Everwood Episode Discussion #414: Across the Lines
 

FF is back up and we have an episode tonight. Good deal. This episode surely contains some interesting storylines. I hope it's as good as it appears to be.

Can't wait for tonight's episode ... especially the Hannah/Amy fight ... that's been building up.

I completely agree, Ken. The build up has been enormous. I am so looking forward to it.

I can't wait for the Hannah/Amy fight either. I've been wanting someone to (figuratively) smack some sense into Amy for a while now...ever since season 2 Amy started making a comeback.

What bothered me the most about the Amy/Hannah friendship in season 3 was that it seemed way too perfect. All about unrealistic. Real friends are not about perfection 24/7. You fight, sometimes severely. I have been waiting for the flaws and kinks to appear between Amy/Hannah. About time.

Precisely. I'm sorry but there was zero substance to their friendship in season 3. They shared some touching moments regarding Hannah's fathers death, most definitely, but outside of that, I saw nothing else that was anything to write home about. In fact, I think in all actuality, Bright was there for Hannah even more than Amy was during her fathers illness and eventual death. He was the one that helped her in the big picture kind of way. Amy helped as well but I think Bright was much more of a force in helping Hannah during this time.

So yeah, I cannot think of anything of substance between them in season 3 outside of some slight stuff with her fathers illness. Everything else was all about the superficial boy talk and gossip with lots and lots of girly giggling, laughing about silly things.

I have one or two close friends that I share an emotional and substance-filled friendship/connection with. I feel like it is as real as it can be and with that, I look at the Amy/Hannah friendship and find it amusing because it is so opposite of what I feel like I have in my life. I just don't understand how their friendship even lasted as long as it did, to be honest. I am very, very glad that Rina finally grew a brain and showed a hint of realism.

So true. They are clearly on different paths right now. So, so obvious. And there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe they will come back to each other eventually and develop something with more substance but as of right now, they are world's apart.

Totally, totally agree. I also thought it was strangely OOC for Amy. I was just shocked to see Amy transform into that type because I never saw she had that potential in her in season 1 or 2. It was like the minute she got around Hannah, she totally changed somehow. I don't get it. Who knows, maybe we aren't giving Rina enough credit. Did I just say that? Heh. But seriously, maybe she was always setting them up for a fall? Maybe she was. I don't know.

Yes, she has and I commend her for it. Makes me love my favorite character of the series that much more. :)

Me too. I want E/A to get back together as much as the next person but I have patience that it will happen when the time is right. The time is certainly not right now and that's just fine by me. Why can't Hannah see that at all?

You are so right on about how Hannah is still in fantasy mode. God, so true. I think she will snap out of this fantasty eventually. It is all about timing. I think once she grows up a bit, she might see the light. That's what I think I loved the most about this episode, it showed Hannah's immaturity and flaws. Perfect.

Exactly. So well said. Amy did stop with the politics and social issues, she completely backed off, not that she was ever attacking in the first place. But Amy really did let that go. Hannah never let go of her Ephram and E/A obsession, which, if you take even a quick glance at Amy, annoys the hell out of her. She seems so frustrated.

You are so right on that Amy never put restrictions on Ephram and what he can and cannot do. She hasn't kept him hanging in the least. In my mind, Ephram was way more confusing and put her in limbo at the end of season 3 before they officially broke up. Not that he didn't have his reasons to be "off" but still. What Amy is doing is not a strike against her where she is selfish or demanding. Not at all. She was honest with Ephram and told him exactly how she felt. The straight truth. Too bad Hannah is not allowing Amy to take care of her own personal relationships. :rolleyes: I think Hannah's pushing was way out of line.

I think a lot of it also falls back on the fact that Amy/Hannah have very little in common. Hannah instantly thinks they bond over Ephram. Sad but true. She does think that this is their "bonding instrument." If this is the case, and I think it might be, we are now seeing how they crumble whenever Ephram is taken away.

Amy/Hannah need more substance in their friendship. It couldn't be more obvious.

Heh. Yep. Here we go thinking alike again. I just mentioned this above without noticing you wrote the same thing. Wasn't the automatic switch to Ephram quite telling? You could tell Hannah's mind was almost panicked, she knew she needed to search for something that they could "bond" over. The problem is, Amy saw right through it, thus, her disgusted look.

Heck yeah. Lack of substance is so apparent.

I can't even elaborate on this. It's way too perfect. 100% agree.

Yeah, I know. I couldn't believe her behavior. Maybe the dancing and drinking wasn't her gig. Cool. But I have to wonder why she went in the first place then? Didn't she know where they were going, what they might be doing? Did she truly think that drinking would never be happening? I'm baffled at what she thought was going on that night. And I'm not saying that she should have just faked it and completely acted like she was into the drinking and dancing. Not at all. But her judging eyes she so obviously displayed proved to me she was way out of line. No one was forcing her to be there. She didn't have to go.

Me too. Her behavior, passive aggressive stuff was old, tiring and annoying. It was almost like a form of game playing to her. And her immaturity was coming out in full force which only added to it.

Indeed. So awesome. I adore how Everwood takes an issue, a serious one at that, and bravely shows both sides. Brilliant. I also loved the continuity going on.. In season 1, Harold struggled with the pros and cons of medicinal marijuana and now here he is back struggling with the same thing. I love how this show is not like the Brady Bunch. Issues and real life stuff is not solved in one episode. It takes time. Sometimes years. Extremely realistic.

I've been there with my med student friend. She is naturally smart so she can pick things up right away if she applies herself, which she always does.. However, even with the knowledge that if she puts in the work, she will be okay, the stress and drama going on during this entire time is tough. She barely ever sleeps, I thought I never slept. :lol: And her hours at the clinic are nuts. There is never much stability once you are in med school. It's hard to grasp onto any normalcy because everything is so all over the place and you have to adjust no matter what curve balls you get.

So I can understand the pressure he must be under, especially if he is struggling.

Oh man, I Know! I did not pay one ounce of attention whenever they were on the screen together. I don't like how Rina couldn't care less that it so blatently obvious that Jake is only being used as a wedge between Andy/Nina to delay their romantic relationship. He has zero purpose! So. Incredible. Annoying.

I know. :( That felt off. I mean, we were hit with a double dosage, a severe lack of Amy in last week's and the same with Ephram in this week's. And that obviously translates to a severe lack of Ephramy as well. Really, really sucks.

Yeah, exactly. It absolutely seems as if Bright/Reid are not close at all but that maybe Ephram/Reid are friendly and even talking about some in depth things such as Ephram and his piano and now Reid and his medical school stuff. So yeah, Ephram/Reid are certainly not talking about sports, although it would be cool if they were. Hahaha. Okay, a joke because of how much I love sports. Heh. What I mean is they are talking about serious issues and I think that could signal the possibility that they are truly becoming close friends.

What a horrible Episode. I don't know where to start..

Ephram a scene not longer than a second, a squint and you miss him..

Reid who cares about his studyingn problems? Who cares if he's cheating in a test or not? I don't..

Amy & Hannah I understand Hannah being bored at Diner. But it's enough that she always tries to work things out between E/A. It's non of her business..

Rose, Harold and Mr. Marijuana I didn't get the point of this Story? Why was this Man there? Have we ever heard or seen someone or something of a supporter Group of Rose? And why did they bring up this Man? Just to make Harold jealous?

Jake Oh goodness, pls leave Everwood and never come back. Why did he feel so obsessed about this Man? Just because this Man has an alcohol problem and he, Jake, a drug problem? Yeah, they have got lots in common :rolleyes:

Just seems like, with only 8 Episodes to go, we won't get common storylines from the couple we want resp. I want. I want storylines with E/A and Andy/Nina. I don't bother about Reid and Jake's problems. It's enough, just bring some sense back to Everwood..

I completely agree. While I'm trying my hardest to exhibit some patience with regards to waiting for Rina to get to E/A and A/N, it's still so incredibly hard to sit and wait. And sit and wait... It also doesn't help matters that instead, we are being shoved Reid and Jake down our throats. Who cares? Give that screentime to Delia (where was she?), Edna and Irv. Do something, anything, but shove us with Reid and Jake stuff.

I am less annoyed with E/A, only because we get to see both Amy and Ephram grow a little before they are led back to each other eventually. But Jake just plain bores me and is so obviously being used just to keep Nina and Andy apart and its been dragged on far too long. This late in the game just let Andy and Nina as well as fans be happy with them together for once. I bet it draws more in than this stupid triangle has. And not only is Jake just a ploy he also gets his own lame storylines every week that I just pay no attention to. It makes zero sense IMO.:sleep:

So true. Jake is absolutely pointless. There is no other way around it.

Yeah, that's very true about E/A. They are both doing their own thing, working on themselves, growing as individuals before they reunite. That does make a ton of sense. At least there is some sort of progression going on there in the sense that they are heading towards each other. With A/N, it is stale and slow, so incredibly slow. You don't even get hints that they are moving towards each other. Hell, Andy is almost the shrink for Nina/Jake's relationship. :rolleyes:

A/N are long overdue. Bring it on, already.

Didn't Everwood used to be about the Browns and the Abbotts?
Didn't the emotional core of the show lie in the interaction between Andy/Ephram, Ephram/Amy, Amy/Harold, Andy/Delia, and Andy/Harold? Other than the Abbott dinner scene, which was not exactly an emotional powerhouse, does anyone recall any scenes between these treasured pairings last night? What exactly was that show masquerading as Everwood?
Andy reduced to the role of foil to JAKE??
Ephram as a mere advisor to REID??
The rest of the world there to make HANNAH the star?
When did it become the norm for SUPPORTING characters (none of whom are listed as regulars in the credits) to have the major story lines?
For this we had to miss Delia, Irv, Edna?
I just don't get it. Who CARES about these people? I thought "supporting" meant SUPPORTING.
After the classic scenes the last few weeks between Andy/Ephram, Andy/Delia, and Amy/Ephram, this was a disappointment.

I don't really feel the urge to take sides in the Amy/Hannah snit. Regretfully, Amy is still demonstrating massive self-absorbtion (it was completely thoughtless of her to set up a "catch up on our friendship" date with Hannah and then bring others into the equation). And Hannah is acting like a two year-old who has lost her lollipop, along with showing an eerie obsession with Ephram. But Hannah does have one legitimate point: Amy is being unfair to Ephram. I certainly don't begrudge Amy her thirst for new experiences, her "Europe" if you will. I've always felt she had a lot of growing to do. But she is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She's cast Ephram in the role of safety net, expecting him to be there whenever SHE is ready for their relationship to resume. Meanwhile he is left to sit wondering when, and IF, this will happen. His feelings don't seem to be a factor to Amy at all. How fair is that? I know Ephram treated Amy poorly last year, but to me that doesn't make her behavior right. The only way this story line will ultimately work, in my opinion, is for Ephram to meet someone else he finds attractive and start dating her. Then Amy will have to confront her feelings for him; something she has the luxury of not doing now.

I found the whole Rose marijuana flirtation somewhat amusing, but essentially pointless. It didn't really address any social issue which hadn't been addressed earlier (medical marijuana use), and we've known forever that Harold gets jealous at the drop of a hat. I feel sorry for Harold right now, and it's not because of randy cancer patients. It's because of the adoption application. Harold loves Rose so much that he lied on the application to spare Rose the hurt of being rejected for adoption due to her cancer history. But Harold is all about honor, even to the point of having performed abortions, which he obviously found repugnant, to honor his father. This must be killing him.

Jake/Nina and Jake's addiction: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Reid and his problems: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snort zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I don't think the show has a prayer of surviving the cut unless the emphasis is returned to the core characters and their relationships. That certainly wasn't the case last night. The most compelling thing about Everwood has always been that it draws the viewer in emotionally. I wasn't drawn in last night.

P.S. I wonder what the drinking age is in Colorado. Amy is eighteen, right?

P.P.S. So is the Brown/Abbott medical partnership charging patients or not? If not, what is Harold doing for income?

Angela, great post with the Reid storyline. I agree that they threw it right in and it seems like nobody cares because he's not even really linked to anyone. I wish they had more buildup. But med school is difficult, and many of my classmates dropped out or failed and had to repeat a year. I feel so bad for him because sometimes the work is so much and I know that I contemplated taking a year off to recharge my batteries. They could have done a lot more with this storyline because it's so realistic, but I really don't care because I don't care about Reid.

Didn't like this episode much either. Everything seemed off, especially after last week's amazing episode. Where are all the interactions that this show is built on? Where the hell was Ephram?? Loved Hannah finally telling Amy how she felt, but I have not been liking Amy for the past few episodes. She just seems so off and not herself. It's as if she's conforming to the people around her- would she have really hung out with the "Olson twins" before? Someone needs to kick her in the pants.

Hmm...I seem to be the only person on this entire thread that cares even a little about Jake. That's okay. I don't care if I'm alone in my Nina/Jake love. Sometimes you have to go against the grain. I realize that he is pretty much seen as a placeholder until the Nina/Andy relationship boils over, but I'm holding out hope that something with a little more substance happens. I personally find his story kind of interesting. I've always thought Andy needed to expand beyond his current Harold/Nina circle and include some more friends, so I'm glad to see him being Jake's foil. It looks like it may continue if the implication of the addiction group storyline holds.

As for Hannah/Amy...I don't know where to start. Maybe Amy is acting more like herself this season, but I see her as being a self-absorbed little b*tch. Hannah can't accept differences? What about Amy? Any time she finds out someone sports an opinion different than hers (or the one her super-great new teacher put in her head), then she first attacks that person, then immediately fall back on "let's not talk about it because we'll only fight" whenever that person tries to fire back. She did it with Harold when he spoke against abortion, and she's done it with Hannah for the same thing. It's like it is fine for Amy to jump someone for having a different opinion, but god forbid someone speak out against Amy. Her opinion is obviously the one that is right, and no one else should even consider disagreeing.

Amy was also in the wrong when she brought her college friends to dinner. She set the date up under the guise of her and Hannah working on their friendship, then she springs two of her other friends on Hannah without even consulting her. It gives me the impression that she feels like she wants to keep Hannah as a friend, but she's almost too scared to be alone with her anymore because there is nothing she is comfortable talking about.

Hannah was a little passive agressive when she went to Bright, but that is totally in character. I found it more annoying that Amy responded to the revelation that Hannah told Bright how much she didn't like their dinner by immediately tossing out something to throw a wrench in Hannah and Bright's relationship. Sure Hannah needs to actually grow a bit of a spine and tell her boyfriend she hates going to those parties, but Amy didn't tell Bright out of any concern for Hannah. In my opinion she did it out of spite.

Now I do think that Hannah does have a bit of a fixation with Ephram/Amy, but MAKRO did make a good point: Amy basically told Ephram that she wanted to get back together with him, just at some arbitrary point in the future after she's had her 'Europe'. I'm all for the characters growing and experiencing things on their own, but she shouldn't ask the man who just declared his love for her to basically sit by the phone and wait for her to call...and Hannah called her on that. And what did Amy do? She lashed out, then backed off and said the usual "Let's not talk about it" routine. God. And to think that Amy used to be one of my favorite characters.

I agree totally about Reid though. Why am I supposed to care that he is flunking, and a cheater?

P.S. I found Amy's bellydancing friend to be annoying as well. I've found her annoying since day one.

I must be in the minority because I really liked this episode. I enjoyed Hannah going off on Amy. Amy has been really rude and more stuck up than she normall is in the past few episode. Hannah was just trying to be her friend. I believe that Amy has and still does care so much about what people think of her. She is being consumed by her college life that it has changed who she is and people close to her such as Hannah are not liking the new Amy. I think Hannah was right about what she said to Amy about Ephram. Amy needs to either get back together with him or speicifically tell him that it is over and to move on. Amy has kept on Ephram on a hook ever since they broke up.
The Andy/Jake rescuing of the drunk man was heroic and it showed that the two doctors who used to be rivals have put away their differences and are starting to work together. I liked the idea of what Jake wants to do in Everwood. The ethics of Jake were questioned in this episode.
Where was Ephram in this episode? I don't believe I saw him in this one. Did he even appear? I am glad that Ephram's protege Kyle did not appear. I can't stand Kyle. He is so annoying and a big cry baby.
One of the things that I liked in this episode was the bickering betwee Harold and Rose over that pot smoking man from her support group. It was good to see that Rose did the right thing.

Okay this is personal opinion, maybe because I am on the liberal side of things, but like Amy I stop talking about things like abortion and contraceptives when I learn the other person is more conservative than me because I don't want to offend them. I want to respect their opinion but it is clear we would never agree or change the other person so whats the point of arguing about it. Thats exactly why Amy dropped it when she saw Hannah had a different opinion and was getting upset discussing PP, abortion, etc. She was respecting her opinion while saying we won't agree. I also always got the feeling Amy was pro-choice, maybe its my assumption because she never brought up anything different and she had no problem asking for birth control, but thats the feeling. She may be more active about it because of her new professor but I never felt she abruptly changed her stance from pro life to pro choice just because shes obsessed with her professor. I feel Hannah has got tons more sympathy just for being pro life. Maybe I am reading that wrong, but I was furious that Hannah acted like Amy would all of a sudden stop working at PP and change her opinions just because she had a rough day there and go crawling back to Ephram. I hate that Ephram ditched Amy last year with barely a good bye or an explanation for why he had to go figure things out in Europe ALONE, but Amy can't stop dating for 5 seconds without ruining her life without a man.

Okay maybe I also am self absorbed and my friends are self absorbed, but when you get to college usually what happens is you fit your new friends in with your old friends or your old friends tend to be put at a distance. This is my experience. Of course I do set time for friends one on one when I go home, but my friends always feel free to bring new people along when we have a night out and I do the same. Maybe Amy thought Hannah would want to meet new people or get more involved in her life away from Everwood. Or this would connect them on a new level by having other friends in common. The point is Amy didn't mean to sabotage her evening with Hannah. Its not any of their fault that Hannah didn't like Amy's friends. It really creeps me out that Hannah seems to have zero friends outside of Amy, Bright, and on a casual basis Ephram. Why is this? Sure shes shy but I guess shes been counting on Amy to be her only friend, even though Amy now is at college most of the time, or at Sam's working, while Hannah is at County High. Why does Hannah have no friends there? Its so weird. Honestly now that I am away from home I have a closer relationship with people at college because we have similar experiences, classes, interests, geography, political views, the list could go on. I am not purposely trying to lose interest in my old high school friends its just something that happens as you mature. Maybe people don't want to believe that, but in my opinion it happens. Ask my friends or family I guarantee they'll say Amy's situation is completely normal. College does consume your life and its easier to be with friends who are also consumed by it and around you more often.

Perhaps its in character for Hannah. But I would refuse to hang out with someone who wasn't only not honest about how she was feeling about me or my friends even though we're "best friends", but also runs to someone else to bitch about it too. I rather my best friend tell me to my face what she thought, rather than running to my brother to whine about it. This friendship is anything but based in reality. I seriously could never get along with Hannah, all she does is whine, and find ways to make things less fun.

I'll make this point again. Yes Amy might have been wrong in telling Ephram he is her person because it assumes they'll get back together and might make Ephram hold back on life. But she never told Ephram to stop dating or having a life. Ephram didn't hold back in making out with the girl at the party...IMO if Ephram is happy without Amy when she is finally ready to have him back then its her fault and she'll have to live with it. It is none of Hannah's business. When the declaration came out that Hannah no longer wants Amy getting involved with her and Bright, Amy respected that, so why can't Hannah respect she no longer wants to talk about Ephram 24/7 while she figures out her life and what she wants. I hate that Ephram gets all the sympathy. Many college girls are going through what Amy is going through. Its hard to say forever to a guy when you are just 18 years old, just like when Ephram found it hard last year to say forever to Amy at 17 or 18. Sometimes a break in a relationship is good to see life, I actually know a couple people who did just that. And they realized if he or she does find someone else while they wait it out then thats something they'll deal with, not their passive aggressive killjoy friend.

Funny how we all forget the 3rd season. :sigh:

I'm not trying to attack anyone's opinions, I just feel that I and many other people I know have been where Amy is at and I don't think its about purposely ignoring Hannah and total self-absoprtion, people change and mature and you're not always going to be best friends with the people you were in high school.

I guess my point is even if it was boring to some or the fight and/or Amy were annoying, in my experiences I could relate to it. I do have a friend that gets annoyed we aren't as close as we were before college or before our paths went different ways. We still see each other but I wouldn't consider her a best friend or us as close as we were while in grade school. And truthfully she always wants to meet my new friends and not be secluded in our friendship. Hannah didn't even come off as a concerned friend, she just seemed jealous of Amy's new friends. I did't get that about Hannah.