential reunion)? Not saying he personally could have helped with the ending but given Kevin basically hid in a corner allowing Stupin to get PJ maybe his influence would have helped.
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:02 PM
  #187
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Precisely.

Those network execs calling her that are pigs. I wonder if they made fun of Katie’s distracting side smile. Oh wait, no because she was the IT girl.

I wonder if James ever talked to TPTB about his frustration.

I also wish Josh would have fought for Meredith and Pacey/Andie. We know about the pin but was Josh satisfied with TPTB cutting Meredith’s series finale scenes (and ultimately the PA potential reunion)? Not saying he personally could have helped with the ending but given Kevin basically hid in a corner allowing Stupin to get PJ maybe his influence would have helped.
According to Sasha Alexander in a couple of interviews, she stated Josh was quite upset on Meredith Monroe's last day on set. She also stated in an interview about Joshua Jackson, the only time she ever saw him sad, was Meredith's last day on set.

I am sure the guy who was thrown out of a Carolina Hurricanes game in Raleigh for being drunk and yelling all the way out; I'm Canadian, I'm allowed to get drunk at a hockey game. I'm sure he said something.

The fact that he wore Meredith's picture over his heart, was his way of tweaking the network exec's noses, Remember this happened quite a bit after Meredith left.

A really wild random thought. Was KW pressured into killing Jen off because if there was a revival, or a movie, Michelle Williams would not be involved?

That problem seems to be holding up a revival or a movie, so I guess TPDB won.


Maybe they need to do a Dallas sequence....Where it is a dream.

Last edited by TL22; 04-05-2020 at 03:28 AM
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Old 04-05-2020, 07:26 AM
  #188
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According to Sasha Alexander in a couple of interviews, she stated Josh was quite upset on Meredith Monroe's last day on set. She also stated in an interview about Joshua Jackson, the only time she ever saw him sad, was Meredith's last day on set.

I am sure the guy who was thrown out of a Carolina Hurricanes game in Raleigh for being drunk and yelling all the way out; I'm Canadian, I'm allowed to get drunk at a hockey game. I'm sure he said something.

The fact that he wore Meredith's picture over his heart, was his way of tweaking the network exec's noses, Remember this happened quite a bit after Meredith left.
I remember hearing about Josh and the incident at the hockey game. I live in Minnesota where hockey is a way of life at every level. Men and women from around the world come here for the programs and speciality hockey high schools. Sidney Crosby was one of them.

Minnesota is nicknamed The State of Hockey for a reason.

So yes, I didn’t see the big deal either due to passion for the sport. LOL.

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A really wild random thought. Was KW pressured into killing Jen off because if there was a revival, or a movie, Michelle Williams would not be involved?

That problem seems to be holding up a revival or a movie, so I guess TPDB won.
Very good question. I’ve always wondered how the decision to kill off Jen came to be. It was a laughable decision which showcased their obsession with Katie Holmes as Joey. I think they had to finish off Jen so Jen didn’t get a happy ending because there was only room for Joey to shine. Notice they couldn’t even have Dawson and Jen end up together. They probably felt it would make Joey’s Creek seem less important knowing in the end, Dawson truly loved Jen. It would diminish Joey and they simply couldn’t have it. It seems Dawson only had two choices... Joey or married to his career, nothing else. I also think that’s why Pacey/Andie did not happen... they knew Josh had stans. He was the male fan favorite. Thus, IT girl needed to have her character end up with his character.

When you think about all of the repulsive politics that went on behind closed doors... it is so dirty.

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Maybe they need to do a Dallas sequence....Where it is a dream.
I have been saying this... I even tweeted it to Kevin a couple years ago. It would be the only way. Says it all when you need to erase from reality your entire series in order to return and be taken seriously.
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Old 04-06-2020, 08:33 PM
  #189
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Very good question. I’ve always wondered how the decision to kill off Jen came to be. It was a laughable decision which showcased their obsession with Katie Holmes as Joey. I think they had to finish off Jen so Jen didn’t get a happy ending because there was only room for Joey to shine. Notice they couldn’t even have Dawson and Jen end up together. They probably felt it would make Joey’s Creek seem less important knowing in the end, Dawson truly loved Jen. It would diminish Joey and they simply couldn’t have it. It seems Dawson only had two choices... Joey or married to his career, nothing else. I also think that’s why Pacey/Andie did not happen... they knew Josh had stans. He was the male fan favorite. Thus, IT girl needed to have her character end up with his character.
Good point about Jen. If one was to be technical, Jen was Dawson's first love. I have always thought the reason they broke up, Jen wasn't a virgin, was ridiculous. I know in my dating years my girlfriend being a virgin was a non issue. I never even thought about it and really did not care. It was more on how she conducted herself while she was with me. I know that sounds very controlling, but I did not mean it in a controlling sense. More or less how we got along.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:40 PM
  #190
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Good point about Jen. If one was to be technical, Jen was Dawson's first love. I have always thought the reason they broke up, Jen wasn't a virgin, was ridiculous. I know in my dating years my girlfriend being a virgin was a non issue. I never even thought about it and really did not care. It was more on how she conducted herself while she was with me. I know that sounds very controlling, but I did not mean it in a controlling sense. More or less how we got along.
Not at all, I totally understand what you mean. So true about the reason they broke up. It really was ridiculous. I always hated how the show inferred Jen was too wild and too sexual for Dawson. Of course we see Jen start messing around with Pacey too like she didn't deserve a decent relationship. Look at the rest of the bozos she dated. It was not a coincidence they paired her up with guys who would, in the end, make her look stupid and not worthy. They did the character of Jen so dirty and by extension, Michelle Williams, too. TPTB look like idiotic fools.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:36 AM
  #191
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Just saw this... listen to Hilarie ( I love her so much, talk about a decent, kind Soul, her personality just LIGHTS up with pure Energy and Love ) talk about how much she loves the entire cast, how she recently Face Timed Joy and Sophia, they are truly close friends. They all are. Sure, there's the ridiculous crap that Sophia and Chad went through making a terrible mistake (marriage) but outside of that disaster since they were both not thinking, the cast loves each other and are very close. It just reminds me of how not close Dawson's Creek is because of the petty crap that went on. The lead female (Katie) wasn't friends with any of her female costars whereas the lead on One Tree Hill (Hilarie) adores her female costars and they are all close in the present. What a difference.

Also... Hilarie's son is so cute... in 10 years he's going to have the ladies all over him. LOL

She mentioned a reboot for OTH... they would all be on board but the issue is Monster Creator... I love how honest she is about it... (The creator criminal was especially all over her too ) and the reboot for OTH is totally possible due to how the show ended... great ending ... but the issue is getting that pig criminal creator to sign over rights and that part of it. But as far as storylines and characters, it could happen tomorrow. Unlike Dawson's Creek...

Hilarie Burton Morgan on What It Would Take to Make a ‘One Tree Hill’ Reboot Happen
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:38 AM
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Like I said... noticing the difference in casts between OTH and DC ... night and day.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:54 AM
  #193
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Not at all, I totally understand what you mean. So true about the reason they broke up. It really was ridiculous. I always hated how the show inferred Jen was too wild and too sexual for Dawson. Of course we see Jen start messing around with Pacey too like she didn't deserve a decent relationship. Look at the rest of the bozos she dated. It was not a coincidence they paired her up with guys who would, in the end, make her look stupid and not worthy. They did the character of Jen so dirty and by extension, Michelle Williams, too. TPTB look like idiotic fools.
They retconned things later to imply that Gretchen was Dawson's first love, but actually Dawson and Jen breaking up the first time was due to Jen breaking up with him because she was afraid of being in a serious relationship, but Dawson had judged her harshly before that when it was revealed that she wasn't a virgin. Jen, and Michelle Williams really did get treated badly on the show, almost from the very beginning.
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There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:57 AM
  #194
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Like I said... noticing the difference in casts between OTH and DC ... night and day.
I think the only Dawson's Creek cast members that remained friends are Michelle Williams and Busy Phillipps.
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There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:33 AM
  #195
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They retconned things later to imply that Gretchen was Dawson's first love, but actually Dawson and Jen breaking up the first time was due to Jen breaking up with him because she was afraid of being in a serious relationship, but Dawson had judged her harshly before that when it was revealed that she wasn't a virgin. Jen, and Michelle Williams really did get treated badly on the show, almost from the very beginning.
It was so ridiculous. I didn’t mind Dawson and Gretchen but it was obvious they were only together to make Joey jealous and get under Pacey’s skin. Jen was Dawson’s first love. He might not have been totally IN LOVE with her way back in the early part of the series but he had strong feelings for Jen. When they were revisited in season 5, they should have been taken more seriously. They could have been set up as a potential endgame pairing. But of course it didn’t happen because it was Joey or married to career for Dawson and Jen was meant to be a character that was humiliated over and over again. Michelle got the last laugh.
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