everwoodfan52

Alexa

i liked seeing Bright and Ephram hang out .

OMG Paul WESLEY!!!! I love him so much now so maybe I’ll have a new appreciation for Tommy. Paul looks so different here. So young. And I don't love him in the "bad guy" roles so we'll see how long this appreciation lasts. He obviously isnt bad yet.

I will say I think his intro was way too quick though. She could have just met him in this episode and then the following episode saw him at the party etc. They went way too fast with it. And they already kissed? And it frustrated me that Amy was all about hanging out with him and kissing him and starting to like him so easily when she put Ephram through the ringer and pushed away her feelings for him...

The MA scene would have been cute if it wasn't creepy. I mean, I realize they are only 4 years apart and in the future FINE they could date but theres a big difference between 16 and 20! UGH. Like, she could even admit she had feelings for him and they could remain flirty friends, but crossing that intimate line is just so icky. They just LOOK weird together, he looks so young next to her...

Andy was a bit ridiculous this episode doing all that stuff for Linda. To me it felt a bit OOC and top of that, she told him to stop and he still went and sang that song, it was annoying to me! Like, if she really wasn't interested in him that would be borderline stalking?

I hate the lack of A/E interaction in this episode and not just because of a romantic sense, but because it takes away from the show and makes everything feel so separated. I hate that Ephrams been stuck with Madison and now Amy will be stuck with Tommy. Sigh.

everwoodfan52

I love those two together! One of my favorite couples on the show!

I honestly had a difficult time appreciating the character Tommy at all. I guess I just saw him as a replacement for Ephram, and I saw him as almost getting Amy killed, and eventually (in a later episode) mocking her for wanting to go back to her family.
Ephram really was an innocent baby compared to Madison at this point.

I kind of thought it was sweet. He didn't give up! And I love the song he sang to her.

They were living two separate lives for most of this season, which wasn't fun.

jediwands

Bang on. You summed it up perfectly. This is why I will never agree with people who say they were only four years apart. That has nothing to do with it in a general sense. You said it, it is all about how big of a difference it is between a 16-year-old boy and a 20-year-old girl/woman. Thus, all about the specific ages they were at the time. A four year age difference when they're in their mid to late 20s is completely different compared to a 16-year-old boy with a 20-year-old. It is just gross on every level. So true how weird they look together too. Ephram looks so young. This was absolutely intentional too. Berlanti wanted us to note how weird and gross they look together. We are absolutely not supposed to look at them and think this is a healthy situation.

You analyze things so nicely. Another great observation. Again, I think this was deliberate on Berlanti's end. He knew if Ephram/Amy were anywhere near each other, it would water down and lessen their other relationships. The Ephram/Amy story and Greg/Emily chemistry was way too strong so he had to separate until he was ready to get Ephram/Amy together at the end of season 2.

Alexa

if I were Linda, and i had gone to a man about not pursuing me because i wasnt interested and then he went and sang a song on my porch i would probably call the police. Im not joking. Its just gross to me. When someone says no you need to listen to them and leave them alone. I didnt find it sweet at all. I know its andy and we know him and love him, and we know that Linda actually did have feelings for him, so we were supposed to, like you, find the whole thing cute. But I cant help looking at it objectively. Maybe because Ive been in a situation where a guy couldnt handle me saying I wasn't interested.

And I dont remember anything about Tommy's storyline really. Or anything on the show TBH except little things, so like I said, it will take time for me to HATE Tommy. His intro episode wasnt bad.



And again, had it been a 16 old girl and 20 year old man, I mean, how would that have gone over on not only the show with Andy, but with the general audience?


Thank you . And I believe you, I think they didnt want EA to interact because they were intending to stall that storyline again but man, a few scenes here and there would have been nice.

jediwands

Exactly. I don't like the double standard at all. Ephram was extremely vulnerable and fragile during this time period, too. He's still mourning the loss of his mom, still adjusting a bit to his new surroundings, hurt over the fact that he can't be with Amy. It certainly doesn't matter that he's a guy and not a girl. It doesn't matter whether it's a 16-year-old girl or a 16-year-old boy. That 20 year old is an adult and it's simply not right

Totally. It's really tough watching most of season two due to the lack of Ephram/Amy scenes. The payoff is great at the end of season 2 but like you said, we could have received more scenes before this time. I think one theme of the season is "the wrong significant others" for three main characters in Andy, Ephram, and Amy. Linda, Madison and Tommy weren't the right ones for them and Berlanti played this up. Even so, Ephram/Amy are a significant part of the show... even THE heart of the show. We should have gotten more scenes between them.

secretk

Season 2 was the toughest for me to watch because of two reasons. First was Amy's depression which was depicted quite realistically, but this also made it difficult to watch. And then there is the lack of Amy/Ephram scenes.

I agree with you that the theme of Season 2 was to show the wrong pairings, but maybe the contrast would have worked out better if they also showed scenes with the right ones for some sort of comparison.

jediwands

Totally agree with you.

Season 2 is not for the weak, that is for sure!

Yes, comparing and contrasting the wrong pairings with the right pairings would have worked out much better in season 2. That would have been ideal.

Alexa

I feel like shows do this a lot. Essentially the whole story on Life Unexpected was that way, with keeping baze and the cate apart, who then finally got together on the series finale. . and i also feel like oth did it in its second season with BL being together. LP barely had scenes. Its just annoying to em when shows do that though, it just looks like they completely forgot about a core relationship! In actuality they are probably try to wait for the right time but its irritating. Its storytelling i will never understand.


exactly! showing what is wrong is fine but i agree that it'd be way more successful showing what is right.

Season 2 so far has been great, but just doesnt really compare to season 1 for me. It has the same sort of feel and there are nice storylines and messages, but I miss some of the key relationships. Where the heck has freaking Nina been? She's barely in season 2!

jediwands

That's the very reason why I dislike season 2 OTH so much. Abandoning Lucas/Peyton just because you need to attempt to make Brooke/Lucas believable is not okay. Lucas/Peyton was established as the core relationship of OTH in season 1. Comet. Then they were pushed aside in season 2 because they were too strong and Mark felt the need for a detour. I didn't like that, the storytelling makes zero sense.

Alexa

yeah to this day i still hate that season 2 did that to them and i still dont really understand it.

secretk

Well it will sound bad, but maybe this shows the capabilities of the writer. I do think that for writer it's easy to separate the main couple and pair them with others while having no scenes between the main ones compared to show them with others and still have them interact with each other. The latter is more difficult to do because it calls for subtlety. And that's something that no all writers know how to do and not all actors know how to play.

In Everwood I do believe that Emily and Greg had the chops to act this way, they just didn't have the opportunity in Season 2 to do it. Compared to Season 4 where they had. I mean sure Ephram was few episodes with Stefanie and Amy was with Reid, but we still had plenty scenes between Amy and Ephram and this worked out far better.

jediwands

Me too. When I do rewatches I just skip season 2. It's better for my blood pressure, lol.

jediwands

That's really true.

I hate to admit this but Dawson's Creek did better at times with this. Dawson/Joey still had scenes together when they were just friends. Not a ton but the dynamic wasn't completely ignored when they were with other people. You saw jealousy and their connection no matter what. Of course the new showrunners ended up destroying everything in the end.

Given the high quality of writing on Everwood, especially with Berlanti largely involved in season 2, you would have assumed he'd easily be able to write Ephram/Amy scenes even if they were with other people rather easily. He was even involved with Dawson's Creek and understood how it worked on that show too. I guess he just wanted it a certain way with his Everwood. It's also possible he learned so much from Dawson's Creek he was going to change things up and do it much differently so things weren't destroyed. I really do believe Berlanti felt like Ephram/Amy around each other in season 2 while they were with Tommy and Madison would have watered down those other relationships... or more watered down since many felt like those relationships were set up to look flawed and bad from the start. I strongly feel like Berlanti thought if he would have given Ephram/Amy more scenes together in early season 2, he would have had to get them together around mid-season 2 as a result and he wasn't ready for them just yet. He wanted that last part of season 2 to be dedicated to Ephram/Amy.

Alexa

I do genuinely thinks he writers felt it was just a "break" of those couples and planned to go back to them. In their eyes it was natural for those couples to have distance. But what they fail to think about is how long the audience has to wait between episodes and when you stop giving a pairing interaction the audience tends to forget/stop caring about them.