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Old 04-26-2005, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Martina Glover
As bad as I felt for Ephram, Amy totally stole the show. Emily Vancamp is one amazing actress!
I totally agree, Emily VanCamp really deserves an emmy like, now! She has been absolutly amazing since surprise, all those episodes scream emmy to me. She is just so amazing, her eyes in this episode said it all. I think the same look was on my face when Ephram told Amy she wasn't as importnat. Seriously same face as Emily made, pure perfection!
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Old 04-26-2005, 01:47 PM
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Just finished the episode.

Ok, I have to say ... I don't hate Ephram. I think he is reacting the way I thought he would. And Amy telling Ephram she knew ... was a mistake on her part. And then backing it up with "but it was for your own good ... there was more important stuff" that just didn't help matters. Ephram is broken and conflicted right now. I don't blame him. He doesn't want to be home, he's looking for answers, and his passion is gone. I wonder what is going to become of him in the next few episodes.

I think we all expected the Amy/Ephram break-up ... and poor Amy. She is an amazing person ... but Ephram isn't like he used to be ... and she was willing to stick it out with him. That to me was remarkable.

Andy Brown I used to sympathize with, but now he has become the villain. I liked that the writers dealt with Delia's MIA for the season. They are very good at that. Her blow-up to Andy was great, and expected.

Hannah and her whole quest for God ... bored me to tears. Topher is as interesting as drywall.

Bright/Hannah's argument about God I enjoyed. I hope these two realize they have something there. And then Delia can be jealous ... and thus, a triangle.

Nina/Jake - I enjoyed them, but Andy certainly didn't. I think right now, Andy needs to stay away from Nina, until he sorts everything out. He is so lost right now.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:20 PM
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So..

Creepy stalker Topher..

How did he know?

*cues violins of DOOM*
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:34 PM
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Glad i'm not the only one Topher is hiding something so is Jake never trust ANYONE who smiles that much.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:36 PM
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Great posts, everyone. I thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. Okay, I'll give some of mine, now.

Ephram: Part of me felt for him and the other part wanted to strangle him. Ephram's world has been turned upside down in a huge way. What a shock this poor guy is having to endure.. But, I do feel like he was quite over the top at times where his brain was somehow taken out of his head. Sure, most guys would literally be jumping for joy that the responsibility of conceiving a child, and dealing with the repercussions of that was taken care of. Not Ephram, and that's what I love about this guy. But, what troubles me a bit is his inability to even conjure up any rational thinking right now. Even a shred. I don't doubt that his huge dream for a career in piano was never ultimately about desperately needing Juilliard, so that doesn't totally bother me, but what does is how he didn't even give Amy so much as an ounce of appreciation for her busting her ass to get him another audition. What also bothers me is how he is allowing to let Amy, his true love, this amazing girl that has stuck by him and only wants the best for him, to slip away. This is the same girl that he has loved intensely for three, whole years.

So, while I more than understand Ephram's pain and anger, the way that he treated Amy in this episode did not allow me to sympathize with him one bit. Amy is the best thing that has ever happened to him and throughout his brain falling off from time to time in this episode, I would still have thought that he would never forget this. I still love Ephram and I know that his actions were fueled by his painful discovery of the Andy/Madison betrayals but I can't say that I agreed with his every action, tonight.

My heart did break for him whenever he found out about the "father unknown" bit. Hmm, why on earth did Madison put that on there? Was it to further the cruel behavior or was it because she honestly doesn't know who the father is? At this point, I don't think we can rule anything out.

Amy: You blow me away. What a beauty this girl is, both inside and out. EVC was phenomenal, as usual. Damn, this girl is talented. Amy should be thinking about prom, college, a future with Ephram, etc. And yet, she was dealt the bad cards of having to take on the stuff that Ephram is dealing with and she attempted to help Ephram anyway possible because of her love for him. Her "assface" comment was classic! I felt every shred of pain that Emily was giving as Amy. Emily, how you don't have an Emmy by now is beyond me. If this show were on any other network, I believe that you would have one, for sure.

Delia: Damn, that Vivien Cardone is one great, little actress! Maybe Emily and Vivien read lines together or something? lol Delia rocked as she called out her father. Andy was clueless as ever in relating to her.

Andy: Still not feeling anything remotely positive with him. All I have to say is his jealousy towards Jake/Nina secretly makes me happy. He deserves to feel some pain.

Hannah: I still love this girl, but the church bit did have me a bit bored, and this is coming from a Catholic that also frets about certain things. lol You can so tell that Topher is the transitional guy before B/H get together.

Bright/Hannah: Love these two! I loved their fight and I can totally see both of them mutually falling for each other right now. I can't wait to see how things develop for these two.

Ephram/Andy: It's very obvious to me that these two wil be estranged for quite some time. Ephram almost sounded a "calm/scary" whenever he said that he was going to be leaving soon.

My last thought on E/A in general.. I love these two so much, but I feel like a break is so warranted for these two. I hate saying this because I wish there was another way but I don't see it. There are just way too many things to deal with right now and I almost feel like they are in need of being apart romantically for a while so they can both individually deal with things on their own and whenever they come back together, they will be stronger than ever. The saying of, "sometimes love just isn't enough" rings true for these two. They are both desperately and completely in love with each other but that's the very reason of why I think THEY NEED a break.. Because whenever they come back together, it will be better than ever for these two.

Overall, great episode, Wow, season 3 does seem to be ending with a bang.

Last edited by jediwands; 04-26-2005 at 04:02 PM
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Old 04-27-2005, 06:27 PM
  #36
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I agree about never ruling anything out........especially on a TV show. lol But, I don't think there's anything "more" behind Madison writing father unknown on the birth certificate or form or whatever it was that they were referring to (sorry I will have to go back and hear the exact wording). I can only imagine how Ephram felt when he heard that. However, I don't think Madison was doing it out of cruelty or because she didn't know who the father was, etc. I know from experience that if you want to give a baby up for adoption you have to have the father's consent unless you claim you don't know who it is (there are a couple of other exceptions too). Since she wasn't going to tell Ephram it makes sense that she claimed the father was unknown to get around getting his consent.

I lurk on the episode discussion threads on this board all the time because I love reading all your thoughts on each episode. Everwood is such a wonderful show and continues to amaze me. I agree that Emily and Greg as well are both teriffic young actors. Emily knocked this episode out of the park.
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Old 04-28-2005, 03:29 AM
  #37
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Ok, here are my thoughts about the episode:

Epram: I might be the only one but i totally understand him.What's happening to him is terrible. I don't get how people think he can get over it.We are talking about a child here not about a piece of luggage!! I understand why he chose not to go to his audition, i would have done the same. All this piano stuff would make me sick. Everybody lied to him: Madison, Andy, Harold, Edna and Amy.You can't just move on.Everyone is saying it was to protect him, but couldn't they think about the outcome ? If you do, how can you think it was for the best?

And what is the big deal about having a child when you're young? It's not the end of the world.It's difficult but you can make it. Plus even if you have to drop out from school, it doesn't mean that you can't go later.Your future is still ahead.
Everyone says E is still a child but nobody let him prove he is not anymore.

And when E was at the child placement services and said "my son", OMG, my heart... !!!

Amy: I don't like her with E so the break up (if there is) didn't do much to me.I prefer them as friends. Everyone feels sorry for A, but i don't really do. She said she'd help E but i felt she said it because she had to as she is his girlfriend but didn't really mean it, not concerning the baby: the face she made when E told her he wanted to find him, then telling him Juilliard was more important that his OWN child. Come on A, there is no competition between you and the baby. He won't love him more than you because it's not the same love but it's normal to put the baby first, he is his own flesh and blood. As you said "i don't know what it feels like to be you right now" so don't try to push him away from his child. A has to choose a side and stick to it. And why didn't she talk about it with E before trying to get the audition? Why didn't she tell him she knew right when he got back? Can't all these people talk to each other? Everyone said it was bad lying but they still do it. Do they ever learn? I agree it must be hard for A but not as hard as it is for E.

Some people say E lied to A as well as he sent the application form to Princeton.To me it quite different.We're talking about college, not a human life and A has a choice, nobody can force her to go, it's still up to her.

I liked it when she said:"grow a heart, assface!" and i like EVC's acting.

Delia: I like her, poor thing! i'm glad she told A what she felt. And then again she doesn't know anything. Good choice not to tell her!! Doesn't she ask questions?

Hannah / Bright : I like them both, they could make a nice couple.I don't like Topher, i don't think he is right for H. I hope this thing with God isn't going to last. I thought she looked great at that lunch table. B is so sweet and funny.

I was surprised at Nina's reaction.I thought she would not be that nice to A.

I'm done for now, sorry it was that long.

Last edited by elektra34; 04-28-2005 at 04:05 AM
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Old 04-28-2005, 06:11 PM
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I dont know, i feel as though things have shifted for ephrum and amy and its not good.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:36 AM
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I totally agree with your post Elektra34! I don't understand all this sympathy that everyone is pouring out to poor Amy. It's not about Amy. This is about Ephram's baby that no one bothered to tell him about. Everyone made decisions for him because they all felt they knew what was best for him. It looks like they were all wrong. Amy is not thinking about Ephram She's doing what she always does - thinks about Amy. It's like she's trying to get this situation over and done with so they can go with their life. We wouldn't want anything to interfere with it. Ephram has a right to be concerned about his son that he may never see and who was given away with his knowledge or consent. If Amy ever loved him she wouldn't have kept the information from him. They all say they love him but not enough to tell him the truth.

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Old 05-02-2005, 02:01 PM
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anirishlass.. Please don't tell me that you are in any way comparing the Andy/Madison betrayals to Amy not wanting to tell him right before his audition? Totally different and not EVEN CLOSE to being the same.
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Old 05-03-2005, 06:33 AM
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Wilpen: I never compared Amy to Madison or Andy's betrayal in my post. What I did say was that if Amy ever loved Ephram she wouldn't have lied to him. Everybody always says they want to protect the person they love but if the shoes were on the other feet I wonder how they would feel.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:47 PM
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the episode was just.... i love fallouts with characters. so much angst comes out! where to begin....

Bright/Hannah: Oh how I've missed my ketchup kids They are just so adorable. Everything they do. Why haven't they kissed yet It's getting annoying. Bright obviously likes her more than a friend. And we know how Hannah feels, we have for a long time. Him reaching over her in the kitchen, I about died, I can only imagine how many fuzzy feelings Hannah had about it And what's this thing with Hannah's fourth grade diary? I think that's so cute. It's awesome! He's reading her inner most thoughts when she was just a kid. Their conversation about why God spared her with not getting the disease and basically her dad dying was pretty important. And that it was with Bright was more important. Bright is really intelligent with her and doesn't act like a goofball, he's actually very cute And how many vegetables do you think Hannah would eat before she thinks God is repaid?

Jake/Nina/Andy/Delia And what is it with this awkwardness of Andy wanting Nina and Jake to paint Delia's room. I think it's pure jealousy. It's so obvious that ever since Jake told Andy about Nina's feelings for him he's been really different. And this shows it. I loved that Delia is stepping up and saying something about Andy's parenting. It's odd that Ephram can't get far enough away from Andy, but Delia can't seem to find the time to get in one activity with Andy and it just be the two of them. I like the new father rule though, very effective. I just hate that Delia always feels disincluded. And it's not becuase Ephram's older, that's just a petty excuse. It's not because Ephram's older, Ephram is just dealing with a lot of things. I think some of them have to do with Madison and Andy's attempt to keep it quiet and keep Ephram happy with his music and getting him to Julliard. Delia is just as important too. And I think since she went with the flow of things for so long that Andy was just used to Delia being okay with everything. Well not anymore! Delia...you rock! And is there really a color called Robin's Egg Blue? That's getting a bit detailed, even for Berlanti!

Ephram: And yet another heartbreaking moment for Ephram. I just can't get over how an entire adoption goes through without anyone but the mother her doctor knowing about it. And Ephram is like stabbed in the gut everytime he tries to take a step forward and get some information. The nurse could fully see that Ephram had great inentions and just wanted to meet his son, get to see what he looked like, to make sure he was okay. And because of crappy people, he can't do that. And it sucks and it cannot be okay, this situation, IMO, can never just be okay.

Andy/Nina: Again, Nina with the advice. She kicks major Everwood booty! She called Andy on his ways. He's fighting with everyone else, trying to make everything right because he can't begin to make things right with Ephram. Ephram is right and has a right to cut Andy out of his life. Andy has done so many things to put them at odds and Ephram's son was the last straw. It's one thing to take the piano away, take the car away. Those things can be replaced. But Ephram knowing his little boy, nothing can replace that. Ask Nina, she almost had to give up her son to her crappy gay and lying about it husband, we know his name....jerk. anywho...

Amy/Ephram: I did love Amy's conversation with the music dude from Colorado (or was it Julliard?) Calling him an assface...classic. I love Amy and her boldness! But for Ephram to just want to leave and not consider the fact that he might get in? It's okay to be mad at Andy, I welcome that. But this is Ephram's dream. He's so stubborn that he's willing to let go of the one gift that he's ben given. But it all came down when Amy, unaware, spilled that she knew. But it wasn't like she had a responsibility to tell him. That ship sailed in season 2. I just hate how Ephram's trust, once again, has been broken by...Madison and the pregnancy. It's insane how one thing can screw with everyone's lives. I just hate how Ephram just kicked her out of his life. How a relationship that is so propserous could end in like two sentences. Especially one that's so meant to be

Hannah/Topher: Maybe because I'm just so pro Bright/Hannah, but I just don't like Topher. I don't think he really gets Hannah at all. Hannah, on the exterior seems like the normal girl at County High. But Hannah has so much more going on than anyone could ever comprehend. I think Topher isn't good for her because he just doesn't get it. He doesn't have the depth that her core group of friends have that understands. Does anyone think that Topher would drop everything to go with Hannah to visit her dad. I don't know if that ever happens, Hannah visiting her dad and we see it, but I see Bright doing it, never thinking twice. Amy/Bright/Ephram have seen life as a real world, Topher, I don't think has. He's just....a kid But props to her for asking Topher out on a date after saying she's not brave. I mean, it's a stepping stone. First Topher, then Bright

Delia/Andy: I find it reassuring that Delia did forgive Andy and went into the world of the IM land and explained to him who liked who and told Andy who she liked. Delia was always a charmer Like her mom.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:48 AM
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the episode was just.... i love fallouts with characters. so much angst comes out! where to begin....

Bright/Hannah: Oh how I've missed my ketchup kids They are just so adorable. Everything they do. Why haven't they kissed yet It's getting annoying. Bright obviously likes her more than a friend. And we know how Hannah feels, we have for a long time. Him reaching over her in the kitchen, I about died, I can only imagine how many fuzzy feelings Hannah had about it And what's this thing with Hannah's fourth grade diary? I think that's so cute. It's awesome! He's reading her inner most thoughts when she was just a kid. Their conversation about why God spared her with not getting the disease and basically her dad dying was pretty important. And that it was with Bright was more important. Bright is really intelligent with her and doesn't act like a goofball, he's actually very cute And how many vegetables do you think Hannah would eat before she thinks God is repaid?

Jake/Nina/Andy/Delia And what is it with this awkwardness of Andy wanting Nina and Jake to paint Delia's room. I think it's pure jealousy. It's so obvious that ever since Jake told Andy about Nina's feelings for him he's been really different. And this shows it. I loved that Delia is stepping up and saying something about Andy's parenting. It's odd that Ephram can't get far enough away from Andy, but Delia can't seem to find the time to get in one activity with Andy and it just be the two of them. I like the new father rule though, very effective. I just hate that Delia always feels disincluded. And it's not becuase Ephram's older, that's just a petty excuse. It's not because Ephram's older, Ephram is just dealing with a lot of things. I think some of them have to do with Madison and Andy's attempt to keep it quiet and keep Ephram happy with his music and getting him to Julliard. Delia is just as important too. And I think since she went with the flow of things for so long that Andy was just used to Delia being okay with everything. Well not anymore! Delia...you rock! And is there really a color called Robin's Egg Blue? That's getting a bit detailed, even for Berlanti!

Ephram: And yet another heartbreaking moment for Ephram. I just can't get over how an entire adoption goes through without anyone but the mother her doctor knowing about it. And Ephram is like stabbed in the gut everytime he tries to take a step forward and get some information. The nurse could fully see that Ephram had great inentions and just wanted to meet his son, get to see what he looked like, to make sure he was okay. And because of crappy people, he can't do that. And it sucks and it cannot be okay, this situation, IMO, can never just be okay.

Andy/Nina: Again, Nina with the advice. She kicks major Everwood booty! She called Andy on his ways. He's fighting with everyone else, trying to make everything right because he can't begin to make things right with Ephram. Ephram is right and has a right to cut Andy out of his life. Andy has done so many things to put them at odds and Ephram's son was the last straw. It's one thing to take the piano away, take the car away. Those things can be replaced. But Ephram knowing his little boy, nothing can replace that. Ask Nina, she almost had to give up her son to her crappy gay and lying about it husband, we know his name....jerk. anywho...

Amy/Ephram: I did love Amy's conversation with the music dude from Colorado (or was it Julliard?) Calling him an assface...classic. I love Amy and her boldness! But for Ephram to just want to leave and not consider the fact that he might get in? It's okay to be mad at Andy, I welcome that. But this is Ephram's dream. He's so stubborn that he's willing to let go of the one gift that he's ben given. But it all came down when Amy, unaware, spilled that she knew. But it wasn't like she had a responsibility to tell him. That ship sailed in season 2. I just hate how Ephram's trust, once again, has been broken by...Madison and the pregnancy. It's insane how one thing can screw with everyone's lives. I just hate how Ephram just kicked her out of his life. How a relationship that is so propserous could end in like two sentences. Especially one that's so meant to be

Hannah/Topher: Maybe because I'm just so pro Bright/Hannah, but I just don't like Topher. I don't think he really gets Hannah at all. Hannah, on the exterior seems like the normal girl at County High. But Hannah has so much more going on than anyone could ever comprehend. I think Topher isn't good for her because he just doesn't get it. He doesn't have the depth that her core group of friends have that understands. Does anyone think that Topher would drop everything to go with Hannah to visit her dad. I don't know if that ever happens, Hannah visiting her dad and we see it, but I see Bright doing it, never thinking twice. Amy/Bright/Ephram have seen life as a real world, Topher, I don't think has. He's just....a kid But props to her for asking Topher out on a date after saying she's not brave. I mean, it's a stepping stone. First Topher, then Bright

Delia/Andy: I find it reassuring that Delia did forgive Andy and went into the world of the IM land and explained to him who liked who and told Andy who she liked. Delia was always a charmer Like her mom.
Wow, Patricia! This is a detailed analysis of this episode! Yes, this was one powerful episode.

The fact that Jake told Andy that Nina has feelings for him is going to be awkward for a while.
Yes, Delia has been neglected by Andy for quite a while. She was easy to ignore because Ephram was always front and center with all of his Drama...and Delia was so low Maintenance because of her easy going personality. Thank goodness she finally told Andy off!!

Yes, Bright is in denial at the moment about his feelings for Hannah. Good for Hannah for trying to move on with her life and asking Topher out. It's going to be interesting seeing how that relationship develops.
I, personally, didn't care for Topher. He was smart and sweet..but there was something missing from his personality...I didn't see him worthy of Hannah either.

Ephram and Madison! Oh, why did she have to tell him about the baby before the audition!! I wanted to strangle her and punch in her buck teeth! This was the worst timing ever!!!

Andy and Ephram at Carnegie Hall? I can't watch that scene anymore. It is so upsetting to me...my blood pressure goes up and my heart races and I become filled with rage. I fast forward that scene every time I watch that episode. Extremely heartbreaking what Ephram did...he hurt himself the most.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:38 PM
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Yes, Delia has been neglected by Andy for quite a while. She was easy to ignore because Ephram was always front and center with all of his Drama...and Delia was so low Maintenance because of her easy going personality. Thank goodness she finally told Andy off!!
at first I thought that it was Delia was getting closer to Andy as Ephram was getting further apart. But then when Delia started lashing out at everything Andy was doing, trying to converstae with Nina and Jake. And then yelling about the color of the room. Again, "Robin's Egg"? What kind of color is that, is it a real color?

And I also thought that Andy was doing a little work himself, not just painting. Like he was jealous of Nina/Jake and was making an effort to get to know Jake, get to know everything about their relationship.

Maybe a little bit of both?

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Yes, Bright is in denial at the moment about his feelings for Hannah. Good for Hannah for trying to move on with her life and asking Topher out. It's going to be interesting seeing how that relationship develops.
I, personally, didn't care for Topher. He was smart and sweet..but there was something missing from his personality...I didn't see him worthy of Hannah either.
I don't care for Topher either He just lacks a real personality, IMO. He likes Madison for who she is, but he doesn't get her. He won't get that she has to eat more vegetables to make up for God's promises. Her dad's illness would be too much for him to comprehend. And Topher just doesn't seem like he wants to take on a big relationship which is what Hannah wants and deserves. I just don't see Topher as the boyfriend type.

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Ephram and Madison! Oh, why did she have to tell him about the baby before the audition!! I wanted to strangle her and punch in her buck teeth! This was the worst timing ever!!!
She knew he was on his way to the audition. Having a great talk with Madison before his audition would have pumped him up. Ephram was so in a great place before finding out. He actually wanted Andy/Delia to be near him if he got the placement at Julliard. That is the most tremendous growth with Ephram. When they moved to Everwood he couldn't be far enough away from Andy to be okay with everything. And then he's fighting to keep Andy in his life.

But let's look at it this way. Ephram would have made the same decisions of finding his son, no matter if he went to the audition before or after talking to Madison. So, do you think he would've just not gone to Julliard if he got in? He seemed very determined to get everything out of his life that Andy gave him, or in his words, took control of. So either way, I think Ephram would've given up on music no matter if he found out before or after the audition.

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The fact that Jake told Andy that Nina has feelings for him is going to be awkward for a while.
I loved that moment. I believe that Andy had some realization of his own. He really had feelings for Nina, but never stopped to think about it. I honestly t hink, that after Julia died and even being in Everwood a couple of years, he could never see himself getting married again. I mean how long did it take for Andy to remove his wedding ring? And he talked about Julia all the time. Julia was his heart and soul, he was just never around to really appreciate it. But then Nina and her undeniable spirit came into his life and he had that adult confidant to share his fears and get advice from. So that seemed good for Andy, again...emotionally unavailable. She was married...to a gay man, but still married! Then we go a few years later and Nina's not married, not really seriously dating anyone (I never take Jake in a relationship serious) and the newfound information that Andy gets that Nina is in love with him and everything changes. Andy starts to see her differently, act around her differently. It's all kinda cute really. But again, it's something Andy never thought would or could ever happen. Could he really fall in love twice and the second time be just as great as the first time? I think so

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Andy and Ephram at Carnegie Hall? I can't watch that scene anymore. It is so upsetting to me...my blood pressure goes up and my heart races and I become filled with rage. I fast forward that scene every time I watch that episode. Extremely heartbreaking what Ephram did...he hurt himself the most.
That was the breaking point, IMO. Ephram was so close to his dream. All he had to do was forget about everything and just play. Use his anger and all his emotion and just let it flow through the music. Isn't that what one is supossed to do with their craft, pour everything in to it. Julliard doesn't deserve a prodigy like Ephram, but Ephram deserves to get the best and Julliard is the best. I just hate that Ephram let his anger towards Andy and Madison get in the way of completing the only thing he's worked his entire life for.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:46 PM
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I enjoyed the Andy/Nina conversation but it is strange that he never went to Nina about it. I guess because he knew she would have probably told him to tell Ephram.

I completely forgot about Delia. Her little rant seemed a bit random but its true, that Andy still doesn’t seem to make a lot of time for her.

It was hard watching EA fighting but I knew it was coming. But it seems to be more than just the baby issues... but the baby is a big part of it and ephram needs time to process and heal. It’s just too bad he’s pushing her away but I guess they need the ‘drama’.

Not my fav episode of the bunch but looking forward to the end of the season.
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