['Tos]

That's a great (and hard!) discussion question, Betty. I'll add it to the list and ask it for next week while it's still fresh in our heads.

Dolfan, you're right, Andy did show guilt, but only towards feeling bad for keeping the secret from Ephram and for sending Madison away, not about having a grandson somewhere that he may never see. So interesting. I wonder if during any of the talks about what happened in S4 between Andy and Ephram that Treat or Greg were ever playing with the subtext of Andy being a grandfather? I wonder if that would have been brought up later on if we had gotten S5 too. So interesting.

[courtneybangelcakes]

Sorry if I'm jumping into conversation here! I'm almost done with season four - I just have three more episodes, well technically two because of Goodbye, Love, and the two hour series finale.

There is definitely a lot I love about this season, but also some issues I've had with it - especially in the second half of the season. It got really, really dramatic in the past few episodes - with Bright falling out of a freaking window, Reid overdosing, Irv dying, Andy's father, Bright cheating! I'm really upset about Bright cheating, yet at the same time I get it. There was something off in their relationship, as much as I adore it, the sex issue was huge - at least for someone like Bright. I don't really like the Amy storyline with her being so involved in the women studies - I mean props to her, but it's not that interesting. And I hated seeing Hannah and Amy fight, even though Hannah got kind of annoying too. I personally loved Reid, and I wish we got more interaction with him and other characters ...but his character felt kind of filler in the end. Kyle I also really enjoyed, and I'm happy with that storyline. Him being gay was kind of stretch for me, but the scenes him and Ephram shared were amazing. The adoption storyline was meh for me, I doubt it's over ...And the best part of the past few episodes has been Nina/Andy That scene where he is touching her hair, and she says she thinks she might be in love with two people. Now that was an awesome scene. I used to love Jake/Nina, but they now are so obviously not supposed to be together. Andy has grown so much this season, and him and Nina so clearly need to be together. Also Amy/Ephram, who I miss so very much.

I hope the last three episodes are awesome I have high hopes!

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes (View Post) Sorry if I'm jumping into conversation here! I'm almost done with season four - I just have three more episodes, well technically two because of Goodbye, Love, and the two hour series finale.

Jump in anytime...that's what keeps the post count up!

Bright cheating! I'm really upset about Bright cheating, yet at the same time I get it. There was something off in their relationship, as much as I adore it, the sex issue was huge - at least for someone like Bright.

I'm glad to see that someone else agrees with me here. I don't believe in cheating...but I didn't feel as repulsed by Bright's behavior as most others did. I could honestly understand how it happened...for the reasons that you mentioned.

I don't really like the Amy storyline with her being so involved in the women studies - I mean props to her, but it's not that interesting.

I agree...couldn't stand Amy's professor...or Amy's involvement with all of these feminine causes.

And I hated seeing Hannah and Amy fight, even though Hannah got kind of annoying too.

Not too thrilled with this, either. I did like when Hannah advocated for Ephram, however. Too bad Amy didn't want to hear it.

Kyle I also really enjoyed, and I'm happy with that storyline.

I loved Kyle's storyline! It was one of my favorite parts of this season. His interaction with Ephram was a huge factor in Ephram's growth.

Him being gay was kind of stretch for me, but the scenes him and Ephram shared were amazing.

That was amazing...Ephram's handling of this situation with Kyle was perfect. His words were just what Kyle needed to hear...just a beautiful scene.

I love the growth of the Brown men this season...one of my favorites.

I hope the last three episodes are awesome I have high hopes!

You won't be disappointed.

[Thief Of Love]

Originally Posted by Betty I don't believe in cheating...but I didn't feel as repulsed by Bright's behavior as most others did. I could honestly understand how it happened...for the reasons that you mentioned.

I've always understood why it happened -- and have always advocated for its being the best thing to happen to their relationship on a fundamental level -- but that doesn't negate for me the wrongdoing inherent in cheating on one's significant other. I don't mind calling out an improper action the basis of which I still get.

[courtneybangelcakes]

I mean I hate that Bright cheated, and I don't support it - I understand it though. He is a young man, who has had sexy many, many times, and they were dating for quite some time. I mean I don't blame her at all, and I don't think she should change her beliefs, but I think something had to happen. But it's heartbreaking because I really do believe they love each other.

I love the scene where Ephram went to Hannah and told her to stay! That is real love, he truly cares about Amy.

Hannah can be so annoying sometimes, it's unfortunate. That scene where she sort of yelled at Reid - I hated that. I really, really do like her character, but this season has definitely been a 50/50 thing for me. And the fights with Amy did not benefit her, but Amy wasn't innocent either. At all.

The scene in Kyle's bedroom was so amazing, and beautiful. It was so genuine. But I personally just love their relationship, and I'm so glad Ephram was there for him. This truly was a season of growth for the Browns.

I watched Goodbye, Love - it was a really sweet/sad episode. Definitely my favorite part was the Amy/Ephram flashback. It really showed us how far they have come - it made me want to rewatch S2. I love the whole soulmate thing, and I agree with Ephram - that there is a limited number, but there are definitely a few people out there that you can really, and truly love. And Amy and Ephram are obviously that for each other.

The ending was obviously really sad. I thought I would cry because Everwood always makes me cry, but I just felt sad on the inside Like ...I don't know. I just felt bad for Edna.

ETA:

Can I just add something about Bright falling through the window - that was just so dramatic. And as much as I loved Hannah coming to his side, and crying over him - him waking up was so predictable that it took away from the moment. I actually loled because it was just so predictable. It would have been more moving if she just was there by his side, and then a couple scenes later he woke up IDK, ha.

['Tos]

Yes, definitely jump in anytime you'd like, Courtney. Especially with thoughts like these. Lots to respond to!

Just a word on Bright cheating: I don't think you were ever alone on understanding why it happened, Betty. As I recall, the last time we discussed it, that view was the majority, so you've always had people who agreed with you on that one. Now it's just Wendell we've got to get some people on your side!

Why did you feel that Kyle being gay was a stretch, Courtney? Not to put you on the spot, heh, but I've just never heard that, so you've got me curious!

Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes Hannah can be so annoying sometimes, it's unfortunate. That scene where she sort of yelled at Reid - I hated that. I really, really do like her character, but this season has definitely been a 50/50 thing for me. And the fights with Amy did not benefit her, but Amy wasn't innocent either. At all.

I agree with that, as a big Hannah fan, and I know you're a big Hannah/Bright fan. S3 was her magic season. S4..the writers dropped the ball with her a too few many times. Unfortunately, it's the season that everyone remembers best because it's the last, so she's remembered with those missteps by the writers not for everything that was so right in S3. Really, how everyone should remember her is a scene I love in the finale that I think you'll enjoy because it's hilarious.

Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes Can I just add something about Bright falling through the window - that was just so dramatic. And as much as I loved Hannah coming to his side, and crying over him - him waking up was so predictable that it took away from the moment. I actually loled because it was just so predictable. It would have been more moving if she just was there by his side, and then a couple scenes later he woke up IDK, ha.

You captured the reaction to that whole thing perfectly. I remember the commercial for that episode was so dramatic too, showing Bright going through the window in slow motion. Yeah, that will get the audience to watch!

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the finale! *rubs hands together*

[Dolfan13]

We watched two more ("An Ounce of Prevention" and "Across the Lines"). Eight more to go!

"An Ounce of Prevention" is really one of the best episodes in the series. There's a lot of good things in there: Ephram helping Kyle come out of the closet, Ephram and Andy's talk at the end where they find peace once more, Amy meeting Ephram to help him with Kyle and one of the best MEoWs (Ellie). The only really silly thing was Bright and Hannah's storyline but at least it helped provide laughs to offset.

I kind of see the episode as somewhat of a symbol of the season. Ephram helping Kyle while (finally) maturing. Ephram and Andy becoming comfortable as father and son. Ephram and Amy being there for each other while not dating one another. A good MEoW for a season that had some good ones. Lastly, I wasn't the biggest fan of Bright/Hannah but it kind of showed their problems and where they were headed.

Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes (View Post) Hannah can be so annoying sometimes, it's unfortunate. That scene where she sort of yelled at Reid - I hated that. I really, really do like her character, but this season has definitely been a 50/50 thing for me. And the fights with Amy did not benefit her, but Amy wasn't innocent either. At all. The scene in Kyle's bedroom was so amazing, and beautiful. It was so genuine. But I personally just love their relationship, and I'm so glad Ephram was there for him. This truly was a season of growth for the Browns.

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of Hannah in season four. I've mentioned it before but I would have liked it more if Hannah and Bright never dated but were very good friends instead.

Great scene and absolutely agree!

[courtneybangelcakes]

Why did you feel that Kyle being gay was a stretch, Courtney? Not to put you on the spot, heh, but I've just never heard that, so you've got me curious!

I feel that it was kind of out of nowhere. Like I can definitely see it, but at the same time I only saw him as a shy boy, and they never really even hinted at Kyle being gay. I'm totally fine with it, and like I said - that scene with Ephram was incredible, to say the least, it just seemed underdeveloped.

I agree with that, as a big Hannah fan, and I know you're a big Hannah/Bright fan. S3 was her magic season. S4..the writers dropped the ball with her a too few many times. Unfortunately, it's the season that everyone remembers best because it's the last, so she's remembered with those missteps by the writers not for everything that was so right in S3. Really, how everyone should remember her is a scene I love in the finale that I think you'll enjoy because it's hilarious.

Yeah she could get annoying, especially when she would kind of just make problems up in her and Bright's relationship. I adore that relationship to pieces, but she would just make up problems ...probably because neither of them wanted to deal with what The real problem was - Bright's sexual frustration. I still really enjoy her character, just some bad scenes stand out.

You captured the reaction to that whole thing perfectly. I remember the commercial for that episode was so dramatic too, showing Bright going through the window in slow motion. Yeah, that will get the audience to watch!

I figured they would use that in a commercial! Yeah, I hate when shows do stuff like that. Felicity did that in its last season too when Ben got in an accident. And One Tree Hill had an accident every season ....And I thought it was so casual. There was a part where the Doctor just directly states "Blah, blah, blah or he will die" and the Abbots are just like "ok we'll wait" Is was like wut! But like I said, I do appreciate the Bright and Hannah scene before he woke up!

So I finished! Everwood, you're so perfect. I wish there was more, but the scenes they had were golden. My favorite scenes had to be, first and foremost, Andy talking to Julia's grave, Amy and Ephram Ferris wheel (squeee!), Andy proposing woooo, Bright and Hannah's mountain scene (bestfriends for life ...and hopefully more), Nina being there when Andy got home, Andy giving Delia the horse, the Abbotts getting the baby, Amy's flashbacks :love, Amy and Ephram dance (it's better on youtube, but the song isn't that bad. I actually really liked the song they chose for the flashbacks), Jake's goodbye was sad, Ephram and Andy's last scene, Harold and Andy's last scene - just so many.

I'm just happy that the series ended with Ephram and Amy. It felt right. They were the heart of the show in so many ways. They've come so far, and truly are one of the most amazing, natural, realistic, loving couples. It's like a real love - they bring out the best in each other. I love what Amy said to Hannah about how he makes her feel. And I loved their final kiss, so beautiful and finally! What Ephram said to her truly made my heart feel so good.

But like I said, hopefully Bright and Hannah get back together. I'm glad their last scene was about their friendship though - because that's where it began. That's how he fell for her, when he saw how amazing she was. And him telling her to go was the ultimate sacrifice that made her stay I love the scene where they are going over pros and cons - shows how much he loves her. Seriously, the way he looks at her.

And yes, Nina and Andy make me so happy! Andy ended up being one of my favorite characters ever. He has such a good, and loving heart. And he developed so much. All of them have. And his proposal was beautiful, and it made me happy.

And can I just say how much I hate the Alternate Ending Awful, awful.

['Tos]

Dolfan, only 8 more to go? Eek, it goes by fast, doesn't it? Can't there be, like, 20 more episodes??? Are you two going to watch the alternate ending for the first time together?

Originally Posted by Dolfan "An Ounce of Prevention" is really one of the best episodes in the series. There's a lot of good things in there: Ephram helping Kyle come out of the closet, Ephram and Andy's talk at the end where they find peace once more, Amy meeting Ephram to help him with Kyle and one of the best MEoWs (Ellie). The only really silly thing was Bright and Hannah's storyline but at least it helped provide laughs to offset. I kind of see the episode as somewhat of a symbol of the season. Ephram helping Kyle while (finally) maturing. Ephram and Andy becoming comfortable as father and son. Ephram and Amy being there for each other while not dating one another. A good MEoW for a season that had some good ones. Lastly, I wasn't the biggest fan of Bright/Hannah but it kind of showed their problems and where they were headed.

Great thoughts. Can't add anything more other than it's got me in the mood to watch the ep!

Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes I feel that it was kind of out of nowhere. Like I can definitely see it, but at the same time I only saw him as a shy boy, and they never really even hinted at Kyle being gay. I'm totally fine with it, and like I said - that scene with Ephram was incredible, to say the least, it just seemed underdeveloped.

Understood, for sure. I think that was maybe what the writers were going for, having it be a surprise for us, and a bigger surprise for Ephram.

Yeah she could get annoying, especially when she would kind of just make problems up in her and Bright's relationship. I adore that relationship to pieces, but she would just make up problems ...probably because neither of them wanted to deal with what The real problem was - Bright's sexual frustration. I still really enjoy her character, just some bad scenes stand out.

I'm sure her talking about him going to HE double hockey sticks was one of those bad scenes. I still can't believe they had Hannah say that.

Aw, to you getting to the ending, but great thoughts! SO many special moments and you got so many of them. I'm so glad that you mentioned Andy and Harold's last scene; I'm so glad we got them together one last time and being fun but also just having a great friendship.

And yes, Nina and Andy make me so happy! Andy ended up being one of my favorite characters ever. He has such a good, and loving heart. And he developed so much. All of them have. And his proposal was beautiful, and it made me happy.

I feel that Andy likely had the best ending out of everyone.

And can I just say how much I hate the Alternate Ending Awful, awful.

Indeed! Thank goodness we only had to see that on DVD, not on the actual show!

[Dolfan13]

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post) Dolfan, only 8 more to go? Eek, it goes by fast, doesn't it? Can't there be, like, 20 more episodes??? Are you two going to watch the alternate ending for the first time together?

Yeah, down to the wire, haha.

You know, I'm not so sure on the alternate ending. It was pretty crappy, heh. I think that I'd definitely wait at least a day to show her it so she can let the real finale sink in.

Since there is so much that happens in the last eight episodes, I'm thinking I'll let my sister post all of her thoughts when she (hopefully) joins.

Great thoughts. Can't add anything more other than it's got me in the mood to watch the ep!

Thanks! Go for it!

['Tos]

That's a good idea on the alternate ending. Or to save her the grief we're having right now, maybe just never show it? Oy, it was that bad, wasn't it?

[Amont]

Sorry to crash the S4 party, but I'm just in the middle of S3.. E/A has been very interesting and now with the whole 'Ephram going to see Joe Lies (Madison's band)' it's been a bit rough.. but I feel like it was something that was in the air for some time.. I mean all couples go through problems, I mean they had their first issues in the beginning of S3 already, but now it's gone down to being a bit more serious. And I love how they dealt with it and how it also contrasts with the relationship troubles Irv and Edna have at the same time.. and both of these couples find a reasonable solution for it. It's just a bit more sad with E/A because they seemed to be getting along wonderfully, moving on to the next 'level' with their first time together in bed and everything. But it's natural.. and I loved these scenes where Ephram was trying to make amends and while they were really-really heartbreaking, it was just interesting to see that other side of having a serious love relationship with someone. These things just happen. I mean I'm not standing up for Ephram, he DID lie, but I can understand him. He had his doubts - as I suppose every guy would have - about going to see the band, but he let curiosity get the best of him, which in turn led him to make the mistake in lying to his girlfriend. And he snapped out of it really quickly when he realized how pathetic it was. But damage, even if little, was done already so.. I believe that.. as much as we all would like to see Ephram as this perfect guy, he IS still a guy.. who makes mistakes like all of us do. I mean if he didn't, how could he learn and grow as a person and ultimately, as a man? He has been referred to as this guy who acts and behaves as if he's 10 years older than he really is, and some of the stuff he does is surprisingly mature and reasonable, but he is 17 (I think, in S3?) and still has to go through all of that stuff.. that people go through when they're growing up.

On the other hand, I think Amy could've been a bit more easy on him, and she realized that later in the episode 'Complex Guilt'. That scene where they make up and how it ends with both of them chuckling and being supportive as ever, realizing that what they have is rare. Great stuff. Exactly how couples work things out.. I think?

It's so wonderful to see Hannah talking to Bright about the same thing afterwards, when they're making sandwiches together. About how E/A is something everybody strives for.

Ahh, long-long post Sorry. I'll leave my thoughts on Andy and Amanda for the next time Let's just say I never hated them as much as everybody else here does, because at first I didn't really understand them and now I see them in a different way, not at all that negatively.

[Moviecritic315]

Hey there! I'm Dolfan's sister and I've just recently joined : )

My brother and I have just finished the series, and to be honest, I'm so awestruck by how I a) missed out from the getgo and b) haven't found another show (apart from Friday Night Lights) to match this show's spirit and integrity in quite some time.

Oh man, I have so many thoughts on the series and how much it means to me personally I don't know where to begin. One of the overall things I love about it is how beautifully everything unfolded: the reconstruction of a broken family - particularly the father son/dynamic which I always finds interesting and poignant - the dynamics of a small town that touches the lives of those who are lucky to find it; the heart and soul of the dialogue... I'm just floored.

Now that the series is finished, I don't know what to do with my life!! Maybe have my brother write some fanfics : p

~FOREVERWOOD~

[everwoodfan52]

Amont, I also understand Ephram's curiosity about Madison...and I did cut him some slack. But....don't you think this behavior came awfully soon after Ephram and Amy's time in the cabin? Amy/Ephram had absolutely no time to bask in the afterglow of that experience...so disappointing. We went from a beautiful episode of A/E love...to this!!

On the other hand, I think Amy could've been a bit more easy on him,

Yes, I think her anger at Ephram was a little extreme.

I'll leave my thoughts on Andy and Amanda for the next time

I can't wait to hear those.





Moviecritic!!! So happy your brother introduced you to this show and that you have joined us!!!

I'm with you...there is no other show that has touched me this way (and I also watched Friday Night Lights in order to experience a show like Everwood).

I am so looking forward to hearing your thoughts about the characters/episodes/scenarios....anything you want to share with us!

Now that the series is finished, I don't know what to do with my life!

Why do you think we're all still here?!?

[Amont]

everwoodfan52, I agree. It came a little too soon. Maybe an episode or two in between would've been good. But anyway, it was an experience that helped them both grow, as individuals and as a couple.