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Old 09-13-2017, 11:34 PM
  #16
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She read his books and understood what Peyton Sawyer meant to Lucas. She also saw it with her own two eyes in season 5 there was still something between them. She knew and like the actress said, she was not to be depicted in a positive light.
The proposal situation will never make any sense to me and it was clearly only done for the drama imo.

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: I wonder if this is due to the actor. Maybe shortly before this they wanted him longer term and it couldn't be worked out. Thus, the rewriting?
Maybe that had something to do with it, since Mark did like Bryan and would have loved it if he had wanted to become an main character.

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: It was an annoying, confusing, nauseating turn of events. I remember my eyes as big as silver dollars when I realized they were actually revisiting Brucas. I couldn't even believe it. It made ZERO sense and was so lame. The story didn't remotely dictate this Brucas revisit. So stupid. As a Leyton fan, I would have been okay with Lucas/Peyton spending more time apart. They were already established in season 1. I could wait for the pay off. But to throw this ridiculous curve ball and have Luke insanely think he had romantic feelings for Brooke after everything in season 1... Brooke, not a great person, Brooke throwing Peyton back at an ex that treated her like crap so she could nail Luke (literally), Brooke allowing Lucas to get a tattoo/getting drunk/wild, basically seducing him so he'd fall for her... none of that worked in the end because he had fallen for Peyton... then Brooke being the demon child that she typically was during this time period had the audacity to fake a freaken pregnancy. Oh but yes, Luke falls for her sincerely 6-12 months later. Right on. It made no sense and burns me up just thinking about it.
I completely agree. The Brucas revisit is the annoying part because from a storyline standpoint, it was insulting the audience with that crap. It made no sense.
Brucas S2 annoys me more than anything since they clearly only went back there for offscreen reasons. What makes it even worse for me that is canon that Luke didn't have feelings for Brooke in S1 (he even admits it in S3) and yet 2.10 was trying to sell that he was still in love with her. I would have been somewhat on board with this storyline had the writers actually tried to show us what had changed when it came to Luke's poi on Brooke, but instead they just rewrote history instead. I think that's why Brooke sudden had an personality in S2, since the writers knew that she needed to develop before Luke could see her more than meaningless fling and as harsh as may sound, S1 Brooke was never going to keep his interest long term outside of the bedroom regardless of his feelings for Peyton. I wouldn't even say it was 6-12 months haha, since it was more like 1-2 months.

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They tried way too hard! It was so annoying. It was weird because while they tried to go there... they gave this sob story about Clay's ex and how he lost her as an attempt to get you immediately... all it did for me was wish it was Clay who died, not the ex. But in the process, they showed Clay as this big screw up too... he was the worlds worst sport agent ever and almost severely messed with Naley/their money/Nate's career. They had Nathan basically act like at times he cared more about Clay over Luke, it was really weird. They were forcing this new "brother" dynamic. I wasn't buying it. I agree about Taylor for Quinn. I hated what they did to Taylor all to pimp Quinn. Loved Alex. Love the actress. She had spunk. She was certainly rough around the edges (initially) but she was at least intriguing. Agreed about Julian too.
Didn't people love Clay more with his dead wife than Quinn? And they brought back the same actress as an psycho to try and change that. I remember reading a lot of LN fans complained about S8 Nathan/Clay and how they implied that the latter was the reason why Nathan was in the NBA when he wasn't even around when he got in. They were also pissed that Nathan told Clay he loved him, when he never said that to Lucas in the first 6 seasons at all. Taylor was more interesting to me and the actor was better too imo. I've seen Jana on other shows, so I'm not surprised she did an great job with Alex on here. I honestly never really got why they changed Julian's character tbh, since I felt it didn't make much sense to get rid of his feisty at all.


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LOL I forgot about Felix. Couldn't stand him. "All the psychos" haha, so true. Chase was basically around to look like a pretty guy, he served zero purpose, you are right. I could have been on board with Chase and Brooke if constructed differently (or if I actually cared about Brooke then lol) but it was just stupid from the start.
I think everyone hated Felix haha, but I do kinda feel bad for him considering his character got screwed over by the writers going back to BL in S2. My main issue with Chase is that I felt Mark only kept him around after S4 because he liked the actor and I felt the same way with Mia after S5 too.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:35 AM
  #17
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I should have just waited for you to respond since I babbled then got carried away with Ephram/Amy scenes too..
Your explanation was much better than mine! I was being succinct for once in my life!
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:41 AM
  #18
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Thanks for that, sounds interesting. Mark should have done something along those lines in season 2 and 3 instead of the BL/JP storylines.
LOL I don't know if you know this but Jerry was just being super funny and clever when he said Tommy became a vampire. He cleverly said this because the actor who played Tommy was Paul Wesley who later had roles on The OC (very small one) and then The Vampire Diaries. No vampires in Everwood.

Yes, Berlanti handled Ephram/Amy to ultimate perfection. I have never seen a showrunner respect his main pairing so much. He was a part of Dawson's Creek and I think he learned his lessons watching that show go down the tubes and told himself on his on show, Everwood, he was never disrespecting his main pairing. As a result, Ephram/Amy fans benefited from his love, caring, loyalty.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:43 AM
  #19
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Your explanation was much better than mine! I was being succinct for once in my life!
It worked, nevertheless.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:40 AM
  #20
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The proposal situation will never make any sense to me and it was clearly only done for the drama imo.
Exactly. I would have felt sorry for Lindsey if she wasn't flaunting too.

Were you shocked that Haley never questioned Luke on any of this? I just find it weird that Haley of all people acted like Lucas and Lindsey were meant to be! She even came down on Leyton for the kiss (which we've discussed was a bit rich considering her past even as a married woman) but you'd have to think Haley understood Lucas was still deeply in love with Peyton. This to me also pokes down the idea of Haley/Lindsey being close friends too. If they were, Haley would have warned her about the situation instead of being so passive.

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Maybe that had something to do with it, since Mark did like Bryan and would have loved it if he had wanted to become an main character.
It's definitely possible drastic storyline changes took place as a result of Bryan's availability and of course... the Chad/Sophia marriage that lasted about two seconds but still, TPTB wanted to cash on on it even if the storyline never made sense. Still though, I love how Sophia was a Leyton fan from the start and it never wavered. She understood it was Lucas/Peyton from the beginning and she loved this fact. This was before the marriage, during the marriage, after the marriage and I think it speaks volumes. She knew Lucas/Peyton were the Ephram/Amy of One Tree Hill.

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Brucas S2 annoys me more than anything since they clearly only went back there for offscreen reasons. What makes it even worse for me that is canon that Luke didn't have feelings for Brooke in S1 (he even admits it in S3) and yet 2.10 was trying to sell that he was still in love with her.
Amen.

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I would have been somewhat on board with this storyline had the writers actually tried to show us what had changed when it came to Luke's poi on Brooke, but instead they just rewrote history instead. I think that's why Brooke sudden had an personality in S2, since the writers knew that she needed to develop before Luke could see her more than meaningless fling and as harsh as may sound, S1 Brooke was never going to keep his interest long term outside of the bedroom regardless of his feelings for Peyton. I wouldn't even say it was 6-12 months haha, since it was more like 1-2 months.
Which makes it even worse! Exactly, I was just going by seasons with that estimation but you're right, it was only a couple of months which makes it even more pathetic and insulting. Not only was Brucas a complete 180, but like you said, they didn't explain HOW the 180 came to be. We didn't see how Lucas stopped loving Peyton, we didn't see how out of the blue, Lucas started to fall for Brooke. It's laughable. Brooke/Lucas was all about a physical relationship. They reminded me of Ephram/Madison actually... zero emotional connection but hot in the bedroom. That's all Brooke/Lucas were to each other. Lucas had anything emotional/serious come up, he was ditching Brooke and finding Peyton, his mom, or Haley.

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Didn't people love Clay more with his dead wife than Quinn? And they brought back the same actress as an psycho to try and change that.
Exactly. How insanely ridiculous was this storyline? They tried SO hard to get people to like Clay/Quinn and Clay in general, they went to extreme lengths but it never worked. Even I would have liked Clay/his deceased wife more too... it was a sweet story but it was ruined when they showed Clay/Quinn while doing the flashbacks. Then they brought in the same actress to poke at Clay/his deceased wife which is incredible. Then they had Clay suffer from mental illness too later on... hey, I am a psychologist, it's what I do for a living and even I didn't care about his supposed amnesia, psychological issues.

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I remember reading a lot of LN fans complained about S8 Nathan/Clay and how they implied that the latter was the reason why Nathan was in the NBA when he wasn't even around when he got in. They were also pissed that Nathan told Clay he loved him, when he never said that to Lucas in the first 6 seasons at all.
It was so gross. They also had Nathan wanting to donate an organ for Clay after an accident and the insinuation was he was choosing Clay over worrying about Haley/children too. It was so weird.

It would be one thing if they brought in Clay/Quinn for Haley's benefit... to have a sister around but that's not why Mark went there. He brought in Clay/Quinn in an attempt to take over Leyton's spot, replace Nathan/Luke with Nathan/Clay, using Haley's sister for a "somewhat family" angle for Nate/Clay like Nate/Luke. It was transparent and disgusting.

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Taylor was more interesting to me and the actor was better too imo. I've seen Jana on other shows, so I'm not surprised she did an great job with Alex on here. I honestly never really got why they changed Julian's character tbh, since I felt it didn't make much sense to get rid of his feisty at all.
Taylor was much more interesting, indeed. Love Jana and liked how they let her sing on the show. She has such a great voice! It was such a refreshing aspect of an otherwise torturous last few seasons. The Julian change was WTF.

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I think everyone hated Felix haha, but I do kinda feel bad for him considering his character got screwed over by the writers going back to BL in S2. My main issue with Chase is that I felt Mark only kept him around after S4 because he liked the actor and I felt the same way with Mia after S5 too.
It was so obvious they were using Felix... especially showing him as initially homophobic too. He was meant to be a villain of sorts. They tried to put Chase and Alex together but I always thought Alex was way too good for Chase. Glad Alex chose music/herself in the end!

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Old 09-14-2017, 10:02 AM
  #21
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LOL I don't know if you know this but Jerry was just being super funny and clever when he said Tommy became a vampire. He cleverly said this because the actor who played Tommy was Paul Wesley who later had roles on The OC (very small one) and then The Vampire Diaries. No vampires in Everwood.

Yes, Berlanti handled Ephram/Amy to ultimate perfection. I have never seen a showrunner respect his main pairing so much. He was a part of Dawson's Creek and I think he learned his lessons watching that show go down the tubes and told himself on his on show, Everwood, he was never disrespecting his main pairing. As a result, Ephram/Amy fans benefited from his love, caring, loyalty.
I figured it had something to do with vampires, just didn't know what exactly he was referencing.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:35 AM
  #22
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Exactly. I would have felt sorry for Lindsey if she wasn't flaunting too.

Were you shocked that Haley never questioned Luke on any of this? I just find it weird that Haley of all people acted like Lucas and Lindsey were meant to be! She even came down on Leyton for the kiss (which we've discussed was a bit rich considering her past even as a married woman) but you'd have to think Haley understood Lucas was still deeply in love with Peyton. This to me also pokes down the idea of Haley/Lindsey being close friends too. If they were, Haley would have warned her about the situation instead of being so passive.
I was actually pretty shocked that Haley didn't really call Lucas out on anything he did in S5, since she certainly had no issues doing that previously. It did really annoy me that she was still thinking that LL were meant to be after Luke cheated on her so willingly, and that's not even mentioning his behaviour from the episode before the kiss, which was pretty bad imo and Haley saw that first hand. No offense, but if Brooke can pick up on the fact he was clearly still in love with Peyton without really spending any time, it should be pretty obvious to his best friend from childhood, Even after she made the connection with the Comet, I still feel she was too passive with him and should have pretty called out on him cheating on Lindsay at that moment and how his actions showed he was hiding his heart again.

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It's definitely possible drastic storyline changes took place as a result of Bryan's availability and of course... the Chad/Sophia marriage that lasted about two seconds but still, TPTB wanted to cash on on it even if the storyline never made sense. Still though, I love how Sophia was a Leyton fan from the start and it never wavered. She understood it was Lucas/Peyton from the beginning and she loved this fact. This was before the marriage, during the marriage, after the marriage and I think it speaks volumes. She knew Lucas/Peyton were the Ephram/Amy of One Tree Hill.
I think Mark might haven't been sure at the start of season of Jake/Bryan's availability for the season, so he give Peyton the cocaine issue, but when that scheduling got confirmed he dropped that storyline and gave her the Peyton/Jake/Jenny stuff we saw. I liked Jake, but I don't think that him coming back affected Peyton's storyline for S2 and not really for the better. The TPTB definitely wanted to take advantage of Chophia's popularity, so that's why they went back to BL in S2, but that doesn't change the fact that it made no sense whatsoever to happen. What pro LP comments has Sophia made?

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Which makes it even worse! Exactly, I was just going by seasons with that estimation but you're right, it was only a couple of months which makes it even more pathetic and insulting. Not only was Brucas a complete 180, but like you said, they didn't explain HOW the 180 came to be. We didn't see how Lucas stopped loving Peyton, we didn't see how out of the blue, Lucas started to fall for Brooke. It's laughable. Brooke/Lucas was all about a physical relationship. They reminded me of Ephram/Madison actually... zero emotional connection but hot in the bedroom. That's all Brooke/Lucas were to each other. Lucas had anything emotional/serious come up, he was ditching Brooke and finding Peyton, his mom, or Haley.
The fact that Luke went from baring about to be in love with Brooke in an couple of months without really spending any time with her is honestly one of most ridiculous things that has happened on this show and that's saying something lol. They are some moments in the second half of S2 that showed that Luke's poi of Brooke had changed, but still no reason why it happened and the closest thing we got was his reasoning for keeping the Peyton's box (which was so bad, but showed how the show had rewrote history in S2). The thing is, it just didn't piss off the LP fanbase either, since a lot of the anti BL fanbase didn't even like S1 LP lol.

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Exactly. How insanely ridiculous was this storyline? They tried SO hard to get people to like Clay/Quinn and Clay in general, they went to extreme lengths but it never worked. Even I would have liked Clay/his deceased wife more too... it was a sweet story but it was ruined when they showed Clay/Quinn while doing the flashbacks. Then they brought in the same actress to poke at Clay/his deceased wife which is incredible. Then they had Clay suffer from mental illness too later on... hey, I am a psychologist, it's what I do for a living and even I didn't care about his supposed amnesia, psychological issues.
It just sounds like Mark was pissed his new creation wasn't well liked and tried anything to try and change it. Didn't the show do an much better job of making Quinn more likeable, since from what I've read most Haley stans preferred her to Brooke by S9.

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It was so gross. They also had Nathan wanting to donate an organ for Clay after an accident and the insinuation was he was choosing Clay over worrying about Haley/children too. It was so weird.

It would be one thing if they brought in Clay/Quinn for Haley's benefit... to have a sister around but that's not why Mark went there. He brought in Clay/Quinn in an attempt to take over Leyton's spot, replace Nathan/Luke with Nathan/Clay, using Haley's sister for a "somewhat family" angle for Nate/Clay like Nate/Luke. It was transparent and disgusting.
Didn't Nathan compare Clay nearly dying to Haley losing her mother too? Kinda sounds ridiculous, especially since he ended up crying over it, but where was that when Luke nearly had an heart attack and it was partially his fault? Honestly, I think it just comes off as Mark letting his ego over Chad leaving out of the show and the Lucas/Nathan relationship.
Would you have been okay with them just adding in Quinn without Clay into the show?

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Taylor was much more interesting, indeed. Love Jana and liked how they let her sing on the show. She has such a great voice! It was such a refreshing aspect of an otherwise torturous last few seasons. The Julian change was WTF.
Agreed, plus I think Lindsay and Joy's chemistry really made you feel believe that they were sisters. I didn't know she was an singer, when did they do that on the show with her? I never really got why they changed Julian tbh, since I really his character (despite his relationship with Peyton lol).

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It was so obvious they were using Felix... especially showing him as initially homophobic too. He was meant to be a villain of sorts. They tried to put Chase and Alex together but I always thought Alex was way too good for Chase. Glad Alex chose music/herself in the end!
The funny thing is that I don't think they originally planned to use him that way and the writers actually planned to redeem his character (but that obviously changed). I think I've seen an few people who liked Chase and Alex together.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:32 AM
  #23
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I figured it had something to do with vampires, just didn't know what exactly he was referencing.
Haha, yeah. Although Madison is such a horrible character, maybe she was half Vampire.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:00 AM
  #24
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I was actually pretty shocked that Haley didn't really call Lucas out on anything he did in S5, since she certainly had no issues doing that previously.
Exactly. Haley was so vocal with her Brooke hatred in season 1. I loved it actually. Haley thought Brooke was a joke personally and not remotely the right fit for Luke. She knew this. She also knew Peyton was far from a joke and definitely the right fit for Luke. She basically said as much multiple times in those early seasons. Why she would have stopped going there after the time jump is an annoying mystery.

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It did really annoy me that she was still thinking that LL were meant to be after Luke cheated on her so willingly, and that's not even mentioning his behaviour from the episode before the kiss, which was pretty bad imo and Haley saw that first hand. No offense, but if Brooke can pick up on the fact he was clearly still in love with Peyton without really spending any time, it should be pretty obvious to his best friend from childhood, Even after she made the connection with the Comet, I still feel she was too passive with him and should have pretty called out on him cheating on Lindsay at that moment and how his actions showed he was hiding his heart again.
Completely agree. It makes zero sense. Great example using Brooke. Brooke was also directly involved in a triangle from hell with Leyton and she still could see the light about Leyton and what they were all about. She understood this from the moment she realized Lucas still loved Peyton, would always love Peyton from about mid-season 3 and on. She never thought anything else from that point forward and I give her credit for it. Haley was wavering, acting so out of character, like she hardly knew the situation. It was so weird. Comet connection should have hit her over the head which caused the convenient amnesia to shatter. She should have had complete understanding again but weirdly and annoyingly it didn't happen. I wish Peyton would have called her from Vegas and told her she didn't appreciate her for one full year.

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I think Mark might haven't been sure at the start of season of Jake/Bryan's availability for the season, so he give Peyton the cocaine issue, but when that scheduling got confirmed he dropped that storyline and gave her the Peyton/Jake/Jenny stuff we saw. I liked Jake, but I don't think that him coming back affected Peyton's storyline for S2 and not really for the better. The TPTB definitely wanted to take advantage of Chophia's popularity, so that's why they went back to BL in S2, but that doesn't change the fact that it made no sense whatsoever to happen. What pro LP comments has Sophia made?
I think that's precisely what happened due to Bryan's situation. I just hated how they made it seem like Jake was the only one able to help Peyton with the drug issue. Right. The network was ridiculous wanting real life and the small screen to collide together. I guess what actually happened on the screen before this time doesn't matter. Sophia constantly talked about Lucas and Peyton being the endgame pairing. She mentioned this more than once which really pissed off Brucas fans. She never wavered, never tried to pimp Brucas, she was always Team Leyton. She also wore a Leyton shirt at one of the functions too which absolutely pissed off Brucas fans. I loved it.

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The fact that Luke went from baring about to be in love with Brooke in an couple of months without really spending any time with her is honestly one of most ridiculous things that has happened on this show and that's saying something lol.
Agreed. There's some outlandish things that took place but this one tops anything and like you said, it means something.

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They are some moments in the second half of S2 that showed that Luke's poi of Brooke had changed, but still no reason why it happened and the closest thing we got was his reasoning for keeping the Peyton's box (which was so bad, but showed how the show had rewrote history in S2). The thing is, it just didn't piss off the LP fanbase either, since a lot of the anti BL fanbase didn't even like S1 LP lol.
LOL Exactly. It's just so stupid because the Leyton story continued even during the stupid Brucas revisit. We never saw Brucas in sync, balanced, emotionally connecting... just the opposite. Lucas/Peyton didn't go away in the least. I remember watching Brooke/Lucas during the revist and practically laughing during their scenes because Lucas wasn't into it and Brooke was crying every two seconds. I really wonder if Mark wanted the revisit. I wonder if it's possible the network wanted it, Mark didn't but went along with it. However, even if the network forced it, that didn't mean Mark was giving up on Leyton or writing Brucas as genuine. It was clear he wrote them in a SO not meant to be way. He was deliberate and spelled it out to the audience that it was going back to Lucas/Peyton.

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It just sounds like Mark was pissed his new creation wasn't well liked and tried anything to try and change it. Didn't the show do an much better job of making Quinn more likeable, since from what I've read most Haley stans preferred her to Brooke by S9.
I think you hit it... Haley stans liked her because she was a part of Haley. They didn't really care that overall the character was used for other things not really having to do with Haley, lol. But there were a few scenes between the sisters that weren't bad. I also didn't totally dislike Quinn as a rule. Get her around Haley and she was just fine. But get her anywhere near Clay and she became this passive, idiotic person. I still don't understand why she dumped the guy she was with for Clay. That was the other disgusting thing. Quinn was in a relationship when she met Clay. Sound familiar? Peyton and Nathan with Lucas coming in between them. The only difference is Nathan was borderline abusive to Peyton and they were doomed from the start. The guy Quinn was with was a really, really good guy who basically gave her the world... loyalty, commitment, love, caring. There was nothing remotely wrong with their relationship... but Quinn dumped him because she basically said he was boring, their life was boring, there was zero excitement. When she was around Clay, it was exciting and she was alive. It was so annoying and stupid! I remember how many people thought Quinn was ridiculous for dumping a great relationship for lame Clay. Tons of Quinn haters developed as a result of what she pulled in her romantic life.

But yes, I think season 9 you had a fanbase kind of divided... Brooke stans and Haley stans. Now they mixed together a little but it was really a battle of which character you preferred and that would dictate how you felt about storylines. Both groups wanted their preference to be the IT girl of the show in other words since they felt Peyton's usual screen time should go to their desired character.

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Didn't Nathan compare Clay nearly dying to Haley losing her mother too? Kinda sounds ridiculous, especially since he ended up crying over it, but where was that when Luke nearly had an heart attack and it was partially his fault? Honestly, I think it just comes off as Mark letting his ego over Chad leaving out of the show and the Lucas/Nathan relationship.
Would you have been okay with them just adding in Quinn without Clay into the show?
Yes, exactly. It was totally ridiculous and I absolutely think it was about Mark pissed off over the lack of Chad and Hilarie. I would have been 100% okay with Quinn only and no Clay. I would have embraced it actually.

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Agreed, plus I think Lindsay and Joy's chemistry really made you feel believe that they were sisters. I didn't know she was an singer, when did they do that on the show with her? I never really got why they changed Julian tbh, since I really his character (despite his relationship with Peyton lol).
Yes, Jana Kramer is actually a country music singer. In fact, she's way more of a musician than actress even if she figured out how to become an actress too if that makes sense. Musician first for Jana, though. Alex was a model first and eventually she was singing too. They had to go there to take advantage of Jana being a musician... she performed multiple times on OTH...

Here's one:



They had an Alex/Chase/Mia triangle. I was Team Alex, lol, and Chase ultimately only wanted Alex but Alex, in the end, chose music/career, and left to go on tour leaving Chase in the dust.

I think they changed Julian somehow for Brooke. I don't really understand why they went there.

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The funny thing is that I don't think they originally planned to use him that way and the writers actually planned to redeem his character (but that obviously changed). I think I've seen an few people who liked Chase and Alex together.
Yes, it was split between Chase/Mia and Chase/Alex. Alex "won" like I said, but she left him to go on tour and it wasn't even open ended. She just said goodbye and that was that.

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Old 09-15-2017, 05:13 AM
  #25
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Haha, yeah. Although Madison is such a horrible character, maybe she was half Vampire.
How does she compare to Lindsay?
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:18 AM
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How does she compare to Lindsay?
Oh I hate Madison much, more more, no question. She lingered longer and basically temporarily ruined the main relationships given what she pulled. She was awful. She was a grown adult and dated Ephram who was only 16. It was an illegal relationship. She was also employed as a nanny by Andy, Ephram's father to basically take care of Delia, Ephram's younger sister. So she enters her place of employment, Andy's house and basically ends up dating Ephram. It was illegal and completely wrong from day 1. Andy begged Ephram and Madison not to date. She gets pregnant, doesn't tell Ephram for ages but decides to tell Ephram hours before he has an audition in NYC. He was a talented pianist. She temporarily messed up multiple relationships on the show. She was horrible!
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:51 AM
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Exactly. Haley was so vocal with her Brooke hatred in season 1. I loved it actually. Haley thought Brooke was a joke personally and not remotely the right fit for Luke. She knew this. She also knew Peyton was far from a joke and definitely the right fit for Luke. She basically said as much multiple times in those early seasons. Why she would have stopped going there after the time jump is an annoying mystery.
How vocal she was about how she didn't like Brooke made me like Haley more lol and I loved how supportive she was of Peyton in S1, so I wished it stuck that way.

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Completely agree. It makes zero sense. Great example using Brooke. Brooke was also directly involved in a triangle from hell with Leyton and she still could see the light about Leyton and what they were all about. She understood this from the moment she realized Lucas still loved Peyton, would always love Peyton from about mid-season 3 and on. She never thought anything else from that point forward and I give her credit for it. Haley was wavering, acting so out of character, like she hardly knew the situation. It was so weird. Comet connection should have hit her over the head which caused the convenient amnesia to shatter. She should have had complete understanding again but weirdly and annoyingly it didn't happen. I wish Peyton would have called her from Vegas and told her she didn't appreciate her for one full year.
Yeah, I really loved the scene where Brooke figured out how Luke still felt about Peyton and her response to his answer was great. I love how when Brooke finally figured out that Luke would always love Peyton, that she never wavered from that. I think it should have been obvious after 5.07 how Luke felt about and how he never cheats just for the sake of it. I wished Haley apologised to Peyton about putting all of the blame on her for what went down with LP for the kiss and the proposal too.

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I think that's precisely what happened due to Bryan's situation. I just hated how they made it seem like Jake was the only one able to help Peyton with the drug issue. Right. The network was ridiculous wanting real life and the small screen to collide together. I guess what actually happened on the screen before this time doesn't matter. Sophia constantly talked about Lucas and Peyton being the endgame pairing. She mentioned this more than once which really pissed off Brucas fans. She never wavered, never tried to pimp Brucas, she was always Team Leyton. She also wore a Leyton shirt at one of the functions too which absolutely pissed off Brucas fans. I loved it.
I didn't like that either and tbh it kinda made Jake look like an knight in shining armour who could make all of Peyton's issues disappear and it made her a little bit pathetic tbh. I didn't like how the network forced that storyline on Mark and I'm glad it blew up on their face. Did she say anything pro LP while Brucas were still together?

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Agreed. There's some outlandish things that took place but this one tops anything and like you said, it means something.
LOL Exactly. It's just so stupid because the Leyton story continued even during the stupid Brucas revisit. We never saw Brucas in sync, balanced, emotionally connecting... just the opposite. Lucas/Peyton didn't go away in the least. I remember watching Brooke/Lucas during the revist and practically laughing during their scenes because Lucas wasn't into it and Brooke was crying every two seconds. I really wonder if Mark wanted the revisit. I wonder if it's possible the network wanted it, Mark didn't but went along with it. However, even if the network forced it, that didn't mean Mark was giving up on Leyton or writing Brucas as genuine. It was clear he wrote them in a SO not meant to be way. He was deliberate and spelled it out to the audience that it was going back to Lucas/Peyton.
The only time Leyton didn't get anything while Brucas were 'together' was the second half of S2 and that's mostly because Peyton was with Jake at the time. There was just way too many hints when BL were together in S3 for it not to mean something for LP in the long run. I don't think he really did, but at the same time he needed something to drag LP for a bit longer and going back to BL gave him that opportunity to do that. Still was pretty clear where his heart was when it came to triangle though (similar to Luke's too lol).

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But yes, I think season 9 you had a fanbase kind of divided... Brooke stans and Haley stans. Now they mixed together a little but it was really a battle of which character you preferred and that would dictate how you felt about storylines. Both groups wanted their preference to be the IT girl of the show in other words since they felt Peyton's usual screen time should go to their desired character.
I think you hit it... Haley stans liked her because she was a part of Haley. They didn't really care that overall the character was used for other things not really having to do with Haley, lol. But there were a few scenes between the sisters that weren't bad. I also didn't totally dislike Quinn as a rule. Get her around Haley and she was just fine. But get her anywhere near Clay and she became this passive, idiotic person. I still don't understand why she dumped the guy she was with for Clay. That was the other disgusting thing. Quinn was in a relationship when she met Clay. Sound familiar? Peyton and Nathan with Lucas coming in between them. The only difference is Nathan was borderline abusive to Peyton and they were doomed from the start. The guy Quinn was with was a really, really good guy who basically gave her the world... loyalty, commitment, love, caring. There was nothing remotely wrong with their relationship... but Quinn dumped him because she basically said he was boring, their life was boring, there was zero excitement. When she was around Clay, it was exciting and she was alive. It was so annoying and stupid! I remember how many people thought Quinn was ridiculous for dumping a great relationship for lame Clay. Tons of Quinn haters developed as a result of what she pulled in her romantic life.
I think way more Haley stans disliked Brooke than vice versa lol, since Haley propped Brooke quite a bit from what I hear.
I think that might have been true, but some of them definitely didn't like Taylor so I'm not sure how true that statement is. From what I've read, they just start liking her more when she started being an better sister to Haley and stopped making everything about her, something Brooke had issues with S8 and 9 lol. That whole storyline and I don't really get what Mark was thinking there lol.

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Yes, exactly. It was totally ridiculous and I absolutely think it was about Mark pissed off over the lack of Chad and Hilarie. I would have been 100% okay with Quinn only and no Clay. I would have embraced it actually.
It's annoying that Lathan were one of the most important relationships of the show in the first six seasons of the show and Mark'e ego ruined it. How would have added in place of Clay?

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Yes, Jana Kramer is actually a country music singer. In fact, she's way more of a musician than actress even if she figured out how to become an actress too if that makes sense. Musician first for Jana, though. Alex was a model first and eventually she was singing too. They had to go there to take advantage of Jana being a musician... she performed multiple times on OTH...

Here's one:



They had an Alex/Chase/Mia triangle. I was Team Alex, lol, and Chase ultimately only wanted Alex but Alex, in the end, chose music/career, and left to go on tour leaving Chase in the dust.

I think they changed Julian somehow for Brooke. I don't really understand why they went there.

Yes, it was split between Chase/Mia and Chase/Alex. Alex "won" like I said, but she left him to go on tour and it wasn't even open ended. She just said goodbye and that was that.
Okay, cool that the show took advantage of her singing ability. I don't really get why they Julian changed for Brooke, especially since it's not like she didn't love him in S6 or anything. So Alex won by ending with Chase? Hahah
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:53 AM
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Oh I hate Madison much, more more, no question. She lingered longer and basically temporarily ruined the main relationships given what she pulled. She was awful. She was a grown adult and dated Ephram who was only 16. It was an illegal relationship. She was also employed as a nanny by Andy, Ephram's father to basically take care of Delia, Ephram's younger sister. So she enters her place of employment, Andy's house and basically ends up dating Ephram. It was illegal and completely wrong from day 1. Andy begged Ephram and Madison not to date. She gets pregnant, doesn't tell Ephram for ages but decides to tell Ephram hours before he has an audition in NYC. He was a talented pianist. She temporarily messed up multiple relationships on the show. She was horrible!
And that's saying something haha. How old was she?
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:07 AM
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And that's saying something haha. How old was she?
He was 16, she was 20, almost 21.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:15 AM
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How vocal she was about how she didn't like Brooke made me like Haley more lol and I loved how supportive she was of Peyton in S1, so I wished it stuck that way.
I remember cheering while Haley was ripping Brooke to shreds. Yes, I loved how supportive she was of Peyton in season 1 too. I think that's why season 5 bothered me so much.

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Yeah, I really loved the scene where Brooke figured out how Luke still felt about Peyton and her response to his answer was great. I love how when Brooke finally figured out that Luke would always love Peyton, that she never wavered from that. I think it should have been obvious after 5.07 how Luke felt about and how he never cheats just for the sake of it. I wished Haley apologised to Peyton about putting all of the blame on her for what went down with LP for the kiss and the proposal too.
I really think Haley needed to apologize. She should have said something to Peyton or even Lucas.

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I didn't like that either and tbh it kinda made Jake look like an knight in shining armour who could make all of Peyton's issues disappear and it made her a little bit pathetic tbh. I didn't like how the network forced that storyline on Mark and I'm glad it blew up on their face. Did she say anything pro LP while Brucas were still together?
Yes, for sure. Jake wasn't the king of mature either. He knew it was wise to keep his daughter away from her mother but I never thought it was a good idea to bail and hope for the best. Of course it would eventually catch up to him. It did make Peyton look weak when she was anything but. Glad it blew up too. I do believe while Brucas was together she made comments about the main story being Leyton. Brucas fans loved Sophia but disliked how negative she was about Brucas. She never pimped the ship and was always pro-Leyton.

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The only time Leyton didn't get anything while Brucas were 'together' was the second half of S2 and that's mostly because Peyton was with Jake at the time. There was just way too many hints when BL were together in S3 for it not to mean something for LP in the long run. I don't think he really did, but at the same time he needed something to drag LP for a bit longer and going back to BL gave him that opportunity to do that. Still was pretty clear where his heart was when it came to triangle though (similar to Luke's too lol).
Absolutely. I think then Mark was trying so hard to separate Leyton to make an already screwed up storyline more believable.

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I think way more Haley stans disliked Brooke than vice versa lol, since Haley propped Brooke quite a bit from what I hear.
This is definitely true. It came up a ton on the live episode discussion threads.

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I think that might have been true, but some of them definitely didn't like Taylor so I'm not sure how true that statement is. From what I've read, they just start liking her more when she started being an better sister to Haley and stopped making everything about her, something Brooke had issues with S8 and 9 lol. That whole storyline and I don't really get what Mark was thinking there lol.
No clue either. Just not good, but then again, nothing was really good in seasons 7-9.

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It's annoying that Lathan were one of the most important relationships of the show in the first six seasons of the show and Mark'e ego ruined it. How would have added in place of Clay?
No one. Not kidding. Fighting like hell to get Chad and Hilarie to guest star a couple episodes each of those three seasons should have been Mark's focus instead of trying so hard to replace Lucas and Peyton.

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Okay, cool that the show took advantage of her singing ability. I don't really get why they Julian changed for Brooke, especially since it's not like she didn't love him in S6 or anything. So Alex won by ending with Chase? Hahah
I wonder if Julian being with Peyton in the past was something they wanted to erase entirely so having Julian change showed his dedication to Brooke? I've got nothing. I honestly don't know. I just hated the change. Yes, basically. Chase was a stupid character if you ask me. I couldn't believe Mia and Alex liked him so much. Alex got smart in the end.
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