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Old 02-11-2017, 10:20 AM
  #31
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Some added thoughts of mine regarding the episode...

I love the "talking to" Harold gave Andy after implant girl came to his office. I love that he reminded Andy what kind of doctor he is and that he should never give in.
I love that Andy...in turn...gave Ephram the same advice...reminding him that neither one of them is ordinary. Andy is not an ordinary doctor and Ephram is not an ordinary kid.
I love that Andy grew some balls and told off implant girl and her mom.

I love Ephram's sarcastic humor. Teacher: "Ephram, you're 2 weeks late." Ephram: Traffic.

I love Delia's adorableness. Delia: "Are you punishing him?" "I'm glad I'm not a genius. I can sleep until noon."

I can't get over how much Harold looks like and sounds like Jimmy Stewart...especially when he said, "Jimmy Stewart".


I love when Ephram sits behind Amy in any class!
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post)
Some added thoughts of mine regarding the episode...

I love the "talking to" Harold gave Andy after implant girl came to his office. I love that he reminded Andy what kind of doctor he is and that he should never give in.
I loved that scene as well .

Quote:
I love that Andy...in turn...gave Ephram the same advice...reminding him that neither one of them is ordinary. Andy is not an ordinary doctor and Ephram is not an ordinary kid.
I love that Andy grew some balls and told off implant girl and her mom.
I loved that too .

Quote:
I love Ephram's sarcastic humor. Teacher: "Ephram, you're 2 weeks late." Ephram: Traffic.
It was funny .

Quote:
I love Delia's adorableness. Delia: "Are you punishing him?" "I'm glad I'm not a genius. I can sleep until noon."
Lucky girl .
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:46 PM
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I just fell asleep sitting up for one hour after getting home from the casino. I am going to watch later on tonight or bright and early tomorrow morning while posting thoughts and adding to the discussion.

Glad our project of creating a thread for every episode (the ones that permanently were lost due to the crash) has gotten started!
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Old 02-11-2017, 01:53 PM
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I just watched. I set up the episode and was planning on watching later but somehow just pressed play and here we go! Everwood really is that magical.

I love the scene between Ephram and Amy in the gym. We are aware that even if these two have to delay their inevitable romantic relationship, they are still connected and friends. It made me think of how Dawson/Joey were systematically destroyed as the seasons moved along. Not Ephram/Amy on Everwood. They were nursed and protected throughout the entire series. I truly believe Berlanti went out of his way to make sure Ephram/Amy never turned into Dawson/Joey. He saw what happened on Dawson's Creek. He made sure his own show and main pairing would never be written like that. He would nurse Ephram/Amy along, with them getting stronger as the series evolved. It is such a beautiful thing watching the entire process unfold.

Academics and well-being are the two main themes of the episode. Andy reacts poorly to Ephram's plans. Amy blows off of a meeting with a representative from Princeton. Bright is chucked from the football team. Irv discussed the extraordinary expectations one has... the irony is the extraordinary expectations is precisely what's extraordinary.

Harold and Rose are devastated when they find out why Amy blew off the meeting and Bright couldn't remain on the football team. Amy is depressed. As a psychologist, when I revisit Amy's depression it just never fails that I develop frustration. So many people truly do not understand what depression is. People who suffer from various forms of depression have to deal with others thinking they can snap out of it or they can control how they feel. Even family and friends can think this! As Amy lays in bed watching television and the blowup at the dinner table... Amy flatly responds to her parents' questions while she's not there. How does Harold not notice or chooses to ignore his daughter? How does he not see it?!?!?!?!?!

Bright had so much class not using Colin's death as a way to get back on the football team. He is awesome. I understand why Harold initially wanted him to use it but Bright would never play the Colin card. I am just not a huge fan of Harold's actions and words to Bright when they exchange powerful words.

The Abbott's are all in a transition period at this time: Amy needs to get through her depression, Bright needs to re-prioritize; Harold and Rose need to reassess their roles as parents and even their marriage as a whole. It's interesting because Season 1 depicted an ideal family mostly but season 2, we see a different side of the family.

The rep details each of Ephram's flaws. Ephram is deflated and dejected. Speaking of depression or handling past baggage... Ephram might be in a much better place with Andy at this time and he's gotten over the initial sting of his mother's death... but both of those issues are still lingering inside his mind and heart. When you have such heaviness weighing you down, you will react much more anxiously as a result. I think we are seeing this with Ephram here. I did think it was beautiful when Andy goes to Ephram's class, takes him out, and delivers such beautiful words.

Piano, to Ephram, symbolized two different things in seasons 1 and 2:

1. Season 1, it represented loss. He connected his mother with piano in season 1 and as a result, it was difficult for him to freely play.

2. Season 2, piano represents a gift to Ephram... a gift Andy knows he has and wants him to go with.

Last Thoughts:

- I smiled widely when Andy told Veronica Mars and her mom to shove it.

- I loved the scene when Ephram practices while Delia watches and says, "I'm glad I'm not a genius."

- One of Andy's greatest lines of the series is spoken in this episode: Ephram freaks out at him before dinner and says, "I'm sure you love this." Andy says, "I was making soup!" Treat Williams has magnificent comedic timing.

Last edited by Auror; 02-11-2017 at 02:04 PM
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:57 PM
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I love the scene between Ephram and Amy in the gym. We are aware that even if these two have to delay their inevitable romantic relationship, they are still connected and friends
.

THey are definitely connected...no matter what and Everwood chose them (thankfully) as the end couple.
Quote:

Harold and Rose are devastated when they find out why Amy blew off the meeting and Bright couldn't remain on the football team. Amy is depressed. As a psychologist, when I revisit Amy's depression it just never fails that I develop frustration. So many people truly do not understand what depression is. People who suffer from various forms of depression have to deal with others thinking they can snap out of it or they can control how they feel. Even family and friends can think this! As Amy lays in bed watching television and the blowup at the dinner table... Amy flatly responds to her parents' questions while she's not there. How does Harold not notice or chooses to ignore his daughter? How does he not see it?!?!?!?!?!
I feel the exact same way! Rose got it...but Harold did not! When a child or anyone acts like this...it frightening and a call for help! (you could tell Amy was desperate for help when she kind of jumped at the chance to talk to a someone when Rose suggested.
The fact that Harold pretty much ignored the whole situation is absolutely mind boggling!! As physician...doesn't he realize how dangerous Amy's behavior is? What could happen to her...what she might do to herself! I am shocked that Rose wasn't having more of a fit here in regards to Harold's indifference. Mind boggling!

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Piano, to Ephram, symbolized two different things in seasons 1 and 2:

1. Season 1, it represented loss. He connected his mother with piano in season 1 and as a result, it was difficult for him to freely play.

2. Season 2, piano represents a gift to Ephram... a gift Andy knows he has and wants him to go with.
Beautifully put...so true. Season 2 is the beginning of Ephram's genius to finally emerge. Too bad Michael...the new piano teacher will be part of this transition. lol


-
Quote:
One of Andy's greatest lines of the series is spoken in this episode: Ephram freaks out at him before dinner and says, "I'm sure you love this." Andy says, "I was making soup!" Treat Williams has magnificent comedic timing.
Poor Andy can't get a break! All he is trying to do is make soup for his family and Ephram gives him grief. Ephram often expects his dad to understand every situation...background and all. Andy is not that mighty!
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:34 PM
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I wish I had the season 2 dvds but I don't. I want to buy them but I just cant rationalize spending that money when I can watch elsewhere lol.

LOL @ Veronica Mars on the show. . What an idiot mom letting her 17 year old daughter get implants! WTF.

I liked that we got to learn more about Bright and I thought it was honorable that he didn't want to use Colin as an excuse for failing his class.

Harold telling Bright he wasn't smart enough was a really low blow and moment for Harold. That was so cruel. I understood his frustrations and wanting to help Bright get into college, but that was not the way to go about it. Maybe saying didn't apply himself early enough would have been a bit more tactful. Maybe Bright was right though, his father should have been pushing him to get better grades, not to be a better football player. But the last moment where he helped him study was cute.

The stupid guy at Juliard telling Ephram he wouldn't ever be able to let go of old habits was so wrong. Just because he didn't read his sheet music? Ugh I hate people like that that crush other's dreams.

Andy pulling Ephram out of class was the cutest thing. Him encouraging Ephram to play was so sweet.

So far this season is strong but hey, its only 2 episodes lol.

I understand that Amy is upset over Colin but her depression is getting frustrating to watch. But I guess its realistic.
Nice thoughts.

Sometimes on Amazon I find the Everwood DVDs really cheap. But you're so right about being able to watch elsewhere so it's tempting to just go there. Especially since you get the real music too.

Bright is really awesome in this episode. The old Bright would have instantly taken the easy way out. Bright couldn't go there when it had to do with Colin. Colin's death ironically was what made Bright grow up. He started evolving and growing after Colin's death and we are already seeing it this early on.

Amy's depression is really realistic. It's just too bad no one around her sees this at the moment. Ephram did but he couldn't really help. Bright does but he's not really able to help either. It should have started with her own father but no dice. Harold was horrible. Harold in this episode was a terrible father overall to both Bright and Amy.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:38 PM
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First I have to say that I liked seeing Christine Bell as the airhead cheerleader. So different from Veronica Mars . She played the role quite great.

Emily plays Amy's depression really awesome. I do understand why it's frustrating for some to watch, but I find it normal. I think that it was good story. I actually do like Rose's approach with Amy better than Harold's. I don't think that Rose wanted to punish Amy. She wanted to make her show emotion. No matter what. She wanted to make her fight back, shout and yell. And I do think that Amy needed this. I loved the fact that Rose didn't make Amy talk to her. She wanted her to talk to someone, someone that Amy chooses, someone that could help her.

Man I missed Laynie. I loved seeing her in this episode.

Harold/Bright moment was heartbreaking to watch. It just reinforced how Amy was the favored child. Story like that hits home a bit for me because I do know parents that favor one child in the expense of the other. So that definitely sucked for Bright. I love the fact that he didn't want to use Colin's death to his advantage. It's scenes like this that tell me that Bright and Colin were close friends.

Unlike most people I guess I didn't find this Julliard guy to be that cruel with Ephram. He was actually bluntly honest. Julliard is not just some school. It is the school when it comes to that. You really have to be unique to get there. Ephram has the talent, but this is never enough. It's also about hard work. This means spending hours perfecting your talent. No matter if it's singing, playing instrument, studying math, playing sport. It's always like that. You don't become genius just by having talent and leaving it at that. You become genius by doing hard work using your talent.

And it's not like Ephram did while he was in Everwood. It also made me ask something else however. Ephram loved music, but did he want it to be the way this guy described it? Did Ephram actually wanted this? Did he want to spend so many hours perfecting on his music to make it his craft. Or he wanted to use music as his escape from problems? I always thought the latter to be honest. That's why I wasn't that pissed that he didn't get into Julliard. Ephram was not about spending all of his free time on playing piano. Piano for him was something personal, something sacred and definitely not a chore.

On funny side I loved Bright admitting that he was shallow . Chris played that scene so well.

Harold and Andy as always were funny . It made me think that this episode had no Edna, Irv and Nina and really not too much Delia.
More nice thoughts.

We are on the same page regarding Amy's depression as we both know, haha.

The irony that Amy is the favored child is not only a fact, but Harold outwardly acts like he's favoring Amy, but treated her like complete sht throughout most of season 2. That's the big irony. I think Amy was favored mostly because Harold had big plans for her. When Colin died and Amy suffered from depression, it's like Harold couldn't relate to "this Amy" so he acted like she wasn't there, he was in denial. It's really sad.

I agree with you about the feedback Ephram received. I think it was realistic. I also think it was just as realistic for Ephram to react so emotionally over it. He still has a lot on his plate like I mentioned in my write up and I think that affected him too.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post)
Some added thoughts of mine regarding the episode...

I love the "talking to" Harold gave Andy after implant girl came to his office. I love that he reminded Andy what kind of doctor he is and that he should never give in.
I love that Andy...in turn...gave Ephram the same advice...reminding him that neither one of them is ordinary. Andy is not an ordinary doctor and Ephram is not an ordinary kid.
I love that Andy grew some balls and told off implant girl and her mom.

I love Ephram's sarcastic humor. Teacher: "Ephram, you're 2 weeks late." Ephram: Traffic.

I love Delia's adorableness. Delia: "Are you punishing him?" "I'm glad I'm not a genius. I can sleep until noon."

I can't get over how much Harold looks like and sounds like Jimmy Stewart...especially when he said, "Jimmy Stewart".


I love when Ephram sits behind Amy in any class!
... and more nice thoughts, lol.

Harold might have been a sucky father in this episode but you're so right about the good advice he gave Andy. That really helped Andy. Yes, it's so cool how the advice then connected to Ephram. I love how Berlanti flawlessly connects the dots in so many ways in the episodes. It's awesomely unique. Everything just flows and storylines can flow and come together so nicely.

Ephram's sarcasm is golden.

Ephram/Amy are all about the sweet moments... like you mentioned... simply sitting behind her in class... so beautiful.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:46 PM
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.I feel the exact same way! Rose got it...but Harold did not! When a child or anyone acts like this...it frightening and a call for help! (you could tell Amy was desperate for help when she kind of jumped at the chance to talk to a someone when Rose suggested.
The fact that Harold pretty much ignored the whole situation is absolutely mind boggling!! As physician...doesn't he realize how dangerous Amy's behavior is? What could happen to her...what she might do to herself! I am shocked that Rose wasn't having more of a fit here in regards to Harold's indifference. Mind boggling!
I know it. I wanted Rose to say more. She really should have persisted. Harold, he's just such a moron here. I do think it's possible he just doesn't want to accept Amy's this bad off. I can't think of any other reason as to why he'd turn his back on her because that's essentially what he initially does. It's really sad. Rose does see it. Too bad Rose didn't go to Andy about it immediately.

Quote:

Poor Andy can't get a break! All he is trying to do is make soup for his family and Ephram gives him grief. Ephram often expects his dad to understand every situation...background and all. Andy is not that mighty!
It causes some great humor. Treat and Greg are so good together during these moments. I do think Ephram is a little too critical but in a way, some of it is bantering/teasing depending on the moment.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:42 PM
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I’m a little rusty at writing episode commentaries, so please be kind.

It was so wonderful to watch this incredibly well acted and well written show again after all this time. Every single second of every single scene spoke to my heart, as I got to see the characters I loved so much interacting again.

This episode really showcased the characters so well, and I especially liked Andy and Harold’s interaction as you could see the mutual caring and respect that they had for each other underneath the bantering insults that had become their trademark. Ultimately, they gave each other good advice as Andy was still feeling guilty about Colin’s death and he was afraid to face the judgmental citizens of Everwood, and Harold realized that he had made a major mistake with his son.

I loved the scene in the gym between Ephram and Amy as they talked about their fathers’ interest in their academic future, but at this point, Amy was still too wrapped up in her grief and depression to interact much with anyone, and this became the overarching theme of not only this episode but in future episodes in Season Two. It was so sad seeing Amy lose interest in everything, and it was equally sad that Harold refused to see the signs that his daughter was suffering from severe depression due to Colin’s death, and he even ignored Rose, who did see those signs. I thought that this show really depicted grief and depression very well, and Emily Van Camp did an incredible job in showing how lost and disengaged Amy had become.

The disparity between how Harold treated Amy versus how Harold treated Bright was really illustrated in this episode because it was so obvious that Amy was Harold’s favorite because she was so much like him, and she had many of the same interests that he had, but he took little interest in anything that Bright was doing because he felt that all he had going for him was football. I thought that Bright was completely correct when he told Harold and Rose that everything was always about Amy when they confronted him about being kicked off the football team. I thought that Harold was unspeakably cruel when he told Bright that he wasn’t smart enough to get into college without football, and although he somewhat redeemed himself at the end of the episode, in some ways, there was simply a chasm between Harold and Bright that could never be bridged.

I liked seeing how there were more layers to Bright beyond the dumb jock stereotype in this episode as he refused to use Colin’s death as a ploy to try and get back on the football team despite his coach and even his father encouraging him to do so, and it showed he had integrity. I did laugh when he only noticed one of the cheerleaders because she was, as Amy put it, “stacked,” and I cracked up when Bright said “I can’t help it if I’m shallow. It’s how God made me!” One hallmark of this show was the warm, witty, and subtle humor that served as an undercurrent beneath all the drama, and this was really showcased in scenes like that and in the scenes between Andy and Harold and Andy and Ephram.

It was so different seeing Kristen Bell playing a shallow, vain and spoiled teenager who was more concerned about looking good than she was about her health, and I thought that her mother was equally vain and shallow for allowing her daughter to get breast implants at the age of 17. I thought that Stacey and her mother were so cruel and so wrong to make a cutting remark to Andy about how they were discounting his opinion due to Colin’s death, and I hated seeing Andy look so sad and hurt when they said that. I was really happy though that after talking to Harold, Andy stood up to both of them and made them listen and respect the medical advice that he was giving them. One key scene that illustrated how much respect Harold had for Andy was when he refused to give a second opinion to Stacey and her mother when they arrogantly discounted Andy’s diagnosis and advise.

I really seeing Laynie in this episode, but I could also see that her character was being marginalized and she left the show later in Season Two.

I liked Ephram and Andy’s scenes in this episode and it was amusing to see Andy’s well-intentioned but overbearing attempts to help Ephram get a plan together for college. I did think that Ephram was completely wrong to lash out at Andy due to his disappointment after the Julliard representative had critiqued his talent so harshly, and Ephram, as we saw throughout this series, could often direct some really cruel and nasty remarks toward his father, and in this case, nothing he said was true. I was happy that Andy saw through Ephram’s nasty meltdown and harsh words toward him and he realized that Ephram’s anger came from feeling that his future in music was being taken away from him, and he took charge and encouraged Ephram to forget about what that representative had said and practice, practice, practice, and I was glad that Ephram did just that.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode and it brought back so many reminders of how unique and wonderful Everwood was.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:24 AM
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More nice thoughts.

We are on the same page regarding Amy's depression as we both know, haha.
That part of the story is written great. The way Amy's depression is shown is for me perfect. And the way Emily plays it also. The way her parents react is something different though I'm guessing not completely unrealistic as there are a lot of people who don't really understand depression.

Quote:
The irony that Amy is the favored child is not only a fact, but Harold outwardly acts like he's favoring Amy, but treated her like complete sht throughout most of season 2. That's the big irony. I think Amy was favored mostly because Harold had big plans for her. When Colin died and Amy suffered from depression, it's like Harold couldn't relate to "this Amy" so he acted like she wasn't there, he was in denial. It's really sad.
Exactly! Harold favored Amy because he had big plans in general and she was able to fulfill them unlike Bright. When Amy got depressed she jeopardized his plans basically. But I also think that he didn't want to admit that Amy had problems. It was like pride issue for him.

Quote:
I agree with you about the feedback Ephram received. I think it was realistic. I also think it was just as realistic for Ephram to react so emotionally over it. He still has a lot on his plate like I mentioned in my write up and I think that affected him too.
Oh totally in Ephram's personality to react that way. I completely agree. I just didn't find the guy that cruel because he was honest. I also would have found it unrealistic for someone to get into Julliard without doing the hard work you know. It just wouldn't make sense.
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Old 02-12-2017, 05:12 AM
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I think that Harold didn't want to acknowledge or see how deep Amy's depression was because she had always been his "Golden Child" and he expected that she would just "snap out of it" eventually. Depression isn't something that you can just "snap out of" though, and this show, and Emily, really illustrated that perfectly in Season Two. Rose saw the situation much more clearly than Harold did in this episode, to the point where she confronted him about how serious the situation with Amy was, but he refused to acknowledge that Amy's depression and listlessness went way beyond simple grief over Colin's death.
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Old 02-12-2017, 05:14 AM
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Oh totally in Ephram's personality to react that way. I completely agree. I just didn't find the guy that cruel because he was honest. I also would have found it unrealistic for someone to get into Julliard without doing the hard work you know. It just wouldn't make sense.
Yes, this guy was honest and constructive, but he didn't offer Ephram any hope. He didn't teill him to work harder...but just to give it up and concentrate on his vocabulary.

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Old 02-12-2017, 05:22 AM
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I’m a little rusty at writing episode commentaries, so please be kind.
Love your commentaries, Jerry! Wish I could write as well!

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This episode really showcased the characters so well, and I especially liked Andy and Harold’s interaction as you could see the mutual caring and respect that they had for each other underneath the bantering insults that had become their trademark. Ultimately, they gave each other good advice as Andy was still feeling guilty about Colin’s death and he was afraid to face the judgmental citizens of Everwood, and Harold realized that he had made a major mistake with his son.
I believe that Harold and Andy...for all the bickering, sarcasm, somewhat jealousy..are soul mates. These two get each other and have real affection and caring for one another. Neither one would steer the other wrong.

Quote:
The disparity between how Harold treated Amy versus how Harold treated Bright was really illustrated in this episode because it was so obvious that Amy was Harold’s favorite because she was so much like him, and she had many of the same interests that he had, but he took little interest in anything that Bright was doing because he felt that all he had going for him was football. I thought that Bright was completely correct when he told Harold and Rose that everything was always about Amy when they confronted him about being kicked off the football team.
What was so hurtful lhere is that Harold made it soooooooooooooo obvious that his attention was more toward Amy. Nothing subtle about it! Poor Bright understood it and just accepted it.

Quote:
I liked seeing how there were more layers to Bright beyond the dumb jock stereotype in this episode as he refused to use Colin’s death as a ploy to try and get back on the football team despite his coach and even his father encouraging him to do so, and it showed he had integrity.
I admit that first season Bright was not my favorite and I really didn't care for him too much because of my love for Ephram. But...this Bright could teach even Ephram a thing or two about strength and integrity.

Quote:
I really seeing Laynie in this episode, but I could also see that her character was being marginalized and she left the show later in Season Two.
I hate what the show did to Laynie. It is like a breath of fresh air when she appears in a scene. What a waste of a character and potential plot lines.
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Old 02-12-2017, 05:27 AM
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I think that Harold didn't want to acknowledge or see how deep Amy's depression was because she had always been his "Golden Child" and he expected that she would just "snap out of it" eventually. Depression isn't something that you can just "snap out of" though, and this show, and Emily, really illustrated that perfectly in Season Two. Rose saw the situation much more clearly than Harold did in this episode, to the point where she confronted him about how serious the situation with Amy was, but he refused to acknowledge that Amy's depression and listlessness went way beyond simple grief over Colin's death.
Totally agree with this. It's like Harold could not accept that Amy would get depressed over that. It's like this was beneath her and she shouldn't have felt it. Sometimes it definitely looked like Harold thought this as weak and couldn't see his daughter being weak.
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