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Old 05-11-2019, 09:43 PM
  #196
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Promicide was meant to be the end of Pacey and Joey forever. No couple comes back from the verbal lashing Pacey gave Joey.

Season four ended with Dawson and Joey kissing in Dawson's room. Pacey and Andie admitting what they did for each other.



As I have said many times end of the series.

I, for the most part I did not like season four.The constant Pacey / Joey bickering and the further destruction of Andie; over dosing.

What most P/J'ERS forget is that Pacey sent Joey home so he could remain with Andie in the hospital. True love?

The only episodes I really like season four are Promicide and The Graduation. Pacey sheds Joey and truly forgives Andie and realizes how much she meant to him.

After season four I can not understand how any one would be a P/J'er. If Pacey had any respect for Joey; Promicide never would have happened.

It's so obvious that Pacey slowly started to despise Joey.

Last edited by TL22; 05-12-2019 at 01:29 AM
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:40 AM
  #197
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Josh put in such extra anger during Pacey's prom rant. It absolutely felt like Pacey despised Joey. How could he not? He lost himself throughout all of season 4. He despised himself and Joey given what happened. PJers called Season 5 for PJ "Amnesia" and I always laugh at this. No, it was not amnesia, folks. TPTB were saying PJ were so unhealthy and insignificant in season 4, it made sense they were not acknowledging what happened between them in season 5! James wanting more screen time in season 6 temporarily altered things but even during those horrible moments, the theme was still in place. PJ were not meant to be.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:06 PM
  #198
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To me, TBTB pandered to both sides of the triangle they created to keep them tuning in, and in the end, no one was happy, except for the PJers who could, and did, crow that they "won."
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:49 PM
  #199
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I remember some interviews from TPTB. They were giggling like children when talking about the triangle. They loved the ship wars and drama. They preferred this over higher quality back in seasons 1/2.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:37 PM
  #200
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TPTB, briefly came to their senses end of season 4 with the end of P/J forever in a rational world.

Then again in season six when after a so called wonderful time in a K-Mart; Joey dumped Pacey in favour of Eddie. I believe she told Pacey "I just don't feel it" Then jumps into Eddies bed.

P/J finished for all time once again.

KW should have watched those two episodes then grew a pair of balls to stand up to Stupin and the network and ended the series the way it was supposed to end.

I still can't understand how a P/J'er after watching those two episodes have the misguided sense that P/J had a wonderful blissful romance.

Last edited by TL22; 05-15-2019 at 09:53 PM
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:57 AM
  #201
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Such a great point about these two particular episodes.

Proof that Kevin never stayed in touch with the show (or watched a single episode after season 2).

The series finale makes no sense... but of course it wouldn't because because PJ pathetically inherited all of DJs lines.

PJ fans like to believe Joey was still running from Pacey in season 6 so that’s why she picked Eddie, lol. Even though way back in season 4 Coda Joey immediately wanted to be back together with Dawson, wanted him the rest of the way, and preferred Eddie as a consolation prize even over Pacey while she waited to be with Dawson again.

I don’t even know how PJ fans can embrace any episodes. Joey was either lying to Pacey, preferring someone else, or emotionally cheating on him. Pacey was only truly happy with Andie. At the end of season 4 who did he want to share his graduation news with? Not Joey. All Andie, only Andie.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:38 AM
  #202
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I know on the IMDB boards there was a big shift from P/J to P/A. A good number of the converted were P/J who watched the series as young teens and upon re-watching as adults saw how absurd P/J was.

It's a shame all that IMDB boards were totally wiped out.

The most vicious attack I received there was from a P/J'er who accused me of taking another identity and viciously attacking her in PM's

Ironically it was another P/J'er came to my defense. We also had a hotly contested batltle on another forum besides the Dawson Creek one. She posted do not believe what XXXX posted. I have been fighting with TL22 [Not my name on that forum] for a couple of years and it is not his style to assume an identity and attack anyone in a PM.

I thanked her and told her I'd be a P/J'er for a day; which got a good. laugh.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:07 AM
  #203
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LOL!

That's what bothered me the most about the PJ fanbase. I have never witnessed such a vicious fanbase. Ever. They cut you deep when they wanted to. Not all, of course. I just mean we all have stories about how mean they could be. The attacks were awful. Jerry mentioned what happened to him, I have stories as well. They were making fun of the fact that I'm a Clinical Psychologist, for example. But like you, I have encountered a few that are very nice and reasonable. The bad ones collectively were vicious though. Crossing way over the line. I've seen some bad shipper fanbases, past and present... PJ fanbase is the worst I've ever experienced by far. I do believe some of it has to do with the fact that they cannot pull from source material. They cannot properly debate because the material is too strong for DJ, PA, and against PJ. They cannot win true debates. So they have to go very dirty and mean in order to distract and move around the source material.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:50 AM
  #204
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Yes, I have quite a few horror stories about what some of the P/Jers here did to me personally when I moderated the Dawson's Creek board here. They spread malicious lies about me and they tried to get me removed as a moderator here and get me kicked off this website entirely. They were vicious and cruel people and I'm glad that they're all gone now.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:32 PM
  #205
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I found something that I wrote in 2001 that "explained" all the awful stuff that happened in Season Three of Dawson's Creek:

Quote:
I think a lot of people can agree that Season Three of Dawson’s Creek seemed very disjointed, and a lot of us wondered where the writers got the preposterous story lines that veered further and further away from any remote resemblance to reality. Since what happened in Season Three had a lasting effect on what we’re now watching in Season Four, I’m bringing back an old topic I posted at the end of Season Three, which took a satirical look at why Season Three turned out the way that it did.

Last year, a lot of us, and especially myself, had complained about the writers on Dawson's Creek, and had pointed out major discrepancies in issues concerning continuity, character history, and plot developments. A lot of this had been attributed to the turnover of the original writing staff, the departure of Kevin Williamson, the fact that the producers seemed to base the inclusion or exclusion of a character or story line on Internet Fan Polls, and the lack of anyone in charge with a clear vision of the direction that the show, and the characters on it, should take. After a thorough investigation at the time by my friend Frances P.I., AKA "Mama" Behr, however, we discovered a shocking secret that explained why our favorite show had gotten "off track," instead of being "back on track," Wilmington Weed. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, and boys and girls, Wilmington Weed, that insidious, and ultra powerful brand of marijuana that numbed the minds of the creative "geniuses" that were responsible for presenting us with the episodes of Dawson's Creek that we all watch, and, as a result of the deleterious effect of this highly illegal substance, these writers gave us some of the most ridiculous story lines that had ever been presented in the history of Dawson's Creek.

Frances, P.I., with her vast resources of the latest electronic surveillance equipment, was able to "sit in" on a few of these smoke filled meetings, otherwise known as the "Reefer Madness" sessions, and she was able to record the conversations of these writers as they determined the direction that the show was going to take in Season Three. There were three key marathon bong hit parties, err, um, I mean strategy meetings, that determined the outcome of the season, and Frances graciously provided me transcripts of these sessions that I'm now happy to share with you:

Date: July 1999: Location: A "Den of Iniquity" hidden somewhere deep in
Wilmington, North Carolina.

Writer Number One: Whoa, dude, don't bogart that joint! We have to have Dawson get a new girlfriend, since Joey shafted him so much at the end of last season. Did anyone watch last season? If I did, I forgot about it, so let's start with a fresh slate! Whoa, pass those nachos! I've got the munchies really bad!

Writer Number Two: Hey dude, why don't we have her work in a strip joint! And then we have her "service" that dude Dawson on his dad's boat, and he'll crash the boat, and host a stripper party to pay to fix it, like they did in "Risky Business!" Wow! Aren't we creative geniuses? Pass the bong, dude!

Writer Number Three: Whoa, awesome! Why don't we also have her end up being that character Jen's sister, wouldn't that be totally rad? Cough, cough, cough, man, I took too big a hit that time!

Date: December 1999: Location: The same "Den Of Iniquity"

Writer Number One: Well dudes, our Eve storyline went over like a lead balloon, according to the Internet polls, so we'd better take some hits off that bong and come up with something new to show what geniuses we are before they can our weed smoking butts! I've got it, let's hook up Pacey and Jen, and let's have them make a "sex only" pact with each other! After all, they both like sex, oh wait, isn't Jen a virgin, oh no, that's Joey right? This is all so confusing! Anyway, I'll bet the fans will love having a couple get together that never had any interest in one another, but then, let's have them not do the "nasty," because they "have no chemistry." God, I'm a genius! Dude, I told you not to bogart that joint!

Writer Number Two: Cool dude, and I have a better idea! Let's hook Joey up with a graduate student who's only 19, and who's a total jerk, and let's have him humiliate her in front of an entire class, but let's have Joey fall for him anyway! That's "in character" for her, right? Let's have him ask her what her interests are, and let's have her say that she has no interests other than "some boy," even though last year, she supposedly had a burning passion for art! It was art she was interested in, or was it Jack? Whatever! The viewers won't care anyway!

Writer Number Three: Whoa, awesome! Hey, that principal dude is pretty cool. Why don't we have his daughter suddenly appear, and she can be competition for that dude Dawson? Dawson's his name, right? Let's have them become friends, and start to make a film together, and then let's have Dawson drop out right in the middle of it! Cough, cough, cough! Man, this is some powerful stuff!

Date: March 2000 Location: The same "Den Of Iniquity."

Writer Number One: Well dudes, are butts are on the line, and if we don't think of something quick, we'll be out of a job, and we'll never be able to get our hands on this great weed again! Most real companies have "random drug screening!" I can't handle that! They want us to come up with something original and innovative. I've got it: LOVE TRIANGLE!

Writer Number Two: Awesome dude, but didn't they do that in Season One? There WAS a Season One, right?

Writer Number Three: Whatever. That's what they're paying us for, and supplying us endless amounts of Wilmington Weed for. Let's see, who can we hook up? I've got it, Pacey and Jen! Oh wait, we already did that right? How about Pacey and Joey then?

Writer Number One: Don't Pacey and Joey hate each other though? And isn't Joey in love with that dude Dawson? Or does she love Jack? Oh wait, he's gay, isn't he? Man, I've got to stop smoking so much of this weed! How about Joey and that Leo DiCaprio dude, the one who can't act? Oh that's right, he's with Jen. Jen, right? Oh whatever, pass the bong!

Writer Number Two: No, I'd say go with the Pacey, Joey and Dawson angle. Dawson's still on the show, right? I've hardly seen him around lately. Pacey, now was he Dawson's best friend? I forget! That'll create some real drama, won't it? I think the fans will dig it, and besides, they don't really care about who hooks up with who anyway! Pass those nachos! Man, we are creative geniuses! Don't bogart that joint!

This, my friends, is a sad example of what marijuana can do to the minds of talented people. I would have you take heed of this lesson, and don't travel down the path to ruin! I'd like to thank Frances P.I. for her thorough report, and I hope that our investigation will serve as a lesson to you all!

Just say no!
"Frances P.I." was a friend of mine who posted here with the posting name of Frances and she was a dedicated Dawson and Joey Fan who started the first, and still running, Dawson's Creek Shipper Thread on the Dawson's Creek board here, and we came up with this satirical "explanation" for how the show went off the rails in Season Three after Kevin Williamson left. I can't believe that 18 years have passed since I wrote this!
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy

There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:35 AM
  #206
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^^^ What a wonderful write-up. I love it. I would love to watch Kevin Williamson reading this.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:55 AM
  #207
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Thanks!

I had forgotten about some of the inane stories that we saw in Season Three, but re-reading what I wrote then brought it all back!
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy

There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:22 AM
  #208
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It really did!

Season 3 Dawson’s Creek makes most OTH seasons appear Emmy Award Winning.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:58 AM
  #209
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Funny, but I wonder how from the truth the story actually was. LOL
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:04 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)
Funny, but I wonder how from the truth the story actually was. LOL
LOL! You really have to wonder!
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The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it - and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. - John F. Kennedy

There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why - I dream of things that never were and ask why not. - Robert F. Kennedy
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