jediwands

I just think Mark was determined to give them severe drama in season 5 because he wasn't ready to reunite them for good. He wanted that break up, he wanted those missing years to be filled with journeys on their own, but of course Lucas found Lindsey to hide out with. He also wanted to cleverly tell the Lucas/Peyton story in a different way via Luke's books. The book thing and how Lucas wrote a love story about his neverending romantic feelings for Peyton (that literally was all he wanted to write about) was actually very unique, I have to say. This is something Mark had to think through and plan so he did have Lucas/Peyton on his mind. He had an exact reunion date for them (season 5 finale) but I think in his mind in order to pull it off, he had to have Lucas go off the deep end and Peyton get mistreated until they finally were on the same page together. Then he'd get his book payoff and the ultimate Leyton reunion.

Honestly, I know it would have been stupid seeing Peyton in LA while everyone was in Tree Hill but that shows how much I loathed seeing her return to Tree Hill only to get punched in the gut by Haley, weird behavior by the devious crazy Lindsey who was like a wolf in sheep's clothing, even Lucas being an a$$ to her all because she was blamed for his little boy denial for months and months. Lucas had everyone in his corner and Peyton had no one besides Brooke a little bit. Peyton was basically alone anyway. I rather have seen her surrounded by people who would treat her properly while Lucas threw his two year old fit and got it out of his system. That is unacceptable to me and so infuriating.

So sloppy and lame the triangle that was never a real triangle won out, lol. Mark wrote a clever premise, unique dynamics and characters and yet the focus was on a lame triangle that never really was a triangle.

Mark didn't want Hilarie to return? Why? I only heard that there was an attempt made to get Hilarie back (more than once) but she was busy with family and White Collar. I also heard that Mark wanted both Chad and Hilarie for the series finale only, not just one. Whether that's true or not, thankfully it worked out in the manner that it did.

stlavin95

They definitely hated the fact that Mark favoured Leyton and I laugh when they act like that the show got worse because of his feelings on couples made the show worse. Sophia would have sucked it up imo if Brucas were meant to be together, but they weren't at all.

stlavin95

I don't think Mark planned out the S5 storyline for LP since I doubt he originally planned for LP to get back together over an phone call lol. Don't get the logic in why Luke got written the way in S5 and I think he should have gotten about it differently or not done that storyline at all. I didn't like seeing that either, but avoiding it still wouldn't worth Peyton staying in LA for the first half of that season since that would have just been an waste of time imo. I would have preferred Luke not acting that way at all lol

I think that's what annoys me the most, Mark ruined some potential of the show by focusing on love triangles and third party storylines instead of focusing on way more interesting dynamics. Nope. Hilarie herself admitted she never got asked back to the show and if Mark wanted both parties to be in the series finale, LP would have appeared imo.

jediwands

No doubt about it she would have. The very fact that Sophia Bush basically shipped Lucas/Peyton throughout the series is what Brooke/Lucas fans should have taken note of. I mean, it's not like she started talking about liking Lucas/Peyton after the break up with Chad. She liked Lucas/Peyton well before they were married, probably even before they got together. She's always made it known she liked Lucas/Peyton which makes sense because Sophia has a brain and understands the Lucas/Peyton story. Seriously if I shipped a pairing and one actor within that ship was telling the shippers in so many words not to go there, there's another pairing that is the OTP and he/she even supports the OTP... I would give up and find some other aspect of the show to like and if not, drop the show because I would have to accept what was going on. That's basically what I did with Arrow. The second it became obvious what they were doing with the character of Felicity and Oliver/Felicity (not to mention completely abandoning the comics as a whole) there was no way on earth I was sticking around. It was not something I would enjoy and I didn't want to waste my time.

jediwands

Yes, that weird phone call at the end was the cliffhanger but I believe he generally mapped out that Leyton were reuniting during this time period based on the episodes leading up to the finale... Comet, kiss, Lindsey figuring it out Lucas still loved Peyton, So you saw the signs that a reunion was inevitable. But I think you're right that he probably didn't plan the phone call in advance, but I think he knew season 6 was going to be good for Lucas/Peyton fans.

Wow. Incredible. So why didn't he want Chad? Is that because of Hilarie not returning? Hilarie said she never got called back to the show even in seasons 7/8 too? See I heard she was asked to come back for Brooke's wedding and Hilarie declined and it pissed off Mark massively. That was the big rumor going around at the time. The Brucas fans of course jumped on Hilarie for "Peyton abandoning Brooke" on her wedding day and they went to town criticizing as a result. Of course they conveniently leave out what Brooke pulled in seasons 1-4. Peyton should have dumped Brooke multiple times in the past. But yes, only Brucas fans could blame Hilarie for Peyton not being there on Brooke's wedding day, lol.

Jerry D

Focusing primarily on love triangles ruins shows like these and it divides the fanbase, but it also garners ratings and makes forums like these a living hell, but it also makes them very popular. The One Tree Hill Forum in its prime was the most successful forum that we ever had here, but it was also the most difficult forum to moderate here, because the fighting between the Brooke and Lucas fans and the Lucas and Peyton fans was unbelievable. As bad as the Dawson's Creek board was in its heyday (and I should know) the One Tree Hill Board was far worse, and one moderator had her personal accounts hacked by some Brooke and Lucas fans. My late friend Tammy, who moderated the One Tree Hill board for years, finally gave up and resigned due to all of the fighting, and at one point all four moderators of the board resigned at once because they were tired of all the fighting and nastiness on the board particularly from the Brooke and Lucas fans, but some of the Lucas and Peyton fans could be pretty nasty too.

So my point is that these show runners create these love triangles to increase the ratings and fire up the fans, but it's a cheap ploy that takes away from the fans' enjoyment of the show.

jediwands

I can't even conjure up any sane reasoning to hack an account... I question the sanity of these people. It's just beyond what I can comprehend. Yes, I remember how crazy the board was. Leigh is even noticing very early threads and how people created them to cause trouble. She was noticing this with the Brooke/Lucas fans especially. They would set up a thread in order to isolate and rip into any Lucas/Peyton fan that would respond in a way that wasn't in line with their thoughts. I couldn't believe my eyes. I just assumed the board was crazy with traffic and some fighting but never realized the devious extent of issues that went on. I praise all those moderators who gave it a try. I wouldn't have lasted a month as a mod drowning in that chaos.

The sad thing about the OTH triangle is it should have concluded in season 1. It wasn't even a real triangle then because it was obvious Lucas didn't like Brooke and he had fallen for Peyton. The only reason the revisit took place was due to a greedy network that wanted to take advantage of the Chad/Sophia off screen chemistry. I personally never saw the on screen chemistry as a result of the off screen chemistry but there you go. So the network wanted the revisit and Mark gave the network just that. It all ended up as it was originally meant to be but that second revisit of Brooke/Lucas was unnecessary, came out of left field because it didn't follow what was being presented on the screen, and a complete waste of time only to fuel the fighting within the fandom. If that second revisit wouldn't have happened, everyone would have been so much better off.

ds44

Account hacking goes back to the Dawson Creek/Felicity days. People do insane things. I had my email which is just for fandom hacked by gossip girl fandom. It's never pleasant. They actually deleted a lot of my fanvids and fanfics but I had them all on my hard drive and was able to reupload most of them under a new name and new email. But, its scary the lengths people will go to. I don't mind love triangles when they are short lived and make sense, but they should not be your primary source of conflict.

From what I understood, Hilarie chose not to renew her contract and didn't come back cause she was never asked too. Mark had some cray cray storylines planned for Peyton had Hilarie stayed. She left for the integrity of her character because he was planning on killing of lucas while Peyton was still pregnant.

Jerry D

I'm so sorry that happened to you Shu. I had some pretty horrible things done to me by some Pacey and Joey fans, including my-co-moderator, when I moderated the Dawson's Creek board so I can relate.

Wow, that's awful. It would have been horrible if things worked out like that. I've heard that Mark could be vindictive.

jediwands

I am so sorry this happened to you. I will never understand how people can go this far. I guess I'm naive.

Wow. That video Hilarie made then makes SO much sense based on what you just said. Why would Mark have gone there? He's not any better than Kevin Williamson abandoning his show because if Mark would have gone there with Lucas and then destroyed Lucas/Peyton while taking apart Peyton's great qualities, he might not have physically left his show but he would have stuck around to put a fire to it which is actually worse than walking away.

If you think about it... Hilarie basically saved the show then by walking away. Lucas and Peyton as individual characters were preserved and the shows OTP got the happy ending. I don't even count seasons 7-9 as true OTH since they were post Lucas/Peyton. But we got our happy ending in the finale of 6 and now it seems like Hilarie alone made it happen. Good for her. I've always loved Hilarie based on what little I know about her... finding this out just doesn't surprise me because she's a class act both on and off the screen. She reminds me of Emily VanCamp. Both are gems.

ds44

She is the reason I tuned into the show when i came across it on a video store shelf because I remember her time as a vj on mtv. Speaking of Hilarie, she is expecting her second child.

Thanks, but I just try to be careful who I communicate with via email these days. Fandoms are an ugly place as well as a joy. I guess you take the good with the bad.

jediwands

Me too, Shu. I adored Hilarie on MTV. I tuned in all the time just for Hilarie and her personality. When I found out about One Tree Hill and that she would be the main female character I was intrigued. Hilarie and the basketball theme are the two reasons why I tuned in. It's not a coincidence Peyton was my favorite character on One Tree Hill and it wasn't even close. Awe that's great to hear she's having a second child.

No doubt about it. Sometimes I miss the days when you could watch shows without fandoms involved. Like you said, it can be a fun experience. But when it gets bad, it can be a nightmare.

jediwands

I was just talking with Leigh about season 5, Peyton and Lindsey and their interaction...

She said something very interesting...

She mentioned how you cannot judge Peyton in season 5 because you're missing all the context...

This is about remembering Peyton's history... you cannot take issue with Peyton using that when not only did she watch Ellie die when she was much younger, but she also witnessed Anna dying at a very young age too... again it's about history and what Peyton has been through.

Also, Peyton bringing up Lindsey's father isn't even a big deal because she had no idea he was dead. Anyone coming down on Peyton for that line already disliked Peyton so twisting it to make it worse or simply didn't remember or understand the history. Not to mention it being a total set up too.

Lastly and most importantly... Lindsey using the shooting was disgusting because she DID know that Peyton had been shot in that school and nearly died from blood loss in that room. Michaela said the character of Lindsey was a crazy, devious witch and that says it all if the actress states as much... what Lindsey said to Peyton about the shooting was devious because she knowingly knew Peyton was shot, almost died in that very room and didn't give a rip. I never for one second bought that Lindsey was a decent character. She never was.

stlavin95

Brooke and Lucas fans just don't really care about things that don't match to their particular viewpoint tbh, so of course they would ignore the fact that Sophia never liked Brucas to begin with.

stlavin95

Honestly, if Mark did plan out S5 Leyton that just makes me even more disappointed in his writing tbh. The signs were there, but the Lindsay storyline was just way too dragged out for my liking and it got to an point where she was only staying around imo because he adored Michaela. He might have know that, but it doesn't justify season 5 for me.

Yeah, I think it was because Hilarie didn't come back and it wouldn't have really worked with Luke being there without Peyton. But even if he did invite them both back for it. I doubt he would have had them back for the finale because his ego wouldn't allow for him to admit the show was worse without LP. Mark said he invited her back, but Hilarie and Joy have said he was lying.