[Forwood4Bamon]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) I don't see tons of chemistry between them. Their chemistry doesn't suck but it's not like the chemistry I feel between Chad and Hilarie and James and Joy. I just liked what a decent guy Jake was. Man, was he a great guy. I love how he recognized how amazing Peyton was, too. They really were there for each other during very important moments in their lives. I also love how Jake understood that Peyton still loved Lucas. Jake knew he was never standing in the way of Peyton and Lucas. He knew Peyton loved Lucas in a way that was untouchable which is why he couldn't allow their relationship to continue. He selflessly did the right thing because he loved and respected Peyton so much.

I agree. I cant say I loved BL and Brooke season 1. are they a fling? she annoyed me and I was always on and off about her.

[jediwands]

5.15

- The actor who plays Jamie is so adorable. Jamie is definitely drawn to his Grandfather.

- Lucas is so delusional about Lindsey and you can tell finally Haley sees it, too.

- I love the Peyton/Skills scenes. Skills is literally psychic when it comes to Lucas' life. He knows Peyton's THE one for Lucas and that's just the way it is. He's consistently known this kind of stuff for years and years. Dude has knowledge. I love how he told Peyton when she said he's totally in love with Lindsey that that's sweet but total crap.

Skills knows everything. He even calls Nathan/Haley Naley. LOL

- Junk and Fergie drooling over Millicent is hilarious. LOL

- I love Brooke asking that little kid if he has an inside voice outside. Peyton's cracks about how hard it is taking care of a baby are both hilarious and bang on. LOL

- Lucas is just so... delusional. For anyone who remotely thinks he's totally in love with Lindsey and feels she's the one please listen to what Skills said to Peyton to know... Lucas is a delusional moron with this. Seriously!

- Lucas is such a dumb moron in this episode, seriously. Lindsey walks in and it's like the room lights up for him. This is such a joke. Why on earth is Lindsey even there, by the way? Yes, she has been around Jamie but come on, this is ridiculous. She flew in from NY for the birthday party knowing she'd have to see Lucas? Whatever. LOL

- Deb and the Clown hitting it together...

- Love the Skills/Jamie dynamic.

- I love the Lucas/Brooke friendship. They work as friends, nothing more.

- It cracks me up that people on the past OTH episode discussion thread, or non-LP fans got so excited hearing the Haley/Peyton conversation about what Peyton actually missed about Lucas and her saying it probably is that she misses what they were going to be. So? LOL How again does that mean Peyton doesn't truly love Lucas or Lucas/Peyton aren't meant to be? That thread cracks me up, especially the Lucas/Peyton fans who weren't at all agreeing with that small group. LOL

- Love what Millicent did to fit in with the guys. Awesome.

- Bomb about Dan's heart situation.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by pandiexjeyton (View Post) I agree. I cant say I loved BL and Brooke season 1. are they a fling? she annoyed me and I was always on and off about her.

When did you start liking Brooke and BL?

[cowgirl08]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) I don't see tons of chemistry between them. Their chemistry doesn't suck but it's not like the chemistry I feel between Chad and Hilarie and James and Joy. I just liked what a decent guy Jake was. Man, was he a great guy. I love how he recognized how amazing Peyton was, too. They really were there for each other during very important moments in their lives. I also love how Jake understood that Peyton still loved Lucas. Jake knew he was never standing in the way of Peyton and Lucas. He knew Peyton loved Lucas in a way that was untouchable which is why he couldn't allow their relationship to continue. He selflessly did the right thing because he loved and respected Peyton so much.

All of this plus on a shallow note... Bryan Greenberg was easy to like. I mean....

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by cowgirl08 (View Post) All of this plus on a shallow note... Bryan Greenberg was easy to like. I mean....

Haha, he is a very nice looking dude.

[jediwands]

5.16

- Poor Jamie still can't stop thinking about his Grandfather. So sad.

- Lucas seeing Peyton half dressed was awesome. Talk about TENSION. Brooke so knows what's going on.

- Rivercourt scene between Dan and Nathan was intense but I was more concerned with Nathan throwing that cool basketball and walking away before going to get it. He just left it there! LOL

- I love that finally the Peyton/Haley friendship is rekindled again. GOOD. I can't believe how off it was when Lindsey, Mister Ed's 10000th choice, was around.

- Not sure how I feel about Lucas being so cold about Dan's heart situation.

- Interesting how Nathan claims he wants nothing to do with Dan and yet he's quoting his advice to Q.

- Millicent playing video games is adorable. LOL

- Lucas and his attitude about Dan does start to bother me though and looking at both Haley and Nathan listening to Lucas affirms my position. Lucas might not want Dan around in six months but Nathan had a father in Dan for years and years growing up even if he sucked a lot of the time. Then there's Jamie to consider. Nathan and Haley need to make a decision about Dan on their own without Lucas having an opinion on it.

- Haha I love how Jamie gave Skills the idea about shooting 3s to make up for the loss of a big man. My traveling basketball team was pretty short for a couple seasons, around grades 6-8. We literally ran the ball and relied on outside shooting too. We won tons of games, championships that way. It does work if you have the speed and shooting accuracy. Has to be well coached, though. My dad was a great coach.

- Peyton is so selfless but she shouldn't have gone to visit Lindsey. This is getting so ridiculous. Peyton didn't need to take out the time to do that. LAME! You can absolutely see Mark wanted the Lucas/Peyton thing not to evolve until the beginning of season 6 so 5.12 - 5.18 was dragged out and filler until then. SUCKS because who the hell wants to see Peyton visiting Lindsey? Though I liked Lindsey giving Peyton Lucas' book. Still, this is dragging out so damn much.

- You can tell Q and Nathan are growing closer. Love how Q thanked Nathan and love how Q knows Nathan is attempting a comeback even if Nathan doesn't want to call it that.

- I love how Q apologized to Skills. Nice growth, Q.

- Mouth saved his career because of his awesome girlfriend calming him down! What a great ILY Mouth came up with, too. Very sweet.

- Haley knows Dan needs to be in Jamie's life right now and as a mother, she has every right to feel that way, too. Good for her. Don't listen to Lucas on this, he just doesn't understand. I know Haley threw away Jamie's letter and Nathan went to Dan to say no dice but they don't mean it, you can tell. This story is far from over.

- The Brooke/Angie story is sweet but maybe slightly tiring. I mean, you know it's heartbreak being set up because Brooke's not going to be able to keep her. The story is touching and sweet, though.

- Peyton crying while reading Lucas' book/story...

[jediwands]

5.17

I'm going to have to watch while only half paying attention. I cannot stand Lucas in this one. Oh man, I should pound a couple of shots before watching and I don't even drink so it would put me under the table.

I'm watching on my iPad so Lucas looks smaller and less annoying on the screen.

I keep reminding myself of the title: Hate is Safer Than Love.... I get it but still want Lucas punched in the face over his actions in this one and being drunk doesn't give him an excuse.

[everwoodfan52]

I'm home now and going to watch the next episode...I believe 5.14

[jediwands]

Sweet. I'll watch 5.17 later tonight. I'm now distracted by the Cleveland Cavs and Minnesota Wild at the moment. Nothing like flipping back and forth.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) 5.14 - Dan is still thinking about Keith. That's the thing with Dan... if he was a sociopath or psychopath, he wouldn't be haunted by murdering Keith. He would have zero remorse, he would feel justified. He's not a sociopath or psychopath. He's a guy who definitely has some bad traits and did some bad things that he's trying to work through and gain some peace.

I agree and that is the main reason I am cutting Dan slack right now and feel sorry for him in the way his sons are both treating him. For Jamie's sake (who seems to love him) Lucas and Nathan should cut him slack as well.

- I love that Nathan/Haley are back on track again.

Most definitely! When those two are on track it's a joy to watch.

- Glad Haley and Peyton are back on track too. Welcome back, Haley. Glad that Haley and Peyton will make an album together. Outstanding. Stay far, far away, Lindsey.

Yeah, but I'm still hurt by the way that Haley has treated Peyton. It's going to take me a little time, but I'll warm up to Haley again.

- Lucas and Peyton seeing each other like that was awesome but then the minute Lucas opens up his damn mouth and talks about Lindsey makes him sound completely insane and ridiculous.

WTF!!! Does Peyton really need Lucas to reassure her that Lindsey loves him and is coming back!

-

- For as annoying as Q was in the gym with Nathan I think Nathan needed to hear those arrogant, jabbing words. It will only give him more passion and determination to succeed and make a comeback even if he doesn't realize it right now.

Maybe Nathan needed to hear that...but in that manner?!? Q was sadistic here. I hated it.

- Loved the Dan/Nathan scene on the court. Even if it was 30 seconds long, it was great stuff and very meaningful.

Yes, it was. Can someone remind me who the other jersey on the wall is...the #1?

- Great choice for a Nanny, Haley! Deb is back, so great to see.

How perfect is that!! Deb is a hoot!

- Like Millicent and Mouth, you can tell she's the one for him.

They are so adorable together.

- Seeing Q cry over his injury was sad.

I will feel sorry for him once he makes it up to Nathan. And...I really don't like the hurtful things he said to Skills.

-

Brooke holding the baby at the end was so powerful. Awe.

That was a very very precious/powerful scene! Baby is adorable!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by Betty Yeah, but I'm still hurt by the way that Haley has treated Peyton. It's going to take me a little time, but I'll warm up to Haley again.

Me too. I had way more of an issue with season 5 Haley over season 2. Notice Peyton just takes Haley back no question. Haley even asks Peyton for a favor.

WTF!!! Does Peyton really need Lucas to reassure her that Lindsey loves him and is coming back!

Lucas is a delusional jacka$$ during these last episodes. FYI you're going to despise what he pulls in 5.17 so it gets worse before better.

It's not even what he does with Peyton only too. I have a problem with his advice to Nathan on Dan in the upcoming episodes.

Season 5 Lucas is my least favorite version of Lucas.

Maybe Nathan needed to hear that...but in that manner?!? Q was sadistic here. I hated it.

He makes up for it.

Yes, it was. Can someone remind me who the other jersey on the wall is...the #1?

I think Whitey but not 100% sure.

I will feel sorry for him once he makes it up to Nathan. And...I really don't like the hurtful things he said to Skills.

He makes up for that too.

[everwoodfan52]

Geesh....Q is going to be awfully busy making up stuff.

[jediwands]

In a lot of ways, he's Nathan from the past. Nathan was disrespectful to Whitey. I think Nathan was actually worse given how he treated Peyton. I like the Q and Nathan dynamic. They both see themselves in each other at different times, past and present and you feel their awareness of this.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) In a lot of ways, he's Nathan from the past. Nathan was disrespectful to Whitey. I think Nathan was actually worse given how he treated Peyton. I like the Q and Nathan dynamic. They both see themselves in each other at different times, past and present and you feel their awareness of this.

I definitely see this correlation.

5.15 - The actor who plays Jamie is so adorable. Jamie is definitely drawn to his Grandfather.

That's why for Jamie's sake they need to include Dan in their lives.

- Lucas is so delusional about Lindsey and you can tell finally Haley sees it, too.

Sickening. I just want to punch Lucas until he comes to his senses.

- I love the Peyton/Skills scenes. Skills is literally psychic when it comes to Lucas' life. He knows Peyton's THE one for Lucas and that's just the way it is. He's consistently known this kind of stuff for years and years. Dude has knowledge. I love how he told Peyton when she said he's totally in love with Lindsey that that's sweet but total crap.

Skills is remarkably intuitive about his friends. I just love the guy...there's nothing not good about him!

- Junk and Fergie drooling over Millicent is hilarious. LOL

Seriously...someone needs to get those two a date!

- Lucas is such a dumb moron in this episode, seriously. Lindsey walks in and it's like the room lights up for him. This is such a joke. Why on earth is Lindsey even there, by the way? Yes, she has been around Jamie but come on, this is ridiculous. She flew in from NY for the birthday party knowing she'd have to see Lucas? Whatever. LOL

I know!! And since when does he care what he wears?!? His wardrobe has always been a tee shirt covered by a button down shirt. What is the big deal now!?

- Deb and the Clown hitting it together...

Her behavior was a little over the top in this episode. What the heck did she see in that creepy clown? She had better watch out, cause she may lose her new nannie position.

Love the Skills/Jamie dynamic.

Adorable!

- I love the Lucas/Brooke friendship. They work as friends, nothing more.

The two of them with the baby was precious. They had better watch out though...Lucas asleep holding a baby? Ooops!

-

-

Love what Millicent did to fit in with the guys. Awesome.

Yes, but who's going to dry up that house?

- Bomb about Dan's heart situation.

Is he faking? And if not...does Nathan even care?

[break the window]

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Lucas seeing Peyton half dressed was awesome. Talk about TENSION. Brooke so knows what's going on.

I kind of think why Brooke embraced Lindsey so much because she knew Lindsey doesn't belong in Lucas' life...in that way. Brooke's been the third wheel...TWICE. She got her heart smashed the first time and knew what was going on. The second time, she was the one who decided that Lucas needed to be with Peyton, but he thought doing the breaking up would hurt Brooke, so she did it for him. Kind of an easy way out, for Lucas.

That's how I see it anyway. I don't know why Haley fought so hard for Lindsey, but I guess i can see why Brooke was all Lindsey all the time

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) I love that finally the Peyton/Haley friendship is rekindled again. GOOD. I can't believe how off it was when Lindsey, Mister Ed's 10000th choice, was around.

It was like everything was finally falling into place as it should be. There's no reason why Haley and Peyton shouldn't be best friends, no matter who Lucas is currently dating. I mean there's no stake or claim who Haley should be friends with based on Lucas' romantic indiscretions.

But that's what it felt like. Haley got to know Brooke because she was dating Lucas and Haley wanted to support him, no matter how she felt about Brooke. But Peyton and Haley formed a friendship on their own, before Peyton was dating Lucas and when he was dating Brooke. It was like a light switched on when they started talking again.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Interesting how Nathan claims he wants nothing to do with Dan and yet he's quoting his advice to Q.

That's the thing about about Nathan and Dan. They were always at odds when it has everything to do with basketball. But in life, Dan had really good life lessons for Nathan. He did want Nathan to succeed in life more than basketball and knew what kind of life challenges lay ahead if Nathan pursued the life of pro basketball.

It's so weird with Dan. He knew the pressures of basketball because he experienced the same with his own father. But it was so hard to see him do the same things knowing how Nathan was feeling overtime he would have one of his belittling remarks.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Lucas and his attitude about Dan does start to bother me though and looking at both Haley and Nathan listening to Lucas affirms my position. Lucas might not want Dan around in six months but Nathan had a father in Dan for years and years growing up even if he sucked a lot of the time.

This is such a reminder of how far apart these two guys are. This is how different they were raised. I think with these two guys being friends for so long it's been a little forgetting how far apart they really started. This is a reminder of that, how far they've come from their past.

Nathan had a relationship with Dan. Not always a good one, but he had a relationship with Dan. Lucas, per Dan's fault, never had Dan in his life that way Nathan did. So of course Lucas had so many reservations about Dan's life expectancy. After dan killed Keith, Lucas waited for the day to come when Dan would no long walk the earth as a free man. Lucas, i'm sure, was finally at ease knowing that Dan was getting just what he deserved. For all intents and purposes, Dan was dead to Lucas, they never shared anything outside of horrible remarks to each other. So for Lucas to not want to save Dan, I understand his reasons.

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) The Brooke/Angie story is sweet but maybe slightly tiring. I mean, you know it's heartbreak being set up because Brooke's not going to be able to keep her. The story is touching and sweet, though.

Here's the story. Brooke always wanted to be a mom, prove to herself that she can give love, unconditionally to another person. And this story was written for her and Owen, However, this story was crafted around the time of the writers strike. So the story got handed to Lucas, being the only other romantic relationship in the show's history.

So yeah, if Owen had been around, I think Brooke might've ended up with someone different in the finale. But one never knows

Originally Posted by Michelle (View Post) Peyton crying while reading Lucas' book/story...

Towards the end of this season, Peyton is really setting in on not ending up with Lucas. Either he wants to be with Lindsey or he just wants to be alone, but it's becoming clear to Peyton that he isn't destined to be with her anymore. So I think that's why she started crying so hard over reading Lucas' story.

Originally Posted by Mich1111 (View Post) I keep reminding myself of the title: Hate is Safer Than Love.... I get it but still want Lucas punched in the face over his actions in this one and being drunk doesn't give him an excuse.

This and 5x18 are the ones I want your most thoughts on. This shapes what really happens to Lucas and Peyton int he finale.

Lucas never hated Peyton, not her personally. He hated the idea of her coming back, screwing up his head and making his heart ache for her. Lucas thought he was finally set in a good relationship where he couldn't really get his heart smashed like before and then Peyton came back and mixed everything up.

Believe me, this is like beating the dead horse when I remember all the conversations going around he LP threads/forums about how he said he hated her...after all she did for him.

Lucas has always needed Peyton in his life and not just for a relationship. But for everything. She is his best friend. The one person he can trust that will always love him no matter what. And Lucas felt he didn't have that when Peyton came back and Lucas realized that not only could he not love another woman, but he couldn't just go back to the woman he did love. So much has happened. You just can't flip the switch and they're back in high school again and passing notes in class. It doesn't work that way.

I think all of it bottled up just finally let Lucas just....come undone. And through that, I think that's where his feelings happen.