jediwands

Funny, how you brilliantly hit the exact core of what Dawson's Creek was all about and you never watched a shred of it. LOL Quite honestly, once the triangle hit, nothing else went on with the show and it was all about DJ versus PJ. It was really sad and plain ridiculous. You are sooooo lucky to have never watched it.

I'm afraid you are correct here.

I could not agree more with you. I think it is a combination of Berlanti being too focused on J & B combined with the WB screaming for more teen soapy crap along with the general term of it becoming solely a prime-time soap. This is NOT what Everwood was ever about! And you are so right.. What a shame it would be.

Jerry D

Dawson and Jen’s Season Five relationship definitely was nothing but filler, and I’ll always consider that to be a shame.

Michelle, you made an excellent point about how the premise of Dawson and Joey was to show them as the “will they or won’t they couple of the century”, and in many ways, it ruined the show, because Dawson at least was never really allowed to get over Joey and move on from her. Even in the final episode of the series, it seemed like she was still the only girl for him, but then at the very end, the idea of finally getting them together was discarded. At the end of Seasons Four and Five, despite the fact that Dawson and Joey had spent those entire seasons apart and with other people, events were contrived and logic was discarded to get them back together in the final episode of each season, only to have everything fall apart at the very beginning of the next season, so a “happy ending” for them at the end of the series would have rang totally false, but a lot of their fans still expected it, due to what they thought they had been promised throughout the years, and that’s why most Dawson and Joey fans still feel so cheated. It’s a point of debate concerning whether the Dawson and Joey fans had the right to expect their “happy ending,” but that’s for another board and another time.

Like you, Aquillea, what I’ve liked about Everwood in the past is that it’s been much more than a show about teenage romance, and I liked the way all the characters, including the adult characters, had fleshed out and substantive stories, and the stories involving the patients that Andy interacted with have been fascinating and touching until we got to this Amanda/new love interest storyline, so I also hope that this show doesn’t devolve into nothing more than a prime-time soap, because that really would be a criminal waste of a great show.

jediwands

Absolutely true. And what better way to ruin a show then to not show major growth in the lead actor? Yes, they had Dawson succeed in the area of film, which had part of his heart, but the other part of his heart consisted of Joey, and that part was the one that shattered his heart and never made him completely whole again.

So true, Jerry. This is one of the most hotly debated Creek things ever, and it still is being strongly debated even now. For me, it's one where I gave up on DJ a long time before ever getting to this point of feeling like this. However, I can certainly feel for the die-harders like COOLCAT, who stayed in the trenches and expected that happy ending, but were shot in the heart with the one they got.

Jerry D

Michelle, I also gave up on Dawson and Joey long before the Series Finale, but I also felt sorry for the die-hard D/Jers who held on until the end, hoping and expecting to get their “happy ending,” only to be kicked in the teeth one final time.

COOLCAT200

After 602 I should have gave up but my love for them and hope in the end they would get it right kept me going. That was the only thing I could come up with and why I was so in shock when I heard they changed the ending. Watching the Dream Wedding still pains me to no end. I really hope Everwood later seasons don't turn out like the Creeks.

jediwands

To the spoiled DJers, I couldn't imagine how shocking and painful it must have been to have initially thought you were getting the ending, followed by having it all taken away once the other spoilers of PJ surfaced. Talk about an emotional roller coaster. And a sick and cruel ride at that.

That was just plain pathetic and insulting. What was Kevin and Stupin thinking with this punch below the belt? Low, pathetic and cruel to the ultimate degree. That bothered me immensely as a former die-hard DJer.

Jerry.. Yes, not only were the DJers pained about the final ending, but again, it was just one of many "kicks in the teeth" that had occurred throughout the entire series.

Jerry D

What really got me about the “dream wedding” was that they mocked everything that had happened to Dawson and Joey over the years as they recited their “vows,” and it seemed like the writers were purposely insulting the fans of Dawson and Joey in that scene. I agree about all the kicks in the teeth that the Dawson and Joey fans endured over the years. I’m surprised that I’m not wearing dentures by now!

MAKRO

I'm sure I've about bored everyone to death with my thoughts on this issue, but since I (shamefully) never watched Dawson's Creek, I'll still frame my final thoughts around the Everwood framework.
Everwood is a drama. If we don't enjoy, or don't expect to see drama, we're probably watching the wrong show. Does drama require conflict? Should drama be without conflict? There are going to be the same number of opinions that there are viewers. Each to his own. My summary on the issue is outside of what each of us think is the necessary amount of drama/conflict. And, remembering this is PERSONAL OPINION, my two main thoughts are:
1) Whatever the appropriate weekly quota of drama/conflict may be, it does NOT have to affect every individual story line every week. It's okay to leave one story line unchallenged for several episodes while the drama and conflict are mined from others.
2) I still feel that the most effective drama is that which flows via our established expectations of the characters. (Regardless of how much we debate about those expectations, they're personal to each of us, and there is no right or wrong).
Example: Suppose the writers decide they want to create a brief moment of conflict between Ephram and Delia:
Delia enters the kitchen, with no one else around, and finds Ephram's back pack lying on the table. Curious, she starts poking around in the outer pockets and finds a letter (okay, I moved the pack to the kitchen). Just as she starts to draw the letter out to look at it, Ephram enters, sees her, and goes off on her. He's pissed. She's pissed. Voila, Ephram/Delia conflict.
Alternatively:
Delia enters the kitchen to find Ephram cooking dinner for the two of them (Andy's on a housecall). Ephram hauls off and slaps Delia across the face because he doesn't like the cap she's wearing. He's pissed. She's pissed. Voila, Ephram/Delia conflict.
Both scenarios have the met the stated goal. But the first scenario seems very believable because the behavior of the two characters fits into our expectations (personal opinion remember). Whereas the other scenario is shocking because we don't expect Ephram to behave that way. Which scene is more effective? To me, the first. Effective=believable.
I know we'll never all agree on this, and on whether recent on-screen developments seem appropriate or not, but isn't that the beauty of it?
I know I'm not going to change my mind. I don't expect to change anyone else's.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Jerry,
I agree with you here, I think the writers for dawsons creek. Completely screwed us over when it came to dawson and joey. I also find it hard to believe that joey would just give up her love for dawson at the end of season 2, i understand the circumstances but for a boy she fell in love with or claim to be in love with, she didnt try very hard to keep him now did she. and with the whole back and forth thing, it turn me off on dawson and joey, sorry to say that it did, but i grew to appreciate pacey and joey a bit more.

Wilpen,

i agree, i mean there will be somewhat with madison/ ephrum/amy/ but i dont think the writers would get self destruvtive of the triangles like they writers did with pacey/joey/dawson... i would like to think the writers of everwood had more a creative craft to theirs.


Jerry i agree with this.....

I mean i absoutely hate the madison storyline, and i also dont want to see ephrum being obligated for a child (when he finds out) that he isnt sure that is completely his.


As for the whole Dawson and Joey, I always thought the writers shouldnt have made the fans hope for something more than it really was. If the writers wanted dawson and joey to be nothing but friends than why bring in the relationship? of if they wanted the relationship shouldnt they have had some kind of closure, i can get why so many d.jers and myself get frustrated with this because the writers say they will go this way when they completely go another way out of the blue....


Drama and conflicts shouldnt equal breakups, there is a difference between have disagreements and small fights to unforgiving agruments leading to the breakup, the writers really need to find the difference there because i dont think they can tell the difference.

jediwands

Totally, True Daisy. I have faith that the Everwood writers are certainly more creative and will handle this mini-triangle in a very distinct and pointed manner. Unless, the WB gets vocal and wants to take advantage of the SL availability, and turn this into one heck of a soapy triangle. That would drive me insane.

break the window

Not nessarily.

E/A had a lot of conflicts in their relatinships. And because of a true friendship they do have on top of the love they share with each other, they have been able to overcome them.

But other relationships, like Jake/Nina, they didn't work. There wasn't that dynamic that keeps couples together after a certain time has passed and things are still new. If things aren't new, then drama does happen, maybe resentment and everyone ends up hating the other one and possibly themselves.