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Old 01-22-2011, 12:57 AM
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Everwood Episode Discussion #410: Ghosts

Ghosts

Original Airdate: March 27, 2006

Description: With a week having past since they slept together, Ephram (Gregory Smith) and Amy (Emily Van Camp) must figure out what this new development means for their future, and Nina (Stephanie Niznik) and Jake (Scott Wolf) face the biggest obstacle of their relationship yet. Meanwhile, Irv's (John Beasley) brutally honest description of Andy (Treat Williams) in his debut novel causes Andy to take a long look in the mirror, and Ephram realizes that he and Kyle (Steven R. McQueen) may have even more in common than he originally thought.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:37 PM
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I know I haven't been able to get to a lot of your thoughts the last two nights (I hope to tomorrow night or Monday), but I cannnnn't wait until you get to this one. (1) It's the episode with Ephram's hat. (2) It's a very underrated episode to me, and when S4 really becomes amazing.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:55 PM
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I have seen this episode. I'm up to 4x14 actually. I just wanted to create a thread. I'll give my thoughts, definitely.

And I'm glad someone sees hat parts of Season 4 were kind of mellow...just dragging along.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:28 AM
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not really double posting since the previous post was oh...a day before.

Hannah/Bright…Amy/Ephram

I do find it rather coincidental that both Ephram and Amy call their respective confidants at the same exact time with the quintessential same problem. Amy is confused where it’s going and Ephram wonders if sleeping together means she would want to get back together. And of course Hannah and Bright have conflicting advice. And yay, Bright and Hannah on six months. I can’t believe that Bright is in a great relationship for six months! Hannah is the girl for him, that’s right!

Andy/Nina

Okay, we all love Andy/Nina…and if you don’t…sucks to be you (kidding lol) But how many times is that lady gonna run her little legs over to Andy Brown’s house to get his opinion on things when she has a boyfriend she should be talking to. Is it that she’s so in love with Andy that she wants him to know every aspect of her life and all of his input too. Or is it the fear of opening up to someone else about her fears means she’ll lose them. Nina automatically opened up to Andy. I mean when I saw the first episode and before I even joined the Everwood board, I knew there would be something. It’s typical. Lonely widower falls for the neighbor. But it was instants. It’s not like that for Nina and the guys she’s dated and even gotten serious with. Well she told everything to Carl and turns out that he was gay and didn’t care about her feelings, obviously. And that’s the last time Nina really opened up to someone. If Andy weren’t there when the whole Carl thing happened, I doubt she would’ve been as honest as she was and still is. The thing about these two. They know all the good and the bad about each other. Nina was front and center with Ephram and Andy’s first really big fight (one of many) in Everwood. How can you hold back the true feelings after being witness to something like that. I don’t think Nina ever trusted anyone with her feelings, except for Andy. Sure Andy has said hurtful things to her, but they were the truth and came from a good place with good intentions. I think Nina doesn’t trust anyone with her life and her feelings and that’s why she can’t commit to another man or anything else.

Jake/Nina

Jake went to rehab in Carbondale. Okay, great. But hasn’t he done this before. Isolated himself in rehab and yeah it worked the first time. But it’s like that bouncy ball thing. You pulled back and when you let go and turns back in the same place it was. Jake is never going to learn how to live with his addiction until he admits it to himself. He was holding it back from Nina, the other two physicians in town and from himself. I guess if he pretended long enough and never told anyone, then it never really happened. But addiction is always apart of someone as much as their left arm is. It’s apart of Jake, as much as he wants to deny it and pretend he’s okay…he’s not. He’ll ruin himself and everyone around him. Nina can deal but what about Sam? He invited Sam into his life like he was planning on being a stepfather and planning on marrying Nina. But I don’t think Jake ever planned to do that at all. I think…I think…that Jake never planned anything. He just had this idea to stop in this Podunk town and figure that if anyone can get cured anywhere, Everwood is the place. And just because it has trees and mountains, it’s not a place to rehab. Honestly, the nuthouse would recruit residents of this town for their hairbrainedness. Nina has always been making plans, she feels she has to. Sam is going to be growing up, going to middle school, high school. Yeah he’s only, what ten right now and eighteen seems a lifetime away, but how long is a lifetime in watching your child grow up? The snap of a finger, the blink of an eye, the rise and fall of the sunlight? I mean, for one person not to plan their life around that is fairly irresponsible in my opinion. And I don’t think Jake ever got that. Nina has to think twice on every decision. Once for Sam and once for her. She just can’t jet off to Vail or Hawaii without thinking about Sam, taking him out of school. Everything is different when a child is involved. And I doubt Jake ever took that into consideration when he took on this family and made it his own.

Why can’t he just go away and live at Carbondale? Why???

Hannah/Amy

Yeah I know Ephram asked Hannah not to say anything. But how can Hannah not tell her best friend that the guy of her dreams is in love with her? Yeah Amy has gone through so many things with so many guys that her heart is just overflowing with so many feelings. And all she sees is the hurt of Ephram leaving for Europe without so much as a goodbye. And having to cry about Ephram and get on with her life and not know if one day Ephram will just pop back up and stay in Everwood or just leave again. Who’s to tell what Ephram will do. That boy is so unpredictable, he gives me a headache. And for Amy not to know why he really came back? That’s like having Amy run around being a fool. Having getting over Ephram even though all she wants to do is be with Ephram and all he wants is to be with her. So why can’t these two crazy kids make this thing work. Hearts are always on fire. But do they light up the heart or just burn the edges and make the owner feel worse? And yay, I’m glad Hannah told Amy about the shower sharing. It was just a moment where they can be girls again. Not talking about broken hearts or the weight of the world. They can be fun and girly and Hannah can be the girl in love with Brighton Abbott. How much more adorable can ya get.

Delia/Andy

HOLY SHISTA! When did that girl get so bossy? I mean Ephram had some leeway because Andy was never there and had no parenting experience. But Delia? What happened to this sweet little angel that just wanted her dad and brother to get along. I mean fighting with Andy about cell phones and who she should be friends with. That’s just really low. I mean in school Ephram didn’t have any friends. And the ones he did have were so normal, they could’ve been an ABC special. Delia is sort of doing that experimental thing of what friends to have. Obviously Brittany isn’t a bad girl, she’s just very particular about who she puts in her ‘circle’ and she wants the popular girls in there. And I do love Delia’s not wanting to be popular by the end of the episode. And when did Andy get into reading emails. If Julia was able to, she’d pull him out of that room and lock the door. I was surprised with Andy, truly surprised. But I do think Ephram and Delia share the same ideas with popularity. Remember when Ephram was thrown into the popularity world because Colin wanted him in that circle. Suddenly everyone wanted to be friends with him, invite him to the parties and want to go on a date with him. That was his ‘in’ with popularity. SO they’ve had the same experience there. They live to tell about it lol
I gotta say this. For playing the Julia card, I wanna slap Delia. Even Ephram had a little play with the Julia card, but Andy reminded Ephram of his place in that house. Delia went too far. And to say that Julia hated him and the reasons she stopped doing things because Andy never came home for dinner? That’s just taking things way too far. I don’t think Delia ever really knew or still doesn’t know how much Andy loves Julia. He’ll never stop loving her. Everything in his life revolves around Julia. Even in her death, his life is still in consideration of Julia. I just hate the way Delia put Julia in that argument. If she understood the way Andy feels when Julia’s memory is put in distain, no one would ever do.

I’m glad Andy is writing a letter to Julia. I wonder what it said…hmm…

Ephram/Kyle…Andy

I think Ephram teaching Kyle has given him a sense of belonging again. It’s not that Ephram didn’t feel he had a place with Andy and Delia. But it’s more of this wanting to really help someone. And with Kyle…Kyle was so much like Ephram…they cloned Ephram’s character and made him a bit younger and changed a couple of things. But Kyle is the same jackass that Ephram was. But the difference is Kyle ran away from everything. That girl asking him out for the dance, any idea of hanging out. The idea of a public, no one’s gonna notice you football game even freaked Kyle out. I can understand the idea of girls getting him acting weird, but he’s so into playing piano and being by himself that he’s literally afraid to be around people.

I just loved Ephram teaching. He’s so good at it. I kind of wanted to see Ephram with some of his other students. Teaching them. But I feel we got enough of a storyline with Kyle because of what Kyle went through. His change in his music, how he presented it to the world, how he approached it. And how he bonded with Ephram. In the beginning he didn’t want to hang out with Ephram or do anything but piano because he didn’t know anything else. He stayed at his piano all the time when he wasn’t bored at school or sleeping. And it was such a new world with Ephram showing Kyle what was out there.

And Andy seeing Ephram teaching Kyle, just for those few minutes or however long it was. Such a wonderful experience. I’m sure Andy taught a lot of surgeons a thing or two in his time in New York and remembers that. And to see Ephram doing the same thing with a different craft. Something surely to be treasured J

Seeing Ephram go back to Everwood High was quite something. He struggled through high school with just fitting in when he first got there and then with everything that happened between. I’m really kind of hating the hair and the hat. It’s not the hair so much as it is the hat. Because Ephram doesn’t wear hats. And if he does, it’s a beanie because it’s extremely cold. Then he looks as though there’s a buzz cut under there. Ah, one could hope. But yeah. He looks like a daily planet reporter in that get up. Anyway, it was nice to see Ephram look around and remember some good times. That doesn’t happen too often. I think Ephram’s idea…story arc of this whole Kyle thing is because I really believe that Ephram wanted someone there when he was going through the pain of Julia’s death, moving to a new place and having his father around all the time. He had no one to talk to. He went through all the pain by himself. He couldn’t bring himself to get close to Andy and tell him what was going on. And even if they were on better terms, Andy was still coming to grips with what happened himself. We all remember Andy and Julia’s “conversations” in Everwood. That was Andy dealing, Ephram deals in silence and through music. So I think that’s what really had drawn Ephram to Kyle. Kyle was obviously going through a lot, and as bad as Kyle feels, Ephram has felt worse and Ephram knows that even though Kyle is rejecting Ephram’s every chance to make things better, Ephram knows that in the end, all of this is helping. Kyle will open up, he will be okay. So that’s why I think Ephram was the way he was…the outsider in Everwood. He could relate to Kyle and help him out. Kyle in away didn’t have a music teacher in Ephram, he more had a friend. With Kyle’s attitude in the beginning, most teachers would’ve given up on him, would’ve said ‘whatever’ to Kyle’s attitude, especially with the whole non-payment thing. I’m just glad Ephram saw something worth saving.

Question: (might be an obvious answer)

Do you think Kyle thinks his father never came around, never called or even tried to visit was because he was gay. Like Kyle’s father saw something there that Kyle hadn’t quite discovered?


Andy/Irv

For Andy to be upset about Irv’s portrayal of him in the book, it’s a given. He was written as a lost man with no direction in life. And Andy had a right to take it personally. He never realized that Irv had any idea what was going in his life. Or that he was being watched and observed just in his everyday life. But I’m glad he took Irv’s words into consideration. Andy was never complete without Julia. She was his other half and always will be. She’s the first woman he’s ever loved and always will be. She’s the mother of his son and daughter. She’s the one who got him through the hard days of medical school. Yeah he ignored her pretty much the entire time they were married. But she was there. He was her man and she was his woman. And nothing will ever change that. And when he lost that, he was lost and broken. A move to Everwood, Julia’s favorite memory wouldn’t change that. But staying in New York, repeating the same pattern with one less person to pick up the pieces would’ve been the worst.

And Andy’s feelings for Nina and her moving in with Jake and creating that life just put Andy into a deeper depression. And Andy doesn’t know how to get out of depression. He just lives his life and everything works itself out. So for Irv to see that as a secondary person means there’s something deeper there that is so hurtful and so emotional that Andy isn’t ready to admit himself. I’m just glad Irv stuck to his guns and wrote it. It could’ve been tricky. Irv had to have known Andy would know the character was about him and read into the material and know that it’s him. But Irv had to portray it the way it happened. I’m glad he did. If he didn’t, where would Andy be and how would he know that everyone sees him as the sad doctor who moved to Everwood to get away from the big city.

I wanna know. Did anyone before this episode know Irv married? Party of one…I didn’t!

Amy/Laurie (professor)

But I don’t think it’s so much that Laurie was someone Amy could confide in. I think Amy just wanted to know more about the world. And Laurie had more answers that Amy couldn’t dream about. And Laurie was older, she was more experienced about the world when it came to relationships. Amy didn’t feel comfortable talking to Rose about everything. And she wasn’t on even levels with Hannah and talking To Ephram about it wouldn’t be a good idea. So she had Laurie. And I’m glad she did. But Laurie has the generic answers. How close of a friendship can a professor and student have? They were more like friends than teacher/student. And isn’t that wrong. Like favoritism. Isn’t Amy her student. But whatever. I just miss the Hannah/Amy dynamic because Hannah knows Amy. Yeah she hasn’t been there all her life, but they talk about everything like she has. Hannah knows Amy, she knows where her heart and her mind is. With Laurie, Amy sometimes doesn’t know what to say, thinking that it might have some hurt feelings on the side. But with Hannah, everything is on the table. And I miss that. I miss the honest Amy Abbott. I really do. With her confiding in Laurie, I just don’t see that honest Amy

And where has Amy been this season. The girl has like disappeared and disconnected herself from Bright, Ephram and Hannah and went all collegiate.

Ephram/Amy

I’m glad Ephram went to Amy and they scheduled something. Even if there weren’t feelings there. Sex out of the blue is something to talk about. And with their history, there’s no time like the present. Their feelings are always on the table. They may not talk about them or even want to know they’re there. But their actions say it all. Kyle coming out and Ephram calls Amy. And Amy would always call Ephram. And no matter what, they’re always there with the best advice. They know each other. They’re friendship is like lovers on hiatus in my opinion. They’re friends just not sleeping together friends, which is really where they started when Ephram moved to Everwood, just the sleeping together part came later.

I like that they had dinner. But how long is Ephram supposed to wait around for Amy to be ready for that chance? She basically told Ephram that he is her one. He is her soul mate and he’s supposed to wait around. No one wonder they’re not together. They can’t seem to get it right what a soul mate means. They both know they are each other’s ‘it’, each other’s one. And yet they still are not together. I guess the heart healing process is bigger than being happy sometimes.

Andy/Harold

I didn’t think Andy would ever tell anyone outside of Nina (does she even know?) about Julia’s affair. But I don’t think anyone, including Ephram knows that Andy met the man, or knew who it was. How hard that must have been. To put a face on the person who might have helped destroy their marriage. Helped, yes, Andy helped tether the union in some ways. To go through that grief. And they were on the PTA at Ephram’s school? That means that guy has a child that went to school with Ephram. That’s just creepy. And for Andy to confide in Harold, just out with it without hesitation or questioning if Harold should hear it. They sure have come a far way. I like that he can trust Harold with these things. To know Harold will give him advice and keep the secret with him.

And the affair went on four months before Julia died. I wonder how long it went on period. If Andy was really afraid that at any moment Julia would leave him for the other man, it must have been going on for a long time. I just hate Andy had to go through that. No one deserves to go through that, no matter how much of a workaholic they were. Sad to think about. How distant and cold their bedroom was. Killer New York apartment though, remember Ephram’s flashback to playing a certain piece during a countless fight between his parents.

Whatever happened to that woman who blabbed the town’s business. You know the one Andy told he had a free practice and he knew by telling her, he’s told the town? Anyway…

Hannah/Nina

I’m glad they can talk. But I’m really disturbed I guess that Nina is just now finding out that she’s always coming into rescue someone? I guess with being married to Carl and being so powerless in that relationship and so naïve. Nina feels that she wants to save everyone from that pain. She wants to rescue everyone from some kind of pain. For Jake, it’s addiction. But it doesn’t have to be t hat way. In my opinion, Nina’s the one who needs saving
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:23 PM
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And I'm glad someone sees hat parts of Season 4 were kind of mellow...just dragging along.
Yes, I think the first half is a little slow, and then it really picks up the second half. Starting from this episode to the end, to me, is a steak of incredible episode after incredible episode.

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I do find it rather coincidental that both Ephram and Amy call their respective confidants at the same exact time with the quintessential same problem.
Yes, definitely only on TV!

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But how many times is that lady gonna run her little legs over to Andy Brown’s house to get his opinion on things when she has a boyfriend she should be talking to. Is it that she’s so in love with Andy that she wants him to know every aspect of her life and all of his input too. Or is it the fear of opening up to someone else about her fears means she’ll lose them. Nina automatically opened up to Andy.
That's true. She really should be going to Jake. As for why, I think it's just that she wants any excuse to see Andy.

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Why can’t he just go away and live at Carbondale? Why???
I think Andy should have driven him there.

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And yay, I’m glad Hannah told Amy about the shower sharing. It was just a moment where they can be girls again. Not talking about broken hearts or the weight of the world. They can be fun and girly and Hannah can be the girl in love with Brighton Abbott. How much more adorable can ya get.
Exactly. Always liked that little moment. It's just what friends do, natural and playful. It reminds me of the scene where Amy says that she wants to punch Hannah, and Hannah goes, "I know. That's because you looooove me".

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Do you think Kyle thinks his father never came around, never called or even tried to visit was because he was gay. Like Kyle’s father saw something there that Kyle hadn’t quite discovered?


Hmm. That's a really good question. I never thought about that! Kyle does seem to blame himself and despite his snarky exterior, he's extremely self-conscious. Does that have to do with him being gay? Huh. No idea.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this one? Really interesting thought.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:18 PM
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Why can’t he just go away and live at Carbondale? Why???
Because he doesn't like Carbon. Nobody does.

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Hmm. That's a really good question. I never thought about that! Kyle does seem to blame himself and despite his snarky exterior, he's extremely self-conscious. Does that have to do with him being gay? Huh. No idea.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this one? Really interesting thought.

I think that Kyle's snarky personality has to do with the fact that he is an unhappy kid. Being gay is one of the things that makes him unhappy. He doesn't want to be gay. He thinks it's horrible and would make people hate him. Once Ephram set him straight and he accepted who he was...he was on his way to being a happier person.

No, I don't believe that the reason that kyle's dad did not show up is because his son is gay. I think that Kyle's dad didn't show up because he is Scum. Just a rotten dad.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:37 PM
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I believe it was good for Ephram to see a different side of the single parent relationship. Because Andy was forced into the single parent situation, even though Julia had pretty much been doing the single parent thing for years with an absentee husband. But with Kyle's father, he chose. He chose no contact. He chose not to know his son, not to care about birthdays or anything. I think in Season 1, Ephram just felt so alone. And with Kyle's situation, Ephram can see that there are other kids out there who have a gift but don't really have the ideals to do it. I believe with Kyle, it gave Ephram an insight on what his passion really is. Not just playing music to take him to a different place, but to help someone else get to that different place and know there is a better place then where they are right now
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:53 AM
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That's a good point about Ephram being able to see a different side of single parenthood. I think for a long time, he probably thought Andy was the worst father in the world. And Andy sure acted like it. But Kyle's father, choosing to leave, choosing not to be there for Kyle, that's a whole other level. Andy missed a lot of Ephram's life, but at least Ephram knew where he was!
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:48 PM
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And it wasn't like Andy was never home because he was out drinking or doing foolish things. He was a surgeon, he saved lives on a daily basis. He put so much passion into his work that he forgot to have passion at home.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:59 PM
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And it wasn't like Andy was never home because he was out drinking or doing foolish things. He was a surgeon, he saved lives on a daily basis. He put so much passion into his work that he forgot to have passion at home.
Exactly. There were a lot worse fathers in the world than Andy Brown. That doesn't excuse how he ignored his family or say that Ephram should have forgiven him right away, but I think in hindsight, like with Kyle's dad as you mentioned, time and Andy's efforts in Everwood, I think Ephram came to view Andy's behaviour raising Ephram in at least a somewhat better light.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:29 PM
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Kyle is pretty funny. I was glad to see him back on the show. His comment about the ding dongs and then the “who is Irv” was hilarious. Ephram encouraging him to stick with school was really sweet. But, Ephram in that hat with the long hair SICK. Cut your hair bro!

Nina and Jake are so annoying. I wanted to scream at Nina when she was asking Andy if she should take him back. Like, NO! Just break up with him! The campfire conversation made me happy. Then Hannah had to go and freaking ruin it. Good God girl what are you thinking.

Amy talking to Hannah about Ephram was really adorable. You can just tell how much she still loves him. I also liked seeing her jealousy over the other girl calling him cute. Amy suddenly wanting her "Europe" just doesn't make sense to me. She can still grow and develop while dating Ephram??? I do like that Amy said Ephram was her person and that Ephram said he would wait for her (though we know that doesnt happen...)

I loved the discussion between Amy and her professor about Women in politics and feminism. YAS.

Delia is such a little brat. The way she was speaking to Andy was so horrible. He shouldn’t have read her emails but she needed to be punished for the email and also for the way she was speaking to him.

HAROLD AND ANDY SCENE YAY. I love them SO EFFING MUCH. I missed their friendship. I love that Andy opened up about Julia’s affair. Definitely curious to know what Andy is writing to Julia...
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:57 AM
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Kyle is pretty funny. I was glad to see him back on the show. His comment about the ding dongs and then the “who is Irv” was hilarious. Ephram encouraging him to stick with school was really sweet. But, Ephram in that hat with the long hair SICK. Cut your hair bro!
Wasn't it horrible?!? I was screaming for Ephram to cut his hair the whole season and that hat!!! What was he thinking? :



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Amy talking to Hannah about Ephram was really adorable. You can just tell how much she still loves him. I also liked seeing her jealousy over the other girl calling him cute. Amy suddenly wanting her "Europe" just doesn't make sense to me. She can still grow and develop while dating Ephram??? I do like that Amy said Ephram was her person and that Ephram said he would wait for her (though we know that doesnt happen...)
This was frustrating for me because Hannah was giving Amy such good advice about Ephram and Amy was being really stubborn about it. It really made me sad at the time.

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Delia is such a little brat. The way she was speaking to Andy was so horrible. He shouldn’t have read her emails but she needed to be punished for the email and also for the way she was speaking to him.
Delia became less and less adorable and lovable as the series went on.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:11 PM
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Kyle is pretty funny. I was glad to see him back on the show. His comment about the ding dongs and then the “who is Irv” was hilarious. Ephram encouraging him to stick with school was really sweet. But, Ephram in that hat with the long hair SICK. Cut your hair bro!
The hair is pretty bad.

I really ended up liking Kyle.

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Nina and Jake are so annoying. I wanted to scream at Nina when she was asking Andy if she should take him back. Like, NO! Just break up with him! The campfire conversation made me happy. Then Hannah had to go and freaking ruin it. Good God girl what are you thinking.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nina and Jake should have ended long ago.

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Amy talking to Hannah about Ephram was really adorable. You can just tell how much she still loves him. I also liked seeing her jealousy over the other girl calling him cute. Amy suddenly wanting her "Europe" just doesn't make sense to me. She can still grow and develop while dating Ephram??? I do like that Amy said Ephram was her person and that Ephram said he would wait for her (though we know that doesnt happen...)
Totally agree. I think Amy was making excuses because overall she still felt like she couldn't totally trust that she wouldn't get hurt again. She works it out as we know though.

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I loved the discussion between Amy and her professor about Women in politics and feminism. YAS.
Amy's political views are the best. I also know they are Emily's views too which makes the scenes so much more awesome too.

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Delia is such a little brat. The way she was speaking to Andy was so horrible. He shouldn’t have read her emails but she needed to be punished for the email and also for the way she was speaking to him.
Delia and Andy are one reason why I wish we would have received a season 5. I think Andy/Delia season 5 would have been season 1 Andy/Ephram in a way with Delia as a teenager and maybe even bringing back her pain over losing her mother. There was so much material to go with!

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HAROLD AND ANDY SCENE YAY. I love them SO EFFING MUCH. I missed their friendship. I love that Andy opened up about Julia’s affair. Definitely curious to know what Andy is writing to Julia...
I love their friendship too! It was always such a highlight of the series.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:39 AM
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Yeah it sucks that we didnt get to see the underlying cause for Delia's actions and her dealing with her moms death etc. It was kinda skimmed over.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:52 PM
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Definitely. I think another season or two would have tackled just that but it wasn't meant to be.
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