SpySyd

I really think she was in love with him. He was her first love. Do I think they would've lasted had Colin not died? No. Even I, a big shipper, don't see how they could've, when you see now Amy's mature relationship with Ephram. With Colin, it was innocent, young love. But it was love. I never doubted that for a second.

Augusta

Yup. Totally agree I didn't see them lasting very long, even if the accident never happened. Plus, like we all know, he was planning on breaking up with her, so it was inevitable.

The Crow

As always, some butthead has to jump in and disagree. Today, that butthead will be me.

I think Joey did love Dawson in season 1. It seemed to be made abundantly clear to me. Plus, I believed that she had feeling for him for long after that, even if the he didn't blatantly return them. I personally think that the disintegration of the writing began in season 2 when they had to find some lame reason for them to break up. That was when I slowly stopped caring about the D/J relationship. Kevin Williamson leaving and the beginning of season 3 really cemented it. Dawson's whole "I need to be on my own" stupidity really started me down the path of not really liking his character. That feeling was cemented at the end of season three when he basically decided he wanted Joey back after he discovered that she was with someone else. Of course, as much as I loved the whole storyline, and as big a P/J fan as I am, it wasn't as satisfying as it could have been. Even the big moment of Joey leaving on the sailboat with Pacey was tainted for me because the writers made it seem like Joey only went because Dawson gave her his permission. The same thing happened in the series finale. In the commentary, KW says that Joey has decided to be with Pacey when she talks to him after the funeral, but the audience only gets that information after Joey has her talk with Dawson, where he slips out the permission again. It isn't as blatant as the season three moment, but it was there.

And now I'm going to shut up about my OT rant. Good night, and good luck.

SpySyd

IMO, Everwood and DC were two very different shows and I could never compare couples from one to couples from the other. It's just not the same thing, there are different actions leading to very different conclusions. It's just not comparable. But that's just me I guess

jediwands

Those are some great thoughts, Alan. Dawson pushing Joey away at the beginning of season 3 was ridiculous and in my mind entirely OOC. I hated that so much and I think it was at that point where I realized there was a huge difference in the way the show was heading from that point on. I really did feel it that early on. I also knew the minute PJ sat on that dock together that they were heading towards a romantic relationship as well. I knew that in a crystal clear way.

Excellent observations about the "permission factor." That was honestly a constant theme throughout the series and it was pretty irritating because I'm not sure what kind of message was being sent half the time. You mentioned Joey needing Dawson's permission in "True Love" and the Series Finale. Another one would be in the phone conversation between DJ in the episode where PJ sleep together on the ski trip. Joey seemed to be getting Dawson's permission then as well. I found that sort of weird in a way because I didn't understand if she didn't truly want to sleep with Pacey or she did, but felt guilty that she did and as a result, wanted some type of confirmation from Dawson that it was okay that she go through with it (in so many words that is). Nevertheless, it took place.

As far as comparing Everwood with Dawson's Creek, I do believe the comparison exists not really because of similar characters per say but just because of how heavily Berlanti and Rina were involved with both shows. It naturally allows some comparison. In addition, it is true that DJ were the meant to be couple of Dawson's Creek, at least for a certain amount of time, while EA were obviously the meant to be couple of Everwood AND Berlanti also commented on both couples in endless interviews as well. So that's why there will always be a tendency for some comparisons to take place.

However, most definitely, Everwood and Dawson's Creek are two very different shows whenever it's all said and done.

Lor-baby

I don’t usually post on this board very often. Not because I don’t want to or anything. It’s just that I have yet to see season 4 and I haven’t even taped or watched more than twice the episodes of the previous seasons. I’m kind of fussy when it comes to these things. I usually only talk about things I have a total knowledge of, hence my absence from this amazing board.
Anyway…
I heard from Michelle (over the Gilmore Girls board) that you all were having this sort of cross-over debate and I finally felt like I was being able to give my opinion about something, so here I am.

I’ve been an Amy/Ephram fan since day one, but this has never prevented me from enjoying the other relationships on the show.
As much as I ended up not really liking Colin that much toward the end of season one ( I did felt for him though. Maybe ‘cause I had to go through a very similar experience in my life), I really did enjoy the whole Colin/Amy back-story and their bond. It was appealing to watch. Nothing remotely close to what E/A had but still…
I’ve always thought that while we grow up we experience different kinds of love.
The one you feel when you’re 16 years old is something new and exciting and important, but the most of the times something not mature or deep enough to overcome the obstacles of the adult life.
I do think that Amy loved Colin. I mean ,guys, look at what she did for him in season 1 and how she suffered for that loss in season two. That was something. That was dedication, that was affection, that was love.
I don’t know if I can really say that she was in love with him, not in the true sense I give to the word anyway, but she most definitely loved him very much. Just the way you love your first love I guess.
Were they meant to be or made for each other? No. I never thought that. What they shared was friendship and young, innocent love. Nothing that could really turn into something mature or adult or lasting. I don’t think for a second that ,even if Colin had survived, they would’ve lasted in the long run. They just weren’t IT for each other.
I also think that Amy probably idealized him as the time passed by, but then again…that’s what happens very often with your first love.
It’s something you can’t fully let go of (hence the say “First love never fades”). Especially when it’s because of the external circumstances (Colin’s illness in this case) that you two have been kept apart and haven’t had the chance to really explore your relationship or to see that you couldn’t work as a couple in the long run.
Especially when your first love happens to be your childhood friend/best friend. Someone who’s grown up with you, who’s shared with you some of the most important moments of your life. That is an unbreakable bond and ,as you grow up, chances are you’ll find yourself feeling something more even if it’s not true love. Just because I think that those bonds live somewhere between friendship and love. You can never really define them. They are forever innocent (with all the due exceptions of course. At times people fall in love at 16 and spend the rest of their lives together. It's not a rule.) but they’re still so powerful that until you experience what true adult love really is, it’s easy to mistake them for something romantic.
I just guess that the main difference from what A/C had and A/E have is that Amy and Ephram share something ‘real’ and mature, while what A/C shared was only partly real, but for the biggest part was greatly idealized. Almost naive. But then again, when you’re so young it’s normal to daydream and idealize.
You totally hit the nail Michelle.
I’m completely with you.
I don’t usually ship first lovers on any tv show, but Kevin was able to ‘get me’ and made me fall in love with ‘his’ Dawson and Joey. ‘Cause, yes, what I had the pleasure to witness btw them (back in season 1 and 2) to me was True Love. It was something beautiful and special that was/is really rare to see on tv nowadays. I did considered those Dawson and Joey soul mates. Sadly those beautiful memories just made everything worse once Williamson jumped the ship leaving Stupin in control of it. The writers messed Dawson and Joey up so much that I ended up almost not caring about them anymore. Season 6 was sooo boring that I couldn’t end a single episode without switching through the other channels the most of the times. Joey’s character slowly lost her credibility (especially in regards to love and romance) and my respect while ,as the show was getting nearer to its end, DJ lost their magic to me.
Despite it all I never bought for a moment PJ being meant to be or the real true love. I know that this was what the writers wanted us to believe in the end since the most of the audience was shipping them and since they had messed DJ up so much, but still I didn’t buy it. I did saw and did loved the KJ chemistry. It was undeniable but it was just not enough for me. As much as I can see and appreciate the chemistry existing between two actors ,the chemistry alone is not enough for me to ship them. The writing needs to be good and credible. Let’s just say I didn’t buy the most of season 3 (Hence I didn’t buy PJ ‘cause let’s face it: That season was the turning point for the show) and wasn’t really got by the PJ romance in season 4, even if I did liked some moments here and there. Season 5 and season 6 just cemented my opinion about them. I have to admit that I did enjoyed watching KJ interacting on screen in season 6 ,mainly because it was nice and refreshing to see two main characters talking to each other or dealing with their past (especially since PJ never actually dealt with it before) after a season filled of Nothingness and guest stars with all the main characters kept apart, but still the writers couldn’t convince me that Joey was meant to be with Pacey. They messed up too much and for far too long with the whole triangle thing IMO.
The anvils about DJ never lacked but from time to time they radically changed things giving also PJ anvils or confusing signals (to please and confuse the biggest part of the audience I guess). I couldn’t get the real message (especially in season 6) the most of the time and as a viewer it was frustrating. Plus, as Dawson would put it, after hearing Miss Josephine Potter declaring her everlasting love to half planet, her words ‘lost all meaning’ to me so I would have honestly preferred to have her ending up along in the end. It’s just that to me the roads to take could’ve been two: 1) forget realism. This is a tv show. DJ were the meant to be couple since the very beginning so let’s give’em the long awaited happy ending. 2) or Writing a realisitic ending, where they faced the fact that they had ruined both the DJ/ PJ relationships and consequently let her end up alone.
Oh well. It went how it went.
I’m just glad we didn’t have to endure anything like that on Everwood.

jediwands

Yeah...

You know I personally cannot wait until you see the entire series because I would love to have you over here, giving your amazing thoughts and opinions. You're a master at analyzing shows by giving such superb insight. I think this post very much demonstrates the magic you create through your words.. I'm a big fan.

Outstanding. My plan worked. I got you over here.. Haha.

Me too. I'm a huge fan of Andy/Nina, Harold/Rose...

Wow, you went through something like this as well? I'm so sorry to hear that... No wonder this situation touched you...

Absolutely you do...

Yeah, I see what you mean. I will never buy that Amy was ever "in love" with Colin. I will always feel that she never was.. But I certainly can buy that she loved him in a deep caring, kind of way. I do believe that she thought she was in love with him and that she did have this fantasy of the perfect boyfriend, the perfect scenario that constantly floated in her mind and that part of it wasn't real.

However, she did care a great deal about Colin. I could never deny that. There is no way she would have stuck by his side throughout the entire situation (although Ephram did help her do this as well, no doubt about it.. Vegetative State shows that in spades) if she didn't truly care about him.

Absolutely. They were never meant to be and Berlanti constantly hit this point home from the first moment that violin started playing and this gorgeous show began. They never had the necessary ingredients for something mature and everlasting. Laynie telling Ephram Colin was going to break up with Amy before his accident spoke volumes and hit this point home all the more. Not to mention the hard fact that Colin knew that EA were the real deal as well.

They really were all about an innocent, childhood relationship.

I think if Colin would have survived, Amy would have hung on and tried to make things work but it never would have been a success. Amy was drawn to Ephram immediately and that was never going to stop. EA would have ended up together no matter what.

Such great points you're making... She certainly idealized him. And brilliant point about how there was the external circumstance that prevented them for digging deep and doing an exploration of their relationship. This is so true. The very fact that Colin was going to break up with her before the accident proves that they were certainly not about anything deep or there was not a "togetherness" considering Amy was clueless about Colin wanting to break up with her. The accident and drama that ensued certainly prevented them from either breaking up or diving in and figuring out if they wanted to work on their relationship to see if it was worth saving. They never did have this opportunity either way.

Excellent thoughts. You're so right, Amy was bound to never forget about Colin no matter what resulted in their relationship. If Colin would have lived and they ended up breaking up, she still would have never forgotten him. They did have a bond that was never going to break... Colin was the first boy she ever kissed, the first boy she ever had more than friendly feelings towards, they knew each other as young children, he nicknamed her "Grover." She was never going to forget these things. Ever. They were/are going to remain with her for the rest of her life. They didn't have to have true love in order for Amy to forever have these memories with her. I love the term you use, "forever innocent." Perfect description.

Such great thoughts. I love how you compared the two... I think you are dead on correct, Barbara. Perfect description of AC and AE. Hang on, you said you had to wait to see the entire series before you could dive in and give your total thoughts? You know your stuff, NOW, and you haven't even seen season 4. That's impressive, my friend.

Me too, Barbara, as you know. Like Berlanti hooked me with Ephram/Amy in the Pilot of Everwood, Williamson hooked me with Dawson/Joey in the Pilot of Dawson's Creek. I was a firm believer in the DJ love story in seasons 1/2 and I absolutely felt like they had found true love together even that early on in their lives. I certainly believed they were soulmates. I didn't doubt it for one second even through some of Joey's indecisive ways in season 2. I was still convinced they were meant to be, they found true love and were soulmates during the first two seasons.

With you. In many ways I wish we would have never received seasons 1/2 because it was a punch in the gut to receive those seasons, then have Stupin suddenly appear with a "joke's on you" sign that said, "forget those first two seasons, they were all a complete joke, they weren't real, now I'm going to tell my own story."

As I was saying in one of my earlier posts, it really was as if they took seasons 1/2 and separated them from season 3- the end. Two parts took place and neither part essentially had anything to do with the other.

So with you. Season 6 was a joke.. Season 5 & 6 were pretty horrid. I absolutely lost respect for the character of Joey as well. It was as if I could barely even identify her at all. She was so unrecognizable to me. It really was a shame. Oh for sure, DJ lost all of their magic. Like Joey, they were unrecognizable to me. Seriously, once that finale of 2 hit and the ending credits of that episode rolled, that was the precise moment that DJ started to jump off a cliff... Stupid essentially killed all that was good about these two from that point on.

You make such amazing points. I'm absolutely with you. Greg/Emily are the definition of chemistry... And to add the writing, acting, directing, oh man, what a complete and total package that brilliantly took place. Priceless is what it was...

Such great analysis. I'm so with you. The DJ anvils NEVER lacked.. The problem was they were confusing because I feel like once the later seasons hit, the anvils were more or less thrown in there to satisfy the DJers, nothing more. They weren't served as something meaningful in other words. They were bones being thrown to hungry DJers that craved devouring some hope.. The problem was it was all about false hope. Especially whenever at the same time, PJ anvils were happening as well.

I am so with you regarding season 6. It was one, complete mess. I was also dumbfounded with the message being sent.. I think it was a mixed, confusing message that made very little sense. I still feel like even if season 5 sucked, it was very DJ centric for the most part and the finale of 5 still proves this theory... But once season 6 happened, all bets were off. It was like the most confusing piece of crap I have ever seen. And Eddie being shoved down our throats was a big pain in the ass to say the least. He only added to the irritation.

This is so true and so hilarious how you beautifully stated it...

I also felt like both Dawson and Pacey were better off without Joey in the end. I'm still shocked that the both of them were pining for her... So ridiculous. This girl was constantly treated as the greatest thing ever and I will never understand why. She was so indecisive, couldn't make a decision to save her life, she really could be downright heartless at times.. Whenever it was all said and done, I had big time difficulty understanding why BOTH Dawson and Pacey were so hung up on her. Please, someone, list some reasoning as to why they still were? I would really like to know. I just don't get it.

Heh. Absolutely... Right on.. Man, why weren't you the one writing the ending? We would have gotten something that at least made sense.

So true, Barbara..

EA = a gorgeous love story from start to finish

Berlanti knocked their love story straight out of the park.

Home Run. No, not Home Run. GRAND SLAM.

Lor-baby

My oh my thank you Michelle
You love to make me blush don’t you?
I really don’t think I’m that special. I blab a lot. That’s it
But, seriously, these words mean so much to me. Especially coming from you.
I’ve always enjoyed your posts even when we still didn’t know each other so well (or at all for the matter ). I kept reading them and it was always a pleasure.
I remember I was so happy when I first saw you over the Neshbe thread, because of that, so I’m really glad you appreciate my thoughts as well.
Ok, now that we’ve revisited the beginnings of our beautiful love story let’s move on and answer to your post

Me too. I’ve waited 4 years (but what is 4 years after Luke and Lorelai? ) for Andy and Nina to ‘suck it up and get over it with’ ,as our evil ASP would say, and it’s been a pleasure. I loved watching them becoming friends, then best friends, then more than that and finally lovers. What a beautiful journey. My only complain is about not being able to see them living together and all. I would’ve so loved to see that(their engagement, their married life etc.), but then again I know it’s not writers’ fault. If the stupid Cw had allowed this amazing show to go on I’m pretty sure we would’ve see that as well. Such a pity that we couldn’t.
Harold and Rose were great as well. I whish there were more tv shows able to deal with married couples the way the Everwood’s writers dealt with these two. So deep and beautiful.

Well not me myself. My mom did. The situation was a little less complicated though. Luckily. And now she’s fine I’d dare to say.
It’s just that when you see certain things on screen it kind of brings the memories back you know.
In fact my mom couldn’t deal with Colin’s story the most of the times. She just couldn’t. It was too much and too hard for her.
She has never watched the last episodes of season 1. She still has got to watch’em actually and I’m not sure she ever will lol

Yep. That’s exactly what I meant before

Totally. I’m with you.
It’s true that Colin( after he woke up from his vegetative state) said that ‘now’ he was finally in love with Amy, that he wasn’t before but he was after all he went through, but you know…I wouldn’t be that sure.
Yeah he did loved her, cared a great deal about her and maybe he thought he was in love with her, but I always couldn’t help but feel like his sudden new-found love for Amy was more due to the fact that she’d been by his side all along helping him out, encouraging him and all, than to real undeniable feelings of attraction and true love.


Absolutely. And quite frankly this is what I loved about them.
Childhood bonds are precious. You’re going to treasure them for life no matter where you are or who you are with. I think that the most of us have that kind of bond with someone. Be it a male friend or a girl friend.
Amy and Colin shared that kind of ‘everlasting forever innocent’ bond. It was their beauty IMO.

Once again I gotta agree. That’s what I’ve always thought and still think as well.

Yeah they didn’t and to me that’s what made Amy so hung up on him for such a long time even after he died.
Life took Colin away from her when they had just begun to explore their relationship. She was still sure she was in love with him and was still living in her idealized fantasy world where Colin and her were supposed to live happily ever after. She didn’t have the chance to see that fantasy crash in front of her eyes and consequently she couldn’t let go of it.

Beautifully put. Totally agree.

Let the blushing begin again

I guess that what bugged me and bugs me the most is that Stupin was there since the beginning.
He was there with Kevin. He contributed to create season 1 and 2 and still threw it all away.
Maybe the fact that the most of season1-2 writers left the ship after Kevin’s departure influenced it all but still Stupin should’ve known better.

That’s exactly it.
They found two actors who shared a great on-screen chemistry and in addition to that the writing for their characters was excellent.
I loved and love this about EA ‘cause it’s so easy to waste the chemistry existing btw two characters/actors just because of the bad writing ( Luke and Lorelai docet. It’s not a case that they were nominated as the Best WASTE of chemistry this year. Still can’t get why Amy had to go there. She had made such a beautiful job with them so far. Sigh).

Sing it sister! It’s always going to be a mistery for me too.
All Joey Potter deserved in the end were cats.

Yes. And let me tell you that this is something that’s becoming really rare to see on tv.
The most of the times writers end up destroying their own couples or make them incredibly boring and redundant by having the characters repeatedly breaking up and getting back together. Just because their show is renewed and they don’t know how to create drama in credible way anymore. It’s frustrating.
I miss this kind of romance, growth and realism in tv couples. We should see it way more often ‘cause it’s way more refreshing and appealing than all the crap they usually give to us.
If I wanted to watch everyone sleeping with everyone, if I craved for triangles or eternal off and on couples I would dedicate myself to the Soap operas’ universe. I’m still mad that they tainted the most of my favourite couples (Dawson/Joey; Ross/Rachel and now Luke and Lorelai) because of that.

Raja

In love? After all she went through for him. I'd say yes. It seems a little unfair to dismiss it because it was in the past and that he's now dead and she's moved on.

If Ephram were to get struck by lightning a month after the series finale and after a long period of mourning she met someone else and had a happy existence would Ephram be just a childhood lark?

As far as Amy being obsessive. Amy's personality is obsessive.

The series pretty much threw Colin in the closet and forgot about him and his sister Laynie (). But at least it wasn't as bad as Whitney on Smallville.

AngelaiDanes

Sorry I am late replying here but Ive been on vacation for the last week. Love the thread.

ITA. I dont know one person who didnt view their 1st serious relationship as being "in love" with the person while it lasted. So many come to realize that it was fantasy more than anything else. Im with you on saying her relationship with Colin was necessary, for sure. She did care deeply about him and probably always will much like all first loves. I mean they grew up together so that in itself meant they had strong feelings for each other. I just didnt see her childhood love for Colin the same way as I did with Ephram. Just the fact Colin was ready to break up with her before the accident meant their feelings werent mutual and the relationship was lacking big time. They couldnt even communicate. I think she liked the all American dream: he was popular, best friends with her brother, her parents loved him, he was a star athlete, childhood friends. All of it looked good. If he was a loner like Ephram would she have felt the way she did???

Precisely. ITA. Berlanti painted the picture for why she liked being in love, but also showed their faults she refused to see like him not saying "I love you" back and him ready to break up with her. All the while we saw her feelings for Ephram develop and her trying to control them from getting in the way of her so-called perfect relationship and life.

I love how Berlanti finally had Amy realize Colin was more of a nice fantasy and not real. Even in season 3 she wasnt ready to let go in Shoot the Moon. But I think her intense feelings for Ephram and the love she had for him came full front while they were apart in season 4 and Amy finally admitted to Ephram that he was her person, Colin was a fantasy, Ephram turned her world upside down when he came to Everwood.

No way I love your posts as well Barbara. Seriously yours are one of the only ones I thoroughly enjoy reading and responding to at Neshbe. I love that you decided to post at Everwood.

That makes complete sense. I think Colin liked Amy's intense devotion towards him and probably figured no other girl would have stuck it out at such a young age. He also was basically given his past when he couldnt remember a thing so for all we know he could have taken Amy's behavior and other people's memories and figured for her to stick with him they must have been in love and no way did he think he was on the verge of dumping her.

Im also with you on Berlanti and Rina never completely wasting Ephram/Amy's chemistry even when they werent together. It was so obvious that what Greg and Emily have is perfection so why keep them apart, its unnecessary. I hated that ASP even went that far on GG in the season finale. It will never make any sense to me, the rantings were at their highest with happy LL, so she doesnt even have that excuse. Thank god shes gone.

And I fully admit that my love for Ephram/Amy has biased me from ever thinking Amy/Colin were real or that she loved him as much as Ephram. I just didnt see it. Amy/Colin were flawed from the start and Berlanti always showed them that way to me, just like he always showed how Madison's fixation on the age issue was going to get in the way of EM and doom them. The themes never went away. And it led EA to each other in the end.

I love the rest of your posts Michelle and Barbara, as well as everyone else's thoughts. Its such an interesting topic to debate.

jediwands

Never, my friend. You are that special and you certainly do not blab in the least. Your posts are amazing.

Wow, right back at you! No kidding, either. Whenever I first went over to the GG board, a huge smile was planted across my face the minute I saw that you were posting there, thus, it meant that you were a fan of the show because I was so psyched at the prospect of being able to interact with you on another board as well. Honestly, you were the very reason why I first posted there in the first place. This is the complete truth, too.

And surely what a beautiful love story it is...

Exactly.

LL teaches patience, man...

Absolutely. To see AN and their transition, complete and total process of going from friends to something more was magnificent. And like LL, they were never just friends from the start even though that was technically their "title." There was always something more going on between them and eventually, as time went on, they simply couldn't deny it anymore. It really was a great journey. So with you on being disappointed that we weren't able to see their engagement/marriage materialize in a better fashion but yes, it was all about the CW. I'm sure of that. I can guarantee this was all planned out well in advance by Berlanti but whenever the evil CW came into play, all bets were off and it was difficult to FF or adjust in a sufficient amount of time. It sucks. It really does. But the beauty of this show is that the story is so well written, we can sort of fill in the blanks and KNOW what took place, you know? We KNOW they got married, we KNOW they were celebrating being Grandparents for Eprham/Amy's children, this all took place... The story is way too good for us not to know this.

Absolutely. Is there another show out there that has dealt with married couples so beautifully as Everwood? I honestly don't think so. Such a rarity. Such beauty.

Awwwww. I'm so sorry about that.. That must have been so difficult for your mom.. Awwww.

Great minds think alike.

This is exactly how I see it as well. Surprise, surprise. Heh. Nah, it really is. I am of the belief that Colin developed true feelings of love for Amy but it was all due to the current situation that was going on. And that would certainly be natural as well. His feelings for her were all about situational and had present tense meaning, it wasn't about the past or their history.

This is very true. Certainly, we all have these bonds that we remember vividly. Amy will never forget Colin, there's no doubt about it.

Wow, that's great stuff.... I have nothing to add outside of saying that I'm in awe of your thoughts. So true!

Well deserved. Blush away...

That's such a great point. He WAS there the entire time, he knew Kevin's vision from day 1. He had complete understanding of the very reason WHY Kevin created this show in the first place. It was always about DJ from day 1.. Stupid KNEW this and yet, the minute Kevin left, it simply didn't matter. All bets were off, he was going to do it his damn way and his damn way alone. Great point about the other writers leaving as well but like you said, he should have known better. What an idiot. Honestly, I have zero respect for this guy. Not to mention the fact that he had a direct hand in the ridiculous ending that we got. Like you said, even with all the garbage that was thrown our way from season 3 and on, at the very least they should have gotten the ending right now matter what. Stupid couldn't even do that... He must have felt like his "stupid" story made sense. Yeah, right, you're dreaming dude.

So with you... Greg/Emily as Ephram/Amy had the brilliance of the writing, directing, producing always behind them. Not to mention what they could create alone with their natural chemistry and general feelings of liking for each other.

But could you imagine how much better Scott/Lauren would be if only they always had the fabulous stuff on GG that Greg/Emily had on EW? Season 6 was such a waste for Scott/Lauren because for the vast majority of the season they were given crap to work with. So infuriating.

Ahhhhhhhhhh! So true!!!!

Wow, bravo! You hit this perfectly...

You're forgiven, just don't ever do it to me again, going away for that long and all. It felt like you were gone for a year... In other words, it sucked. Heh.

Excellent post as always. I love every second of it so I'll just say that and then comment on some specifics... I could comment on your post for days otherwise. Heh.

Such great points... Berlanti poked a large hole in AC the minute Laynie told Ephram that Colin was going to break up with her. That did precisely mean just what you said.. The feelings were obviously not mutual and there was something severely lacking in their relationship. Think about how he couldn't even say he loved her back or how he sort of went off with Bright and blew off Amy knowing she was visibly upset? I'm not saying Colin was a jerk technically for doing this. He tried to talk to her but she was blowing him off. However, this is proof that they were not communicating properly and there were tons of red flags there in such a distinct way.

She did love the American dream. Such an amazing point about if Colin were a loner like Ephram, would she have felt the same way.. I honestly think not. There's no way, actually.

With Ephram, it was the real deal and it felt so stunningly different to Amy she couldn't barely breathe sometimes, it was overtaking her in such a powerful way. She knew it was real... She loved and hated it at the same time as a result.

Beautiful summary. This is exactly what he was showing. The way Berlanti created this distinction was just amazing. The meaning was as deep as an ocean. You could perfectly see what was going on with Amy with regards to Colin, Ephram, and the journey she was on. We saw fantasy Amy (AC) and reality Amy (EA) so vividly... It made the story that much more powerful as well...

Amazing points. I'm so with you that Amy had a complete and total "awakening" in season 4. It was as if she needed to take a step back for a while to completely see the light. She was able to view her entire situation with both Colin and Ephram and come to a complete understanding of what everything meant to her. It was then that she had complete realization on everything. Colin was the fantasy, Ephram was always the reality.

Amen...

Watch This Smile

Whoa. I can't compete with those tremendous posts. I really enjoyed reading every thought, I even sweat doing that, but ultimately, I can't think nothing but amazement. Amy was greatly devoted to Colin, that's something I have always looked up even though I was a Ephram/Amy believer from day one. I didn't like Colin, the character itself either, but ultimately, he was needed, even I concede, along with the history and background he brought.
Many of you pointed out how he was just a fantasy, first crush ever, first boyfriend and all of that. I couldn't agree more. He was all her life after all. Her brother's best pal, her childhood friend, he's always been in her life. I believe she was mostly scared to let that go. The dedication, more like an obsession to me, Amy had for him proved how un-mature (I make up words like it's my job, baby) this love was. Which was strongly emphazed when Ephram learnt from Laynie Colin's intention of breaking up with Amy and just sacrified himself for her interest, having no intentions whatsoever to let Amy know that piece of knowledge that would ultimately have led her to break up with Colin. Actually, every action Ephram might have done was meant to nothing but to emphaze it.
Ephram and Amy were meant to be. No one can ever say it enough and doubt it. But what makes them exceptional and fabulous is that we bought every second of it. It wasn't just thrown down our throats. There was foundation, there was feelings, there was nothing but pure greatness.

Augusta

I often feel the same way, lol! Some of the posts on this board can make nocels look like short stories! haha! But I usually find those posts to be really insightful and interesting to read

buffyannAlex

Summer> I love your post so much I could make out with it

I plan to reply to this thread but there's so many thoughts out there that it's actually hard to sort things out...

jediwands

As I told you earlier, you can and you did!

That's really how I feel as well. Devoted is a perfect word to describe what Amy was. So with you on the rest of your thoughts as well.

You have such a way with words.. So beautiful.

And now I'll leave Alex alone so she can start the making out.

Also, Alex, chime in here and post your thoughts on this subject... Your thoughts are missing on this thread, I can feel it.