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The Maria 02-08-2004 01:50 PM

Episode Discussion: Episode 214 "No Sure Thing"
 
From thewb.com
"No Sure Thing"

Airs Monday, Feb. 9, 2004, 9pm EST/8 pm C

Ephram (Gregory Smith) gets the wrong idea when Madison (Sarah Lancaster) tells him her roommate is going to be out of town, but the misunderstanding leads to an intimate moment for the couple. In other matters of the heart, Amy (Emily VanCamp) decides she's ready to have sex with Tommy (Paul Wasilewski), so she works up the courage to ask Dr. Brown (Treat Williams) to write her a prescription for birth control pills, and Andy makes the important decision to talk to Ephram and Delia (Vivien Cardone) about Linda (Marcia Cross) spending the night at their house.
Debra Mooney, John Beasley, Chris Pratt, Stephanize Niznik and Tom Amandes also star. Perry Lang directed the episode written by Joan Binder Weiss.
-----
you know the drill folks.

Cruel Irony 02-08-2004 06:20 PM

D'you guys think Nina'll be in it?

If one of the couples were to go throught with it, which do you think it would be?

The Maria 02-08-2004 07:48 PM

dude stupid carry ate my post!

anyway, wha ti had said was that i think madison and ephram are most likley to go through with it because i think tommy will stop him and amy. he knows her past and how broken she is and i don't think he'd hurt her like that.
-maria

Cruel Irony 02-08-2004 08:19 PM

I'm pretty sure the WB is making a cop out... their promos are always misleading. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

But between the two of them I'd say Ephram and Madison, definently. Just because Tommy is so new to the show and I think Amy wouldn't be so quick to.

Argh. Dissapointed. Sorry to go off on Nina again, but apparently she's not in it. After last week's touching rekindling of the Nina/Andy friendship, that really makes me mad.

And I'd also like to see Nina in a different capacity than just "Andy's Friend". I loved when they had the episode when she found out about her husband. That was Nina in her own story.

Sorry for the rant.

Bandbabe 02-08-2004 11:45 PM

Amy's character has definitely changed over the duration of the show. Unfortunately she has gone downhill. I don't like her with Tommy. I think they should break up. His character just irks me.

Bandbabe [img]smilies/halfstar.gif[/img]

Margarita Salt 02-10-2004 02:06 AM

So it was Madison and Ephram that actually did it? Or did they? It looked like they were going at it at the very end of the episode. I think they did it. As a shipper of these two I have no complaints. I say keep the M/E love coming for as long as it can, cause from the look on Madisons face after Ephram says the "L" word in the promo, the writers are looking to split them up soon. Pains me to admit it, but I knew it wasn't gonna last. I just hope we get lots more of them before the end.

Kelly_mv 02-10-2004 03:18 AM

I loved how Amy mentioned always thinking Colin would have been her first.
I'm really glad Amy ended up not doing it.

*Dominique* 02-10-2004 06:20 AM

I am so glad Amy did not do it with Tommy. She was doing it for the wrong reasons. I am happy for Eph and Madi! I think they gave us sweet and at the same time hilarious scenes. Plus, after what Eph told Madi, who wouldn't sleep with the guy. But most of all, I am glad Amy didn't do it. Tommy is a loser and we all know it after last night. I hate that but it looks like her parents and everyone else were right. I also think it is sad that the first person who gets Amy out of her depression will actually turn out to be a liar. I hope it is not the case but it does look that way. Sorry don't know anything else... spoilers free here [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Dixie1903 02-10-2004 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by *Dominique*:
<STRONG>I am so glad Amy did not do it with Tommy. She was doing it for the wrong reasons. I am happy for Eph and Madi! I think they gave us sweet and at the same time hilarious scenes. Plus, after what Eph told Madi, who wouldn't sleep with the guy. But most of all, I am glad Amy didn't do it. Tommy is a loser and we all know it after last night. I hate that but it looks like her parents and everyone else were right. I also think it is sad that the first person who gets Amy out of her depression will actually turn out to be a liar. I hope it is not the case but it does look that way. Sorry don't know anything else... spoilers free here [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]</STRONG>

I'm also glad Amy didn't do anything with Tommy he kinda seemed to be up to something. I do think emp and Madi did sleep together. I thought it was a pretty good eposide I do think Tommy and Amy will break up in the next epoisde. And Emp with L word wow, that sound be new. we'll have to see.

The Maria 02-10-2004 02:05 PM

I like us learning why tommy was still dealing, it made it more real. There are a lot of people out there who are forced to do things they don't really want to do because without that little bit of cash that that activity, illegal or not, their family wouldn't be able to survive. I don't blame Amy for being mad though. He should have told her.
I was also glad amy did bring up Colin.

As for Madison and Ephram, i was very dissapointed they went through with it. Personal shipping opinions aside i think it was way too soon. Perhaps if it had been a while like more than a month, that's where I think I had the biggest problem. And judging by the lyrics of "Anna Begins" (great song btw way) they chose to play the part that goes "i'm not ready for this sort of thing"....i think that means their gonna split them up which is probably why the rushed the whole sex thing. Even as a greenie i'd rather have them together for a longer time if it meant that the sex topic wasnt' rushed.

As for Andy's admonishment of Edna- wtg Doc Brown, and also i'm glad he stood up for linda but i wonder why it was she wanted to break up with him...i doubt it was just his kids.

On a final note, i am very glad to see that Linda and Delia are starting to get along better.

Oh btw....any roswellians out there catch the opening song?
-maria

BepperGirl 02-10-2004 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Maria:
Oh btw....any roswellians out there catch the opening song?
-maria
I did, Maria! I did! I was so happy but also almost moved to tears at the same time cuz the last time I heard that song on TV was actually on The American Embassy (it was when the bombing took place in the pilot).

I liked the B/E moments. Tell him I tried. That was sweet like B was being the gf covering for the bf's @$$.

Gaby

*Keyser*Soze* 02-10-2004 03:33 PM

I've just started getting into this show again...I've been on and off but the show was excellent. I don't really have a preference of whom anyone should be with but I just like Ephram. He would have been a guy I would have liked in high school.

portkey00 02-10-2004 05:46 PM

Ephram was kind of a jerk in this episode. I don't know. That annoys me a lot, because he is such a good character.

I also hoped that this episode wouldn't completly revolve around sex. But, of course, it did.

Profrrplum 02-10-2004 06:00 PM

Well, it's all about sex. I'll leave to others the admiration of Ephram without a shirt, and other details (although there was nothing really graphic in the episode), 'cause I want to think a little bit about what all of this means for the long-term story arc of character development which is at the core of Everwood for me.

Ephram, Amy, Linda, and less directly Maddy (who I think knew it already, wise Maddy), Tommy (who ends up being surprisingly good in all respects in his relationship with Amy except for the fact that, oh, yes, he's a repeatedly felonious drug dealer), and Dr. Andrew Brown, all learn, or have their learning refreshed, that sex is just not all that easy a thing to deal with. No wonder, Andy (who's old enough to remember the book) might have said, that Erica Jong wanted "This Zipless *****." But there is no such thing.

And as a structural matter, I think the writers, director, and producers (oh, yes, with a little help from the cast), did an absolutely wonderful job of doing what needed to be done to make this episode convey its message without the usual smarm of teen shows (of course, Everwood is not just a teen show -- statistics compiled by Nielsen indicate that its mean audience age is 41). Emily VanCamp continues to amaze me with the excellence of her acting; I pick her out because during the first season I thought she was pretty much a Jane One-Note, and I like to emphasize how wrong I was. Everyone else, right down to and definitely including Vivien Cardone, does an excellent job as well.

And what did they convey? To me, the teen characters (I include Maddy in that despite her exalted status of being 20) learned or to an extent re-learned that the fantasy worlds we construct aren't always very congruent with the real world of experience, that things don't necessarily work out as we've planned, and that for all that things can be pretty good if we just face them up and deal with them on our own terms rather than waiting for stuff to happen to us. Maybe old advice, but human existence dictates that we must re-learn this stuff every eighteen years or so -- so that's OK. We who've been there need to be refreshed in it, too, as Andy's and Linda's experience shows -- mature adults both, sexually experienced, at the basic height of their personal powers, they aren't much better off than the teens when it comes to dealing with the complexities of feelings and sex (complicated by the HIV matter in a sense, but that's not really the main thing, as Andy pretty eloquently explained). Edna does a little better in her own way, getting through to Amy in one of the best-acted scenes this always well-acted show has presented, but she's not directly having to deal with the problem. Still, she sees it: "you all don't have much kid time. It all gets pretty serious pretty fast."

They all grew some in this episode, maybe even Tommy-the-pusher. He certainly behaved as well as any teen boy could ever be expected to behave in terms of respecting Amy's choices and needs. Although I think drugs should be generally legalized, regulated, and taxed, I nonetheless have no use for those who sell them to schoolkids under present conditions -- but it's hard to find Tommy completely dark. As the God of Joan of Arcadia might say, there is light in all of us to begin with; I'm not convinced that Tommy's light has yet been fully extinguished. He certainly seemed to figure out that there might be something in Amy that was worth more than the drugs and their money. Probably the first time in his life that he's actually experienced that. But can he execute on the idea? Maybe we'll see.

So the main characters all grew, perhaps even including Delia, who (albeit that she was bribed a bit -- hey, Delia, you ever seen that horse? beward of Andy's promising gifts!) OK'd Andy and Linda's sleepover -- and let's not think for a New York second that she didn't comprehend what was meant by that, in general terms at least. But growth doesn't come without pain and the need to think.

I rate this episode a solid "A."
_________________
"We sometimes act as if we think we could stop the world from spinning just by being mad." -- Irv.

Profrrplum 02-10-2004 06:30 PM

BTW, I vote that Ephram and Maddy didn't go all the way up at the Point. (I guess every town has a Point where the kids go; we called ours "Inspiration Point," and it had a great view of Denver -- at night it was a sparkling fairyland. Not that we much noticed.) Maybe some heavy macking, but not to "the" point. I just think the program will make a bigger deal of it when it happens. (I do think Maddy gets Ephram's v-chip eventually, though.)

Cruel Irony 02-10-2004 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Profrrplum:
<STRONG>
(who I think knew it already, wise Maddy)</STRONG>
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I'm waiting to see some closure. The fact that Ephram and Madison had sex didn't really give me anything. I'd like to see the aftermath.

ultimatedreamer 02-11-2004 01:14 AM

This was a solid episode. I'm happy that Amy did not go thru with it with Tommy since he has "issues". And it turns out Grandma was right, since she's on medication and she hasn't known Tommy long enough and she's very young, its not right and she's not ready. Points to Tommy for understanding and saying that if she's not ready its ok.

Bright, what can I say he is a fast talking wonder. He was so wise, silly, and funny at the same time, it was fantastic to see.
-"....do you have some kind of ritual or do you just pray to god and hope you don't screw it up like the rest of us?" had to be the best line ever.

As for Eph and the "incident", that was done well, fairly realistic, and way funny, I have never seen anyone move that fast. I loved it when he was in the car and said "..I kinda miss my pride", can I say there are times when many of us have too.

All in all very well done. Additionally, a roswellian checking in regarding the music...yep I caught it, that song make me happy and sad every time I hear it and I still love it....I still believe.

Houston 02-11-2004 08:39 AM

Didn't love this episode, but it was decent enough.

Ephram- OMG you gottal love this character. I so felt for him during his first "attempt" with Madison. Poor Madison had to try and keep a straight face. But I totally understand why Ephram just went nuts over it. he couldn't get out of there fast enough. Anyways, I think with the last scene with him and Madison in the car, its safe to assume that they went all the way. And even though I am not a Madison/Ephram fan, it doesn't bother me.

Amy- So glad that she did not do it. She is way to screwed up to be making any kind of decision about sex right now. Plus the fact that Tommy is still dealing doesn't bode well for their relationship.

Andy- I think Andy has come a long way in parenting. He is really beginning to understand his children and their moods. He is also understanding when to leave things alone and when to confront. Big thumbs up for his seeing how upset Ephram was after his first "attempt" and for 1) not pushing the issue of Ephram's lying and 2) just giving Ephram some space. Kudos to Andy for that. Still not feeling him and Linda and am patiently waiting for it to end.

Delia- Since when has she been so chummy with Linda. I sort of wish she was still snotty to her.

Bright- Be still me beating heart. This character just gets better and better. Not to mention he is hilarious. Great attempt at trying to cover for Ephram. And his advice to Ephram is just so funny. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] Now if he can only get his own storyline.

Andy/Edna- Great scene and I am not sure who to root for. By head says that Andy was in the right to give Amy the pills. He is a doctor and she did come to him for help. But I understand why Edna was angry as well. Liked her talk with Amy and how she did not let on that she actually knew that Amy had gone to Andy for BC pills.

Anyways, looks like James Earl Jones is back for next weeks episode so it should be stellar. BTW, Bright in that car rapping and the look on everyone's face... looks to be hysterical.

EphramIsHot 02-11-2004 06:09 PM

Not as bad as I thought it was gonna be...

I'm totally glad Amy and Tommy didn't do it. I mean, he's still dealing (boo!!!) and I really think she was doing it for all the wrong reasons. Kudos to Amy for changing her mind!

Oh man, Ephram, I felt so bad for him! Although I love that character to death, it was sorta funny. Poor guy. I think it pretty much goes without saying that he and Madison went all the way. Not too pleased with that, but hey, what can you do, right?

Andy and Linda - Linda, you're still being all weird, and it's starting to creep me out. That's all I have to say there.

Wow, Bright is so funny! Loved his cover-up attempt. I love that character too, he's got all the elements of a main character - humour, looks, depth (when needed), feelings.... now, why won't the WB give him his own storyline? Come on, guys, please!

All in all, though, a pretty good episode.

EphramIsHot 02-11-2004 06:10 PM

Not as bad as I thought it was gonna be...

I'm totally glad Amy and Tommy didn't do it. I mean, he's still dealing (boo!!!) and I really think she was doing it for all the wrong reasons. Kudos to Amy for changing her mind!

Oh man, Ephram, I felt so bad for him! Although I love that character to death, it was sorta funny. Poor guy. I think it pretty much goes without saying that he and Madison went all the way. Not too pleased with that, but hey, what can you do, right?

Andy and Linda - Linda, you're still being all weird, and it's starting to creep me out. That's all I have to say there.

Wow, Bright is so funny! Loved his cover-up attempt. I love that character too, he's got all the elements of a main character - humour, looks, depth (when needed), feelings.... now, why won't the WB give him his own storyline? Come on, guys, please!

All in all, though, a pretty good episode. This was gonna be a "deciding episode" for me... if everyone ended up doing it, I was thinking about stopping watching it, cause personnally I'm against sex at this age, but I was overall happy with the episode. So I guess it's more Everwood for me (yay!)!!

Aquillea 02-11-2004 09:08 PM

Not much time. Mostly I'll agree with what's been said alread. A couple of the longer posts are particularly well written and astute.

I must take issue with this point:
Quote:

There are a lot of people out there who are forced to do things they don't really want to do because without that little bit of cash that that activity, illegal or not, their family wouldn't be able to survive.
Uh, Tommy can claim 'paying the rent' all he wants, but he just acquired a $300 palm pilot/cell phone doo-dad for his girlfriend to celebrate their 1 month Anniv. Not their 1 YEAR Anniv... 1 month. I'm don't doubt that the standard of living for Tommy's family is no where near middle class, but if he's dealing drugs to pay the rent he should have bought Amy one rose with some baby's breath in a vase for about $10 - $15 and used the rest of what he saved on Amy's present to make a down payment on next month's rent.

Yeah, he said he got it cheap. OK. 1st, I was suspicious about that story before we even had the drug deal revelation. 2nd, why should I believe that story now?

Admittedly, Tommy *was* pretty cool regarding Amy's '1st time'. I hope this show doesn't get al soapy and he remains a character of mixed virtue. It's very possible that his coolness was deliberately faked in order to build Amy's trust. I hope not... for the sake of the show's integrity.

-Aquillea

The Maria 02-13-2004 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquillea:
<STRONG>
I must take issue with this point:

Uh, Tommy can claim 'paying the rent' all he wants, but he just acquired a $300 palm pilot/cell phone doo-dad for his girlfriend to celebrate their 1 month Anniv. Not their 1 YEAR Anniv... 1 month. I'm don't doubt that the standard of living for Tommy's family is no where near middle class, but if he's dealing drugs to pay the rent he should have bought Amy one rose with some baby's breath in a vase for about $10 - $15 and used the rest of what he saved on Amy's present to make a down payment on next month's rent.

Yeah, he said he got it cheap. OK. 1st, I was suspicious about that story before we even had the drug deal revelation. 2nd, why should I believe that story now?

Admittedly, Tommy *was* pretty cool regarding Amy's '1st time'. I hope this show doesn't get al soapy and he remains a character of mixed virtue. It's very possible that his coolness was deliberately faked in order to build Amy's trust. I hope not... for the sake of the show's integrity.

-Aquillea</STRONG>
I think that by saying "it fell off the truck" that they implied it was either stolen or give in exchange for cash, like a customer who couldn't pay. Other than that we saw tommy's living conditions and they were poor.
-maria

Maliejandra 02-15-2004 08:17 AM

I was so glad Laynie was in this episode! And she wasn't being reckless in this one too!

I was a little upset that they played I Shall Believe by Sheryl Crow only because that song is and will always be reserved for the purity of the Dreamers on Roswell. I was going to blow a fuse if it was going to be Ephram and Madison's "song" but luckily that didn't happen.

I LOVE Bright. He is an idiot but he is the funniest character on the show. Has he even had sex before?

As far as the crazy sex on this episode, am pretty much apalled. It seems this is the way most teenagers think: "Let's get it over with", "I've been invited so I have to do it", ect ect. I saw no love in these episodes.
I think Amy's thoughts on having sex with Tommy came out of desperation of losing Colin. She knew she'd never be able to be with him so she was going to settle. I am glad she didn't. It isn't that I don't like Tommy (even though selling drugs is bad), it is just that I know she doesn't love him the way she loved Colin and I believe she can find that again. Just not so soon afterward when she isn't over him and hasn't really talked about him to anyone yet. He's a burden on her sholders.
I've hated Madison and Ephram together for a long time because I see her constantly parenting him and he's far too immature to be in a relationship with her. I don't believe he loves her. How can he after so little time together? He doesn't talk about her with other people and such. It doesn't seem like he loves her at all to me. Their decisions about sex were stupidity. Madison randomly changing her mind about Ephram was a bad one because it was made without thinking. And Ephram freaking out about his premature ejaculation just proved he wasn't ready. They were being completely open about everything and laughing and then one small thing and he couldn't be mature about it. And their "song" said "I'm not ready for this sort of thing"!
I feel like Andy is just racing into a relationship with Linda. Adults or people who have had sex before seem to just rush into it and no longer keep it special. I think that is what Andy is doing with Linda. Again, I see no love there, only the potential for love. That doesn't warrent sex.
I realize sex isn't any huge deal at the time, but it does symbolize something even if the actual act isn't as glamorous as it seems on tv. I do not understand how anyone could just toss it around the way these characters are.

And why does Deliah seem so young? She is about 10 isn't she? She should know about sex by now, but when they talk about it, her eyes glaze over as if she doesn't know.

Concerning birth control, I am glad they took proper precautions but don't they realize they're opening themselves up to diseases too when their parners have had sex before. You can't tell me they've been tested. It might seem unromantic and not trusting, but I would definitly have my boyfriend tested if he wasn't a virgin.
Also, I realize that parents hearing about their children having sex must be pretty traumatized because it is a sign of age. But do NOT ask your children to talk to you about it and then freak out when you hear about it. I know that I could never talk to my parents about it before it happened because they would probably do everything in their power to stop it and I'm restricted from a social life too much as it is. They say they'll give me things when I need it, but even if I only thought I might, they'd automatically assume I was going to have sex, like in Amy's case. I've thought about all the goods and bads of sex and have decided to wait until I am married. I know there are things that could happen along the way but that is the standard I've set for myself not only for religious reasons but for safety ones as well for the relationship and medically. I wish more people would realize how much abstinence is a safety rope.

The Crow 02-16-2004 11:14 AM

Of course, being a Jailbaiter, I have a bit of a different outlook on Ephram and Madison. I think that they are one of the better couple on the show. Their little 'point escapade' aside, they have taken the most time to develop their relationship. She has been around him for quite a while now, and has had the time to develop a comfortableness with him that a few weeks of dating wouldn't normally. I do agree that it was a bit wishy washy for her to freak out about him assuming they'd have sex only to jump him the next day, but hey, this is tv. Also, the timeline on this show is kinda fuzzy at times, so how are we to know exactly how long Madison and Ephram have been dating?

fulfilledღ 07-08-2010 12:43 AM

I'm really glad Amy is thinking with her head again and not so wrapped up in Tommy. Tommy, I know deep down is bad guy. I doubt that Amy going to his house is about him on food stamps and being poor. Everyone has problems.

But I am oddly happy for Ephram/Madison. I'm glad Ephram's happy, and if it's with Madison so be it. However, I know the future of them. So it's hard to say if I'm truely happy for them :lol: But I laughed so hard when Ephram...you know what happened when Madison was reaching for the condoms. I did feel sorry for him when he was embarassed by it and really just wanted to crawl under a rock and forget the sun will rise again. But it was good that Andy understood something was wrong and didn't pry like he used to. They're getting better at their understanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly_mv (Post 770614)
I loved how Amy mentioned always thinking Colin would have been her first.
I'm really glad Amy ended up not doing it.

I can guess Amy's depression would've been worse if she had slept with Colin


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