Everwood - Episode Discussion: Ep #312- "Giving Up The Girl" - Page 4

Aquillea · 01-26-2005, 03:42 PM

I think you said 'diabolical' in the original post... which is why that typo in mine {eyes rolling} was supposed to be 'sinister'. If they *did* a batterer story on Everwood I'd prefer it to not venture into sinister/diabolical territory. That's what led my thoughts beyond that. {shiver} There are many, many ways to be bad without being diabolical and I don't think typical batterers would qualify as diabolical...

In all honesty, I really don't *want* to see a diabolical character on Everwood. Frankly, diabolical sounds sorta Batman-ish to me. Anyway, certainly a lot closer to obsessive vendetta/stalker guy than wifebeater guy...

On your next *fresh* episode of Everwood... Jeffrey Dahmer's evil twin brother drifts into town... Diabolical... {sigh}

Hopefully Scott Wolf/e (?) was doing a little spin doctoring or being facetious.
A~

The Crow · 01-26-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquillea

In all honesty, I really don't *want* to see a diabolical character on Everwood. Frankly, diabolical sounds sorta Batman-ish to me. Anyway, certainly a lot closer to obsessive vendetta/stalker guy than wifebeater guy...
A~

I know what you mean. When I see that word I envision The Joker and The Riddler and giant Bam! Whap! and Bang! as people get punched all around them. (Holy diabolical fiends Batman!

)

I'm not sure that I would believe Jake as a batterer though. I guess anyone can have a dark side, but he just doesn't seem imposing or threatening in the least. I guess that stranger things have happened, but I've alway found him kind of loopy acting and slightly effeminate. If he's secretly this monster who abuses girlfriends/wives, then he hides it well. Also, I doubt that his girlfriend would have driven all the way to Everwood to look him up if he'd been knocking the hell out of her all the time. Then again, I'm no expert on domestic abuse, so it's not like I necessarily know what I'm talking about.

**jediwands** · 01-26-2005, 04:23 PM

You're absolutely right. Scott could have been a little too energetic doing the PR and exaggerated things a bit. I'm so with you.. I also don't want to see anyone diabolical in Everwood. If he is correct in using the word diabolical, then look out, because we won't be watching Everwood anymore.. More like Friday The 13th.

MAKRO · 01-27-2005, 10:04 AM

Since we're speculating on possibilities for Jake's sinister secret (and I believe he has one), did anyone notice that when Nina said "Are you sure you don't have kids" when Jake was treating Sam during The Reflex, he never answered the question?
Speaking of possible foreshadowing:
1) Bright to move out? This would be a good storyline. But, if he truly wanted to establish his independence, would he accept financial support from his folks? I'm not sure if an entry level file clerk's salary would support him. But he could have a roomie. How about Hannah? Good story potential, but I'm guessing no. But, I definitely see him moving out somehow. It would be a perfect place for him, Hannah, Amy and Ephram to interact.
2) Delia's next passion? Is it gymnastics? Soccer? Or maybe something like art? Does her current antipathy toward Dougie mean that he's her next boyfriend?
3) I mentioned this on another thread, but what about Ephram's Season 1 "I don't see how anyone could just give up a baby"?
4) I thought momentarily that Amy talking about going off the Pill meant something, but Thank God that didn't happen. I couldn't stand another pregnancy drama, unless it involved Rose perhaps. Maybe as a result of their getting it on during The Reflex?
5) What about Hannah talking wistfully about finding that certain someone while gazing at a clueless Bright? Would a relationship with Bright keep her on the show? She could certainly help him get his life back on track. But, without Amy around next fall (college), I'm not seeing it.
Just a few mid-week bits to chew on.....

BepperGirl · 01-27-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilpen

Gaby. I would love to see that essay. You make an outstanding point about the hands for the Brown family. Delia playing hockey would definitely fall in line with that. Even basketball.

I found it. Other people on FB had some additional thoughts too. (The topic's {Hands and other symbols} now in their Storage Room.)

Hands seem to be very important on Everwood, particularly with the Brown men. The great Doctor Andy Brown was a neurosurgeon, requiring much usage of the hands and the control of them. This has continued through the generations. Ephram Brown, the son of the good doctor, is a great piano player, maybe even some kind of prodigy. Ephram is the latest generation so far but there is another generation that has yet to be spoken of. That of his grandfather, or Andy's father. In "The Miracle of Everwood", Joel Hurwitz makes a comment that Andy's father was an auto mechanic. Andy corrects by saying his dad was a "great auto mechanic. Best to Rhode Island. Best anywhere probably." Once again the Brown men have found their gift in the manifestation of hands. They have all used their hands differently but still they have used their hands and they have become the best in their chosen profession. This just proves that Ephram Brown will be, one day, a piano player and becoming the greatest so far. But will it be a classical pianist or a jazz pianist? That remains to be seen though Ephram's true passion seems to lie in the jazz. He has brought it up more than once. Even in Season 1 when he was still with the jerk Matthew Lansing as a teacher.

So what will come next? Or what came before? Does the Brown men and the importance of hands in their professional lives stretch beyond these three generations? These also remain to be seen and revealed but it sure seems as though it would be too much of a coincidence for hands happen for three CONSECUTIVE generations. What is it about the Browns' hands that make them so special?

Other thoughts brought up: Ephram's speech to Amy at the end of "The Last of Summer", Colin's fight with Ephram and Bright in "The Miracle of Everwood", Julia was a great cook, Dr. Hoffman (Ephram and Delia's grandpa on mother's side)was a pianist and surgeon, and here's what Minerva had to say (in March '04) after some research on Joseph Campbell:

Quote:

Hands are symbols of control or guidance. When we say, for example, that your father took you in hand, we mean that he took control of you, or placed you under his guidance, maybe to tell you what the rules are or to discipline you for misbehavior. Then, when we say that "your life is in your hands," we mean that you are in control now; it’s up to you how you live. Two little mythical stories or parables from Joseph Campbell show us how hands illustrate the choices we have in life.

In the first story, a knight is riding his horse along a road in search of adventure, love, and the good life, when he comes to a three-way fork in the road. Does he go left, right, or straight ahead? Fortunately for him, there is a pole in the center of the intersection with a large hand attached to it (like those signs you have seen that say "This way out"). This is a magic hand. The knight asks it, which way do I go? The hand points to the middle road and the knight rides off straight ahead. What does this mean? It means that on life’s journey, we have choices to make. If we are not sure which way to go, it is usually best to choose the middle course. It is like a compromise. But the question is: a compromise between what and what? What if the knight had gone left or right?

That brings us to the second story. Again a knight (maybe the same one) is riding his horse in search of love and the meaning of life. The reins are in his hands. When he pulls the reins taut, the horse obeys him (the horse is under his control). When he lets the reins go slack, the horse takes over and follows its own instincts. Horse and rider are really symbols of any individual’s life: when the reins are pulled taut, the individual is using his head (his brain or logical thinking) to control his direction. When the reins go slack, the individual is relying on his inner nature, his instincts, or his heart to guide him. The horse is the symbol here of the inner self, the natural person, which is found in your body (where your heart is). So the choices in life are either to follow your head or your heart. That theme is one of the big ones in Everwood.

What we see from these stories is that hands do not make the decisions that shape your life. They may guide you, but in the end, you decide for yourself whether to follow your head or your heart, or, if not sure, whether to balance the two by taking the middle course. When we say that Andy Brown works with his hands, we really don’t mean that his skill as a surgeon is actually in his hands: his hands only do what his brain tells them to. Hands are agents of your brain or your heart; they do what you will them to do.

In all of the myths and legends in Joseph Campbell’s work, the head or the brain is associated with the father figure and the body with the mother. Father’s presumably are the ones who know about society’s rules, the laws of the state and perhaps of the church. When you respond to the father in you, you respond to the system; you do what you are expected to do. Mothers, on the other hand, are associated with the body, perhaps because we are born out of our mother’s body, and she looks after all of our bodily needs in infancy. In mythology, mothers are the guides to the things of the body, including the heart, the soul, the instinct. So, when the rider pulls tight on the reins, he is responding to the father in him; when slack, to the mother.

Now look at Ephram’s little speech to Amy from "Last of Summer," above. Losing his mother is like breaking his hand – actually, it is his right hand, the hand that’s most important to him. His mother was his principal guide for years. Without her, he can call on his left hand a little (his father), but gradually it’s his body that takes over. Note that it is not his mind or his brain, but his body. The mother in him is the only thing that can replace the Mother who has died. Finding the mother in him, that is his heart and soul, is like finding the guide, the right hand, that she was to him.

Finally, let’s talk about Ephram the piano player. That’s about hands, isn’t it? Well actually it’s about how the hands respond to either the head or the heart. Do you remember when Ephram performed for the Julliard recruiter? Ephram performed Beethoven beautifully, but the recruiter complained that he didn’t keep his eyes on the page of music. The Julliard guy saw music as a thing of the mind; there is a system, and the player must follow it precisely. Now remember Ephram’s meeting with Will Cleveland who became his jazz teacher. Jazz does not come from the page, it comes from the soul, from the heart. Will tells Ephram that his playing is "too wooden; loosen your shoulders" (loosen the reins). To play jazz, you have to reach within. It is an entirely different concept of music. Heart versus head. And the hands respond to your will! Is it just a coincidence that the teacher’s name is Will?

~Gaby

smile16 · 01-27-2005, 11:34 AM

Did anybody notice in the Amy/Delia scene where Amy says sometimes you have to give up something big to move onto the next big thing (or something like that)...is that foreshadowing that she will give up Ephram for perhaps Princeton?

Just a thought...

Cathy

BepperGirl · 01-27-2005, 01:40 PM

Leslie Wing-Pomeroy. Waiting for confirmation but I think this is it.

Just wanted to tell ya'll now.

Gaby

**jediwands** · 01-27-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hard-Core GG Fan

Leslie Wing-Pomeroy. Waiting for confirmation but I think this is it.

Just wanted to tell ya'll now.

Gaby

Oh good, hopefully that ends the mystery.

You seriously rock, for all the hard work you do on your site.

Also.. OMG, Gaby.. Thank you, thank you, so, so much, for sharing that outstanding essay. I LOVE IT. I have literally read it three times already before posting this to you! It is absolutely mind blowing to read the content in that amazing essay. It's perfect! It literally defines so much about the main elements of Everwood, with Andy and Ephram at the center of it all. Words cannot even express how much I love that essay! See, I have a bachelor's degree in psychology/philosophy and I am currently working on my graduate degree in child psychology. As you can see, with my background and career path, it's plainly obvious how much I enjoyed reading that essay.

I have already printed out a copy of it for keeps. I even plan on sharing it with one of my college professors at school that also watches Everwood.

Thanks again for sharing it with me and everyone else. Outstanding stuff.

BepperGirl · 01-27-2005, 03:38 PM

No problem, I'm glad you like it so much. I don't remember what spurred me to write it about 10 months ago but I like its recognition.

You know, I've tried a few times to get a Psychology of Everwood (sort of like the Psychology of Roswell which I lurked on but never had the guts to really post something.. probably because I was a tween then) thread up and running but I haven't had many replies when I try. You might convince me to try it again.

Gaby

**jediwands** · 01-27-2005, 04:24 PM

OMG, heck yeah! I would be in heaven with a Psychology of Everwood thread.

I can tell you this much.. I would be posting on it quite a bit.

Not just because I'm a moderator, which pretty much means that I enjoy posting as well as keeping others involved, but also, because of how I know a thing or two about psychology, and most importantly, I love this field to the highest degree. And hopefully, having said all this, I could take a part in enabling others to also join in. Wow, that would be all kinds of interesting.

Convince you yet?

BepperGirl · 01-27-2005, 08:22 PM

Oh yeah. I'll work on a good opening post and post it tomorrow. BTW, I took Psychology two semesters when I was a sophomore in HS (only 2 years ago since I'm now a senior). One was movie-filled and the other was college level.

Gaby

The Maria · 01-27-2005, 09:50 PM

i actually liked this episode, not quite sure why but i did
i did also want to ring andy's neck with how he handled delia's first period, but i do think that they wrote the plot for delia wanting her mother very nicely
my english currently sucks, i'm sorry maybe i'll edit and try to explain what i mean later
-maria

**jediwands** · 01-28-2005, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hard-Core GG Fan

Oh yeah. I'll work on a good opening post and post it tomorrow. BTW, I took Psychology two semesters when I was a sophomore in HS (only 2 years ago since I'm now a senior). One was movie-filled and the other was college level.

Gaby

Awesome, Gaby. Can't wait.

BTW.. Wanted to let you know that at fanbolt, I'm "Sports."

BepperGirl · 01-28-2005, 11:08 AM

Oh, you're Sports, are you? Well, I think it's obvious who I am (Ephram's Girl) cuz the link to my site's right in my sig.

Here's the Psychology of Everwood thread linkage: http://www.fanforum.com/showthread.php?t=34186

Gaby

**jediwands** · 01-28-2005, 12:04 PM

LOL, Gaby. Yeah, I knew who you were over there. Hee. Yep, I'm Sports. I'm actually ticked that I didn't go by Wilpen over there, but oh well.

Yes, I already posted on your wonderful thread.

Thanks so much for brilliantly coming up with such an interesting topic. The possibilites are endless regarding things to discuss. Thanks again.

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Everwood > Episode Discussion: Ep #312- "Giving Up The Girl"