Fan Forum

Fan Forum (http://www.fanforum.com/)
-   Everwood (http://www.fanforum.com/f104/)
-   -   Episode Discussion: Ep #311- "Complex Guilt" (http://www.fanforum.com/f104/episode-discussion-ep-311-complex-guilt-33190/)

The Apt 01-14-2005 08:01 PM

Episode Discussion: Ep #311- "Complex Guilt"
 
from thewb.com

everwood: Complex Guilt

Fresh | monday | 9/8c

Following Amanda's (Anne Heche) decision to send her husband to a world-renowned treatment facility, Andy (Treat Williams) is rushed to the hospital after he collapses in front of Dr. Abbott (Tom Amandes) as a result of the stress and guilt he has been feeling over his infidelity with Amanda. Meanwhile, Amy (Emily VanCamp) continues to give Ephram (Gregory Smith) the cold shoulder for lying about Madison (Sarah Lancaster, who does not appear in the episode), and Edna (Debra Mooney) builds a writer's room for a depressed Irv (John Beasley), but it doesn't go over well and they consider separating.

Vivien Cardone, Chris Pratt, Stephanie Niznik, Merrilyn Gann and Scott Wolf star. John E. Pogue wrote the episode directed by Arvin Brown.

The Maria 01-14-2005 09:02 PM

Man looks like this episode might not be a happy one....they can't separate Edna and Irv or make Andy go to the hospital or greenie not talk! What is wrong with these writers, greg b come back!
-maria

MissCongeniality 01-15-2005 09:24 AM

:yay: A new episode. I'm not too happy that Irv and Edna are considering separation. I've loved how supportive they've been of each other and how they worked through him getting fired. I hope they can work things out.

Pace & Jo 01-15-2005 10:00 PM

:woot: I'm just happy that we finally get a new episode. It's been too long.

The Apt 01-15-2005 11:03 PM

Lisa, it really has been too long. It seems like forever! So, so excited for Monday night!

I also agree, Candace. Edna/Irv concern me. I hope it's not the beginning of the end for them. I sincerely hope they work things out and get through the rough waters.

MAKRO 01-17-2005 06:55 AM

Where's The Joy?
 
As we FINALLY reach the end of an excruciatingly long hiatus, I would like to cast my single vote towards the direction of the remainder of the season which starts with tonight's new episode.
There was a hugely dramatic scene in "Till Death Do Us Part" in Season 1 when Dr. Brown takes his emotional pain (alone) to Rev. Keyes' church and pleads with God to give him back his joy. One of the many things which I have found affecting about Everwood since the beginning is that the writers and producers understand that, while life is hard and everyone suffers hardship, unhappiness, and pain at times (all needed for dramatic effect), it also offers us moments of triumph, wonder, ecstasy, humor, and joy. In order to convey these varying emotions they created a remarkable cast of characters so compelling that we suffer the painful and/or awkward moments in their lives, along with their blemishes, and still find ourselves rooting for them to experience life's joys and satisfactions in at least equal measures. The effectiveness of the story mavens in creating and maintaining the balance between the good times and bad times for each character has made each of them believable and, at the same time, provided us viewers with the pleasure of seeing people we care about experience the highs along with the lows.
What I find very disconcerting is that Everwood, hopefully temporarily, has lost it's joy. At this particular moment, there isn't a single major character on the show who is happy. Amy and Ephram are fighting. Andy is overwhelmed with stress and guilt about Madisongate and his relationship with Amanda. Harold is carrying the stress of his knowledge about Madison and hiding it from Amy and Rose. Bright sees himself (with help from his father) as a failure. Irv and Edna are facing a potentially fatal challenge to their marriage. Nina is angry at herself for her lack of courage in telling Andy about her feelings. Hannah is carrying the burden of her potential illness along with her torch for Bright. Delia is feeling the lack of a mother figure and facing uncertainty about boys and becoming a woman.
Okay, Everwood is a drama; I get that. But, come on.... don't these characters we care so much for, and by extension we viewers, deserve some joy? Do the unhappiness and stress have to be so relentless for all of them? In reviewing the Season 1 DVD's it always seemed that moments of angst and crisis were always offset by moments of happiness or at least comic relief, no matter how small. I saw those moments both as a reward for a favorite character and for myself as a viewer. I'm not happy when absolutely EVERYBODY is unhappy (that must have been a crappy Christmas).
So, here's my vote: let's see the joy return. Give us more happiness, joy, tenderness, laughter, and love; and less relentless stress and sorrow. The characters deserve it, and so do we. It will help both them and us weather the inevitable upcoming crises required to enforce the drama.

The Apt 01-17-2005 07:40 AM

For me, I think that the show has lost its humor. That is the biggest change I have seen that completely irritates me. Think about in season 1 whenever Ephram shows up at the hospital to be there for Amy during Colin's surgery. We had the classic twix convo. It was the brilliant comic relief that propelled the characters, as well as the fans to get through the tough drama of past seasons and season 3 seems to have lost that in a big way. Even during the times that they tried to lighten up some scenes in this season, I feel like they have failed miserably.

With everything, you need balance, and while we all know that Everwood is all about drama, it has always been known for its classic comic relief in balancing some of the heavy storylines. That is virtually non-existent right now and I find that extremely disappointing. Where is Ephram's wit? Long gone.

MissCongeniality 01-17-2005 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKRO
So, here's my vote: let's see the joy return. Give us more happiness, joy, tenderness, laughter, and love; and less relentless stress and sorrow. The characters deserve it, and so do we. It will help both them and us weather the inevitable upcoming crises required to enforce the drama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilpen
For me, I think that the show has lost its humor. That is the biggest change I have seen that completely irritates me.

It's funny that you should say yhis because I was over at the wb.com this morning and Treat was saying that he wanted the comedy to be brought back to the show. I don't think he's happy with the direction Andy has been taken in, which means he's in the same boat with all of the viewers.

Random Rant

I got into the show because of how the seriousness and the humor was balanced. This season everybody's crying about something. It's getting draining to watch and it will be hard to keep viewers if the show keeps going the way it is. Hopefully this new year will be lighter, and we'll have more in the department of storyline development.

smoothaise 01-17-2005 03:37 PM

Here's to hoping that they bring some actually drama for these episodes. I wanna see some drama! The commerical looks like we'll see some, but its too soon to tell.

MissCongeniality 01-17-2005 03:47 PM

Kenny, I love your sig. :D

The Apt 01-17-2005 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissCongeniality
It's funny that you should say yhis because I was over at the wb.com this morning and Treat was saying that he wanted the comedy to be brought back to the show. I don't think he's happy with the direction Andy has been taken in, which means he's in the same boat with all of the viewers.

Random Rant

Thanks so much for posting that, Candace. :) Wow, I wasn't aware of the Treat comments. Maybe, just maybe, his voice will get to Berlanti & Co. so changes can be made. And you're right, I certainly don't think he likes the direction that Andy has been going and I'm so glad that he agrees with the viewers. Hopefully changes will be made accordingly.

Quote:

I got into the show because of how the seriousness and the humor was balanced. This season everybody's crying about something. It's getting draining to watch and it will be hard to keep viewers if the show keeps going the way it is. Hopefully this new year will be lighter, and we'll have more in the department of storyline development.
Exactly. The balance of drama/humor is exactly what attracted me to this show. You're so right about everyone crying about something this season. It's getting so draining and I'm shocked that the ratings have been as good as they have been, considering. I do believe that if they keep up with this formula, however, ratings will drop. Comic relief better start surfacing and there desperately needs more movement in storylines or else I would wager a guess that they won't be so lucky with the ratings in due time.

smoothaise 01-17-2005 07:03 PM

Ok, the "Previously On Everwood" was a good thing to have, because I actually forgot most of what happened during the first half. :lol:

So typical to start the show off with an Ephram/Amy scene. But ... I did like her comment that it was "Desperate Coffee". And apparently, she probably did want to do that, because she gave it up to be with Ephram. And obviously, Ephram doesn't realize that the girl needs her space. Although, I am enjoying them more apart, then together :lol: Because I miss him pining for her like he did in the first season. Ahh ... :sigh: Season One.
-----------
Ok ... I think I have never been more conflicted with a main character then when Carrie Bradshaw had an affair with Mr. Big while dating Aidan. The idea of the main character being the "bad guy" is rather intriguing, and makes for great drama.

I feel so bad for Irv, but I think my sympathy is leaning towards Edna because he's putting her in this funk. I hope they figure out a happy medium.

Amy and Hannah's scene with the "Sex and the City" tbs marathon, :lol: But, she's right. And I'm glad there still mentioning Hannah's disease.

The scene with Andy/Amanda was hard to watch. Im glad she's leaving for a while, and she's done with him, but what Andy must feel. The flashbacks were a nice touch.
-----------------
I'm glad to see Bright/Ephram friends again. I think that was one of the things I missed the most this season. To see that again, was cool. And I think Bright's right. I don't wanto to believe him, but he might be.

Wow, Edna bought Irv an office. But, something tells me it's not enough. Is it just me or did he look confused as hell when he saw the laptop. :lol:

The dinner scene was great! Chicken Cordon Bleu with Potato Salad. Amy's hostility and coldness was great. I liked when she said "2 idiots for the price of one".

And then the scene w/ Andy and Harold, so much agression and concern. And then Andy ... :thud: Wow! :eek: I hope he's ok. There was blood.
-------------------
How funny was Jake with the balloons, and the yoga. :lol:

Poor Edna/Irv, I had a feeling that wasn't going to be enough. Its funny, because Edna/Irv have the same relationship as A/E if you think about it. Irv has nothing, so does Amy. Edna has family, life, a job, and Ephram has his music, etc. It's weird to see that comparrison with the two couples.

The E/A argument outside the house was done beautifully, and I agreed with Amy. She did give up everything, and 85% of the time she was in the music room w. Ephram. Now, she realizes that she should have had a backup plan. Thankfully Ephram sent the application, so we know what that will lead to. She'll have ab Ephramless option.

Andy and Ephram's scene in he hospital was another scene that just blew me away. I like that Ephram knew what was going on, and didn't blow up over it. He;s become quite mature over the years. In the past, he would have overreacted.
------------------
Hannah and Bright - Yeah! I wanna see this happen. "That is one good looking sandwich".

Poor Edna/Irv, what a way to end that couple. I wonder if there seperation is temporary. I hope so.

E/A - I'm glad she apologized because it wasn't his fault, but I have a feeling there relationship is going to go down hill now, with Amy getting other things done, and meeting new people. Im happy to see them reconcile though, because Ephram loves her so much, and her being cold to him was killing him.

Andy and Amanda - A very weird way to end the episode with them. I like that he brought up that Julia had an affair and how it made him feel. And how h said it wouldn't be a fair fight. Because ... um, it wouldn't. :lol:
----------------
Previews - Mr. Green from Dawson's Creek is her dance teacher! Wow ... Jake's girlfriend is back. She was on 'Tru Calling'. And poor Amy, being knocked down by both her father and her dance teacher about being a ballerina. I wonder though if she truly wants to be a dancer, and just feels she has no passion in her life.

~AnastasiaGrey~ 01-17-2005 08:03 PM

This episode was better than what i was expecting, i have to admit it had my palms sweating on whats going to happen . Some of the stuff i wasnt expecting to happen happen....

Andy: I was glad that he was ok, though i pretty much know how it started. All the stress he had to endure over the past year had to be hard for him, maybe this should be a wake up call for him about everything that has been stressing him out, e.g amanda, madison..

Irv/edna: This is what i wasnt expecting because i thought it was there usual fight i didnt think it would lead to this, i hope that with time apart they could work things out with each other. I really enjoy them as a couple.

Amanda/Andy are annoying me to know end, andy was this close to ending things with amanda and here is getting swept into it again. :rolleyes: does andy ever learn. and what about amanda she is just as bad doing that while her husband is sick. grr the nerve.

Last but not least Amy/ephrum

I thought the dinner scene and the talk outside was going to be the end of them. Because the mood seem to made it seem it like that. I was glad that they made up, amy realizing that she was pretty much given up her life and activties for ephrum and that wasnt fair for her to do, and i am glad that ehprum realizes this. i wish a kiss could of came out of this but oh well. But back to their argument the way it was tense up like i have a feeling its more coming then what we saw of these two tonight.

The Apt 01-17-2005 08:26 PM

Wow.. I have so many thoughts running through my mind after watching this episode that I feel like I need to let it all sink in, and then I will post everything tomorrow.

But, for now, I will mention a few brief things..

Edna/Irv.. All about sadness.
Andy/Amanda.. All about disgusting.
Ephram/Bright.. Friends again! Love them.
Amy/Hannah.. Adorable friendship.
Bright/Hannah.. Close friends? Upcoming romance? Bring it on! All about cuteness.
Ephram/Andy.. FINALLY, an emotional scene between them!

Ephram/Amy.. This couple makes me melt no matter what is going on with them. Even though I was spoiled, I was finding myself tense and scared that Amy was going to break up with him. LOL Just goes to show how much I love this couple. I have lots to say about them, but for now, I'll just say that Amy's coldness to Ephram was deserving and I completely appreciated and agreed with how she wants to bring back other things in her life, etc. I loved how Ephram genuinely was in pure panic mode at the prospect of losing Amy. It showed in spades how in love with her he really is. Oh, and sounding like a broken record.. Greg/Emily's chemistry together never ceases to amaze me. Pure perfection.

Anyway, those are my short, instant thoughts right now. I will come back tomorrow for a more in depth analysis of the episode. :)

MissCongeniality 01-17-2005 08:35 PM

:( I messed up and forgot to set the VCR so I missed this one. Sounds like I missed a good one. Thanks for helping me paint a picture though...Wow, this is the first Everwood I've missed since I started watching. Very sad. I'm looking forward to the in depth analysis.:)
Quote:

Previews - Mr. Green from Dawson's Creek is her dance teacher!
When I read this, I laughed because I've been spoiled and I just couldn't see him in that role. Then I remembered an episode of Friends in which he played a dance instructor. I love Obba Babatunde so I think he can pull it off. I really do feel bad for Amy. She dropped her whole life to support Ephram's dream and now it's biting her in the butt. I'm glad it was finally brought up though, because it was annoying the heck outta me.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2017.
Copyright © 1998-2017, Fan Forum.