[jediwands]

Unhappy Holidays





Horrified to discover that Ephram and Madison are involved, Andy stops short of firing her, but Madison decides to quit, leaving the Browns to a very unhappy holiday, especially when Delia discovers another troubling relationship - between her father and Linda. Stressed by Thanksgiving with his cantankerous mother-in-law, Dr. Abbott reacts badly when Amy brings Tommy to Thanksgiving dinner. Finally pushed to the breaking point, Amy runs away from home.


IMDb Link

[Alexa]

Andy overhearing E/M together and listening to Ephram bad mouth him was so CRINGEY!

Andy reacted how he should have but him not firing Madison was a bit unrealistic imo. Had Madison been a guy and Ephram his daughter, I cant imagine he would let Madison anywhere near his kid. Ephram is being super selfish and annoying not understanding why Andy is so upset. And then going to Madisons and them both sneaking behind his back again? Really? And then Andy at the end saying he was going to let Ephram date Madison? WTF?! What kind of parent is that? He gives into Ephram too easy sometimes.

Amy inviting a boy she just met to family dinner is so annoying! I would tell him to leave if I were Amy's family... But Harold's questions were awful! He IMO was almost bullying a 17 year old kid about his family life. And what did Amy expect inviting him over? Didn't she know her family would react this way?

Harold needs to get a grip though, the way he is speaking to Amy when shes going through this depressive stage is just not helping things at all. i understand the concept of "tough love" but its obvious shes depressed and sad and lonely, not just acting out like a normal teenager! And I think he needs to speak to her with more care and patience.

I did like seeing Harold and Andy bond. And Rose telling off her mom was amazing!

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post) Andy reacted how he should have but him not firing Madison was a bit unrealistic imo. Had Madison been a guy and Ephram his daughter, I cant imagine he would let Madison anywhere near his kid.

I totally agree that there is a definite double standard when it comes to sons and daughters. I am somewhat guilty of this double standard myself.
When I first watched the series I didn't mind Ephram and Madison together...especially when I realized it wasn't the end game. But..in hindsight after seeing what devastation this relationship gave to the family...I am against these two.

And what did Amy expect inviting him over? Didn't she know her family would react this way?

You're right. Amy should have known better than to invite this guy.

Harold needs to get a grip though, the way he is speaking to Amy when shes going through this depressive stage is just not helping things at all. i understand the concept of "tough love" but its obvious shes depressed and sad and lonely, not just acting out like a normal teenager! And I think he needs to speak to her with more care and patience.

Tough love is definitely not the way to go in this case. Harold was reacting to Amy's depression as a parent and not as a doctor.

I did like seeing Harold and Andy bond. And Rose telling off her mom was amazing!

Andy/Harold were one of my other favorite couples! Wasn't Rose's mom an obnoxious creep?!?

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post) Andy overhearing E/M together and listening to Ephram bad mouth him was so CRINGEY! Andy reacted how he should have but him not firing Madison was a bit unrealistic imo. Had Madison been a guy and Ephram his daughter, I cant imagine he would let Madison anywhere near his kid. Ephram is being super selfish and annoying not understanding why Andy is so upset. And then going to Madisons and them both sneaking behind his back again? Really? And then Andy at the end saying he was going to let Ephram date Madison? WTF?! What kind of parent is that? He gives into Ephram too easy sometimes.

I love your thoughts so much. I couldn't agree more. Madison is such a loser allowing this sick romantic relationship to even transpire, and to go there knowing her very reason for being hired was to watch a young, impressionable girl. Not to seduce and get together with her 16-year-old brother. It seriously makes me sick. So she allowed that to even happen, but then to not listen to Andy who was against it is despicable. Andy caved because of Ephram, not because of lame Madison. Madison understood that Andy was against a relationship even if he caved. She had the power, she should have told Ephram no and called it off. She was the adult with a supposed brain. She should've done the right thing.

Ephram acted way more immature over this situation in season two compared to what he did throughout all of season one. I absolutely hated to see him essentially regress. Really sad. He reminded me of a little boy on the floor pounding his fists upset over not getting that candy bar. That is how he reacted to his father who was older and wiser when he practically begged him not to go ahead with this ridiculous relationship with Madison.

If Madison wasn't going to do the right thing, I think Andy should have dug his feet in even further and said absolutely not. But I think he was scared that all of the progress he made with Ephram in season one would fly out the window. I think Ephram knew this too and used it against him.

Amy inviting a boy she just met to family dinner is so annoying! I would tell him to leave if I were Amy's family... But Harold's questions were awful! He IMO was almost bullying a 17 year old kid about his family life. And what did Amy expect inviting him over? Didn't she know her family would react this way?

I have a feeling Amy knew what she was doing. Amy was soaking in such deep depression at this point she wanted a response. She certainly got it. LOL Harold definitely had some pretty horrible moments in season two.

Harold needs to get a grip though, the way he is speaking to Amy when shes going through this depressive stage is just not helping things at all. i understand the concept of "tough love" but its obvious shes depressed and sad and lonely, not just acting out like a normal teenager! And I think he needs to speak to her with more care and patience.

Yes, he is just so wrong on every level. That's why I think Amy inviting Tommy was to get a response from her father. It was a cat and mouse game played by father/daughter. However, the daughter was only 16 and drowning in situational depression. Harold was the adult, the father, and the medical doctor.

[Alexa]

Madison is such a loser allowing this sick romantic relationship to even transpire, and to go there knowing her very reason for being hired was to watch a young, impressionable girl.

Seriously! Madison SEEMED mature and smart and thats why she was hired to watch Delia. But the second that Andy caught Madison macking on his 16 year old son, she should have been fired. I mean, how can you trust the judgement of a 20 year old that wants to be in a relationship with a 16 old? Like you said, she shouldnt be allowed to continue nannying his younger daughter! I just dont get it, and it makes no sense to me.

I have to chalk it up to Andy just wanting to keep the peace with son. Which is really not good parenting. I know that Ephram doesnt bode well with harsh Andy, but so what? You dont have to be friends with your kids, you need to set ground rules. And he's letting Ephram walk all over him. Andy's APPROACH with Ephram in the past has been wrong. He needs to actually sit Ephram down and talk to him like a human. But perhaps if he did that Ephram would be more understanding and willing to listen.

And the saddest thing in it all is that Andy never even had a conversation with Madison and Ephram about sex. If he's gonna allow it to continue (or even if he's not) he should still speak to them about making sure Madison is on birth control and also that Ephram be safe if he plans to have sex. Maybe had he had that conversation with them the pregnancy wouldn't have happened.

She had the power, she should have told Ephram no and called it off. She was the adult with a supposed brain. She should've done the right thing.

Exactly! And especially knowing he'd never had a girlfriend before. Like, really Madison? You're gonna be his first? Just... gross! Like you said, she should have done the right thing. As if she couldn't find another guy! It's so irritating to watch play out this time around now that I am older myself and understand how wrong it is. She's just being selfish and wanting what she wants instead of actually thinking it through. In the grand scheme of life 2 years is not that long. Madison could have told him she wanted to remain friends, and maybe in 2 years when he was 18, if he still wanted it, they could try something.

I'm surprised that Ephram acted the way he did. I'm surprised he didnt understand WHY Andy was so upset and act more sheepish in the entire situation. He could have still gone to Madison and said he wanted to keep seeing her, I felt that would have been in character for a 16 year old, but to stand up to his father the way he did was really irritating. Come on Ephram, you know you are wrong. And who are you to demand that relationship? Like, take some seats child.

It was a cat and mouse game played by father/daughter. However, the daughter was only 16 and drowning in situational depression. Harold was the adult, the father, and the medical doctor.

I think you are right about Amy I think she was just trying to lash out and get a reaction. It's probably whys started dating Tommy to begin with, actually.

It's sad how Harold is acting. You would think he would be more mature and understanding over the situation but I will presume that Harold was just really upset about Amy's mental state and he was hoping that being hard on her would knock it out of her like maybe it had in the past.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post) Seriously! Madison SEEMED mature and smart and thats why she was hired to watch Delia. But the second that Andy caught Madison macking on his 16 year old son, she should have been fired. I mean, how can you trust the judgement of a 20 year old that wants to be in a relationship with a 16 old? Like you said, she shouldnt be allowed to continue nannying his younger daughter! I just dont get it, and it makes no sense to me. I have to chalk it up to Andy just wanting to keep the peace with son. Which is really not good parenting. I know that Ephram doesnt bode well with harsh Andy, but so what? You dont have to be friends with your kids, you need to set ground rules. And he's letting Ephram walk all over him. Andy's APPROACH with Ephram in the past has been wrong. He needs to actually sit Ephram down and talk to him like a human. But perhaps if he did that Ephram would be more understanding and willing to listen. And the saddest thing in it all is that Andy never even had a conversation with Madison and Ephram about sex. If he's gonna allow it to continue (or even if he's not) he should still speak to them about making sure Madison is on birth control and also that Ephram be safe if he plans to have sex. Maybe had he had that conversation with them the pregnancy wouldn't have happened. Exactly! And especially knowing he'd never had a girlfriend before. Like, really Madison? You're gonna be his first? Just... gross! Like you said, she should have done the right thing. As if she couldn't find another guy! It's so irritating to watch play out this time around now that I am older myself and understand how wrong it is. She's just being selfish and wanting what she wants instead of actually thinking it through. In the grand scheme of life 2 years is not that long. Madison could have told him she wanted to remain friends, and maybe in 2 years when he was 18, if he still wanted it, they could try something. I'm surprised that Ephram acted the way he did. I'm surprised he didnt understand WHY Andy was so upset and act more sheepish in the entire situation. He could have still gone to Madison and said he wanted to keep seeing her, I felt that would have been in character for a 16 year old, but to stand up to his father the way he did was really irritating. Come on Ephram, you know you are wrong. And who are you to demand that relationship? Like, take some seats child.I think you are right about Amy I think she was on a destructive path and probably why she went after Tommy to begin with. She just wanted a reaction out of people. I think you are right about Amy, I think she was just trying to lash out and get a reaction. It's probably whys started dating Tommy to begin with, actually. It's sad how Harold is acting. You would think he would be more mature and understanding over the situation but I will presume that Harold was just really upset about Amy's mental state and he was hoping that being hard on her would knock it out of her like maybe it had in the past.

I love your thoughts so much. I wish you were around when we were discussing live. So many regulars would have appreciated and loved your thoughts so much. Glad you're around now.

[Jerry D]

Wow, your posts are so brilliant Alexa. I really need to immerse myself in these episodes again and start posting on these threads. Keep in mind though that Madison is my favorite character, as Michelle can attest to through our many discussions about her, so I'll be disagreeing with you if you put her down!

[secretk]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Wow, your posts are so brilliant Alexa. I really need to immerse myself in these episodes again and start posting on these threads. Keep in mind though that Madison is my favorite character, as Michelle can attest to through our many discussions about her, so I'll be disagreeing with you if you put her down!

I forsee lots of conflicts with you two when it comes to Madison .

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) Wow, your posts are so brilliant Alexa. I really need to immerse myself in these episodes again and start posting on these threads. Keep in mind though that Madison is my favorite character, as Michelle can attest to through our many discussions about her, so I'll be disagreeing with you if you put her down!

You hate Madison so much, you can hardly say it with a straight face.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) I forsee lots of conflicts with you two when it comes to Madison .

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) You hate Madison so much, you can hardly say it with a straight face.

It's true!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) It's true!

Honestly, when it comes to the character of Madison, you can only laugh because punching walls/high blood pressure is not the healthy route to take.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) Honestly, when it comes to the character of Madison, you can only laugh because punching walls/high blood pressure is not the healthy route to take.

I already have high blood pressure, so yes, I have to laugh when it comes to her!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I already have high blood pressure, so yes, I have to laugh when it comes to her!

LOL

Honestly, when I watch parts of season 2 (and the random mentions/episodes she's in in seasons 3/4) I do get in a bad mood. I don't think people who are either indifferent to her or even like her realize how much we hate Madison.

[Alexa]

Michelle and Jerry you are too nice to me thank you I really enjoy rewatching these episodes because I dont remember a lot of the details. The first time I watched the series I kinda just half paid attention and it was mostly only holding the majority of my interest because of the ephram/amy storyline. But this time through I am really connecting more to the writing and the plot and paying more attention to everything, so its fun to write out my thoughts as if it were the first time I was watching!

Thank God you don't ACTUALLY love Madison or I would have been a bit worried. I really don't hate her, I just hate the storyline and what she's doing. I actually liked her the first go around because like I said, I found the storyline sort of "exciting" but this time, nopeeeee.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post) Michelle and Jerry you are too nice to me thank you I really enjoy rewatching these episodes because I dont remember a lot of the details. The first time I watched the series I kinda just half paid attention and it was mostly only holding the majority of my interest because of the ephram/amy storyline. But this time through I am really connecting more to the writing and the plot and paying more attention to everything, so its fun to write out my thoughts as if it were the first time I was watching!

When did you start watching the show the first time around? So glad you're connecting more to the writing/plot. We are thoroughly enjoying your experience while getting to read your thoughts and feelings on the episodes.

Thank God you don't ACTUALLY love Madison or I would have been a bit worried. I really don't hate her, I just hate the storyline and what she's doing. I actually liked her the first go around because like I said, I found the storyline sort of "exciting" but this time, nopeeeee.

Oh yes, fire away regarding anything concerning Madison. When this show was live the vast majority of the fanbase loathed her. She had some fans, a small minority but the overwhelming majority couldn't stand her and counted the days until she was gone. Of course, that count ended up being way too long but yes, she was considered a "villain" if you will for many. I've tried, I really have, seeing her point of view many times but I just could never get there. Sarah Lancaster was too good in the role is my explanation... I believe she was never trying to portray a Madison we should completely understand or feel sorry for. She understood Madison was around to shake things up, cause heartache, drama for Ephram and the main pairings in Andy/Ephram and Ephram/Amy, not to mention touch upon engaging in an illegal relationship. She played the part perfectly.