everwoodfan52

jediwands

Thanks, Betty! This is perfect!

jediwands

Bringing posts over from OT2 since this is now our OTH home, lol:

Me too! Given that she certainly thinks of Lindsey in a negative way, my guess is she thought the marriage was ridiculous, lol. Lucas went there only to run from Peyton and while Lindsey did have feelings for Lucas, I still question how much it was about sticking it to Peyton too. I think that played a role.

Have to bring over that quote for this thread:

^ I love that so much.

Exactly, so lame they dropped the entire storyline when Jake returned. It was just stupid. You do not write such a serious story without preparing properly. Peyton should have been drinking like a fish, chain-smoking pot before cocaine even entered the picture. Then to just drop it completely is also ridiculous too since cocaine is such an addictive drug as well. Mark simply failed in several ways concerning this storyline. Yes, that's what bothers me about Jeyton and Brucas too... Leyton was massive in season 1. It's so weird how they both moved on or tried to move on. It'd be one thing if Leyton reunited in season 2 after trying (a little too hard) to move on which would prove they forced themselves to go there but still found their way back to each other but that's not what happened. Lucas still thinks he should be with Brooke well after this time which is so lame and doesn't make any sense, storyline-wise. Season 4 is concrete as we see Lucas finally admitting it was always Peyton from day 1. We knew this even in seasons 1/2/3 which makes watching Brucas and Jeyton even extra annoying, especially Brucas. Jeyton didn't bother me like Brucas though. I hated that weird family structure thing with Jeyton but overall it kind of made sense that Peyton and Jake would have found each other. They were both sort of outsiders living a very private, secluded type of life. Still, it's weird we were lead to believe that Leyton decided to have amnesia regarding what they went through in season 1. Yes, Lucas had the heart condition and Dan swirling around like a shark ready for blood at any moment. Two very important storylines should have been a main focus for Luke while Mark insisted on Leyton being separated romantically during this time period.

No one.

Seriously, I think it was a massive mistake trying to replace Leyton since two new characters could never accomplish such a task. It's like trying to replace David Johnson on my Fantasy team. Anyway. LOL Honestly, the best route was upping the screentime for Nathan, Haley, and Brooke. Brooke certainly got her scenes though but I still feel like Naley wasn't on the screen nearly enough in seasons 7-9. I would have made Naley the center of the OTH universe in seasons 7-9. The ship had a large fanbase and of course Nathan and Haley alone were major characters too. Why was there a need to bring in Quinn and Clay? There wasn't. Bring in a couple side characters if you want like Alex for example. But to bring in Clay and Quinn and expect them to reach major character status, even eating up so much screentime, Nathan and Haley decrease in screentime was a huge mistake, not to mention beyond irritating.

Clay, number 1. Like fingers down the chalkboard.

Quinn, not a huge fan either.

An easy answer is Dan but he's actually not a least favorite character. I love the actor and throughout all of Dan's story, I could still connect somewhat to the character even if he was 90% dark, 10% gray/white.

Mouth became annoying at times later on, too.

Clay and Quinn win the top spot.

Oh and I highly disliked Brooke seasons 1-4. Season 5 she was much better. Then again, I was talking to Leigh about this and to be honest... Brooke pretty much tried to abduct Angie when you break it down, literally abducted Sam (later confirmed that she didn't tell CPS about Sam living with her when they called about having a baby), and then endangered Sam by sending her back to a potentially unsafe environment with someone she hardly knew. Thus, the later seasons Brooke wasn't always great either. LOL

What about you?

jediwands

Ephram/Amy are a prime example of showing them "together" without the romantic tag always being in place throughout the series. During the time periods they weren't officially together romantically, you still felt like they were together because of that emotional connection. Even if season 2, Berlanti separated them a bit, he still had them together during very important moments while they were with Madison and Tommy. You still felt that E/A and their dynamic was 100% way more important than their temporary romantic relationships. They were together even when apart. I wish Mark would have done something like this with Leyton instead of giving them amnesia in season 2.

Riverdale, I am so pleasantly surprised. Before the series got started, I assumed the dreaded triangle would dictate. Thankfully, the showrunner was clever and put the female friendship between Betty and Veronica as a cornerstone of the show which naturally breaks down that triangle. It's pretty much established Betty/Jug, Archie/Ronnie are THE two ships of the series and I wouldn't be shocked if we never see Betty/Archie romantically which is fine by me. Plus, like you said, the mystery/crime is a huge part of the series which absolutely helps keep the characters connected, and greatly prevents that teen romantic/triangle soap opera drama from showing up that much as well. It is so refreshing.

ds44

It is. I just hope they stick to this formula. Sometimes I think chemistry plays a factor for writers. For example, EA/LP/DS were all kept apart to make other pairings seem viable for the short-term because the actors chemistry was crackling.

jediwands

So true about the chemistry. When it works, it sizzles and cannot be denied. I was never threatened by any romantic pairing for any of those ships (even Brucas and Dan/Blair) because the story from the start and chemistry was too profound, you knew all three pairings were endgame.

Do you think Riverdale will go Betty/Archie eventually? Man, I hope not.

ds44

I don't think they will ever be endgame, but if the show goes on a long time, they might dabble in them.
I didn't really hate any of the main characters on OTH but boy did I hate some of those guest stars especially Lindsay and Tyler Hilton's character Chris.

stlavin95

Yeah, I think she might have even been on the commentary for 5.07, so I wouldn't be shocked if she commented on it. It might have been, Luke trying to prove to everyone that he was over Peyton played an big part in why he proposed so, I wouldn't be shocked if Lindsay said yes to stick it to Peyton.

I wonder if Jake coming up back was planned or something that occurred over the start of season 2? Seems like an weird move to introduce that storyline, only to drop it as soon as him came back. All of the rewriting in season 2 bothers me a lot and it's probably my main issue with that season. Luke suddenly wanting to be with Brooke in 2.10 made no sense whatsoever considering how little he cared about her in Season 1, and it's not even like he spend a lot of time with her either at that point. Peyton definitely cared about Jake and their friendship meant a lot to her, but that's all it was and suddenly acting like she's head over heels for the guy was a bit little ridiculous considering her feelings for Luke in S1. The writers definitely knew that they did an too good of an job of showing Leyton's love for each other in S1, so rewriting history was only way to make it both couples work and imo that shows that those storylines weren't part of the original plan. Jeyton bothers me less than Brucas too, but that's party because they were no where as damaging as to Peyton's character as BL was to Luke's. Honestly, I wouldn't have been against LP dating other people in S2, as along as they didn't act like they weren't in love in S1 as the show actually did. Yep, those storylines should have gotten much more focus for Luke than they did.

I think increasing the core 3's (especially Naley's) screentime probably would have been the best move for the show in those seasons. If they had to add in any characters to replace Leyton, I would have introduced Taylor instead of Quinn, while keeping Alex (heard she was an great actor who just didn't get great storylines) and not changing Julian's character to an massive dork and making him the Luke's replacement for Nathan's best friend. Didn't the writers try way too hard to make people like Clay and Quinn?

Lindsay, all of the psychos, HS Brooke, Felix, Erica, Dan, Deb, Post S3 Mouth, Lauren, Chase (had no purpose after S4 imo), post S5 Mia, Jason.

stlavin95

How did Berlanti keep E/A apart in season 2?

Jerry D

In the beginning of Season Two, Amy was depressed due to Colin's death, and she and the rest of the town blamed Andy for his death, and so by extension she didn't want to be with Ephram because he was Andy's son. Then they had Amy go into a downward spiral and get involved with drug addict Tommy (he later became a vampire ) and Ephram became involved with Madison (don't get me started ) and Ephram and Amy finally got together at the end of Season Two.

jediwands

Amy's childhood boyfriend died from a brain injury at the end of season 1. Ephram and his family moved to Everwood in season 1. Instantly, Ephram and Amy developed a strong emotional connection very similar to how Leyton did. They were just attracted, immediately emotionally connected. Ephram/Amy's connection was always very Spiritual too. There was this meant to be, soulmate tag to them. Colin was in a coma throughout a lot of season 1, and even he came to for a brief time, Amy was still very drawn to Ephram. Colin knew it too. Colin ends up passing away in the finale of season 1. Amy goes into a deep depression over his death. At this point, Ephram/Amy are best friends but very gray, they've kissed a couple times in season 1, they have romantically fallen for each other but when Colin dies, Amy goes into a very deep situational depression and it lasts throughout about 70% of season 2. In the premiere of season 2, she ends up basically telling Ephram in so many words she cannot deal with life or anything heavy. She kind of pushes him away. However even while she's battling depression she is drawn back to Ephram and wants to make it work with him romantically... but at that point Ephram starts dating someone else... let's put it this way... she's way more hated than Lindsey or Brooke seasons 1/2/3. LOL So the timing sucked and Amy never tells Ephram her true feelings because she wants him to be happy while she's a mess. They dance together so intimately as she's basically saying goodbye to him romantically. I bawled, lol. Amy ends up superficially dating someone in season 2 as well but it's not serious at all. There's scenes between Ephram/Amy where they are clearly jealous and make fun of who the other is dating. It's so clear there's jealousy/annoyance too. They basically had separate scenes mostly in season 2 for a handful of episodes BUT whenever they shared a scene, they are back with the emotional connection and romantic undertones. Berlanti set it up where they both officially are done with the other two people they dated at the same time. Immediately once those break ups take place, they are back to spending time together. They have this classic scene together walking, talking about stuff, and they share fries together, it's so damn sweet. From that point forward, they work their way to that romantic relationship and they officially get together in the finale of season 2. It's beautiful.

The cool thing about Ephram/Amy? Amy was a virgin and literally only slept with Ephram... it's rare and really unique. Ephram actually only slept with one other girl, the girl everyone hated named Madison in season 2. I love this so much. There were zero romantic triangles for Ephram/Amy. They were either romantically together, or still very emotionally romantically connected when they didn't have that title. They got a huge, epic endgame at the end of the series.

Here is a classic example of the magical Ephram/Amy... this was in a season 4 episode but it was a flashback from season 2 when Amy is still battling depression and they're with those other people I mentioned... Madison and Tommy. Amy is so confused and overwhelmed when Ephram says those beautiful words to her at the end of the clip due to the depression... but you can see how emotionally/spiritually connected they are and Amy's suffering from depression, and they're with other people. This is classic Ephram/Amy. Mark should have taken a page out of Berlanti's book...



Ephram: I think you're wrong though...

My heart stopped when he said that, goosebumps... Ephram/Amy right there is who Ephram's talking about.

Perfect example of them being together even when technically not together....

Here's another example... this is in season 4, they are both totally in love with each other still but they broke up, not because they didn't love each other, but something else... long story... anyway, this is season 4... Amy is drunk, lol so cute, and check out when they dance, the chemistry! The way Ephram stares as they're holding each other... Ephram/Amy had a thing with dancing... they dance together and the chemistry just scorches... Greg and Emily had flawless chemistry, they didn't even have to say a word to each other and the chemistry took over...



Here they are together romantically, thought I'd get one in there.

jediwands

I should have just waited for you to respond since I babbled then got carried away with Ephram/Amy scenes too..

jediwands

The one scenario that I would love to see because it would deal with the romantic feelings in early season one... let's say JB and AV are both on breaks. I could imagine a scenario where Betty and Archie are hanging out together one night, maybe even drinking, and they get caught up in the moment and kiss. Shortly after the kiss they both realize they went there because they were hurting over the other two and their best friendship is what they cherish the most, not a romantic relationship. If something like that happened I would totally be on board because it would explain away those early season one romantic feelings. We could see the both of them mutually realizing together their strongest relationship together is the best friendship, not being in romantic territory.

jediwands

She read his books and understood what Peyton Sawyer meant to Lucas. She also saw it with her own two eyes in season 5 there was still something between them. She knew and like the actress said, she was not to be depicted in a positive light.

I wonder if this is due to the actor. Maybe shortly before this they wanted him longer term and it couldn't be worked out. Thus, the rewriting?

It was an annoying, confusing, nauseating turn of events. I remember my eyes as big as silver dollars when I realized they were actually revisiting Brucas. I couldn't even believe it. It made ZERO sense and was so lame. The story didn't remotely dictate this Brucas revisit. So stupid. As a Leyton fan, I would have been okay with Lucas/Peyton spending more time apart. They were already established in season 1. I could wait for the pay off. But to throw this ridiculous curve ball and have Luke insanely think he had romantic feelings for Brooke after everything in season 1... Brooke, not a great person, Brooke throwing Peyton back at an ex that treated her like crap so she could nail Luke (literally), Brooke allowing Lucas to get a tattoo/getting drunk/wild, basically seducing him so he'd fall for her... none of that worked in the end because he had fallen for Peyton... then Brooke being the demon child that she typically was during this time period had the audacity to fake a freaken pregnancy. Oh but yes, Luke falls for her sincerely 6-12 months later. Right on. It made no sense and burns me up just thinking about it.

Exactly.

I completely agree. The Brucas revisit is the annoying part because from a storyline standpoint, it was insulting the audience with that crap. It made no sense.

They tried way too hard! It was so annoying. It was weird because while they tried to go there... they gave this sob story about Clay's ex and how he lost her as an attempt to get you immediately... all it did for me was wish it was Clay who died, not the ex. But in the process, they showed Clay as this big screw up too... he was the worlds worst sport agent ever and almost severely messed with Naley/their money/Nate's career. They had Nathan basically act like at times he cared more about Clay over Luke, it was really weird. They were forcing this new "brother" dynamic. I wasn't buying it. I agree about Taylor for Quinn. I hated what they did to Taylor all to pimp Quinn. Loved Alex. Love the actress. She had spunk. She was certainly rough around the edges (initially) but she was at least intriguing. Agreed about Julian too.

LOL I forgot about Felix. Couldn't stand him. "All the psychos" haha, so true. Chase was basically around to look like a pretty guy, he served zero purpose, you are right. I could have been on board with Chase and Brooke if constructed differently (or if I actually cared about Brooke then lol) but it was just stupid from the start.

stlavin95

Thanks for that, sounds interesting. Mark should have done something along those lines in season 2 and 3 instead of the BL/JP storylines.