[secretk]

And that's why Amy is not my favorite. I guess the difference is that while I do have similarities with Hannah and Ephram, I have one major difference - if someone tries to push me, I won't let them. If there is something that I hate is someone to control me.

That's why I liked Bright - his approach would work for me. In fact I have a coworker like him and he drags me into parties and makes me meeting people. It's fine, because he doesn't push me, he's more patient. Amy's approach would cause only arguments.

Maybe that was good for Hannah though. I don't know and I can't say, because in that department I'm not like her.

And I agree that Andy has that too. Heck, I have that too. But I am more like - 'Look this is my opinion. You want my advice, that is. It's up to you what you want to do, but if you don't want to follow it, then don't ask me anymore about the same thing'. While Amy is 'this is my opinion and it's the only right thing to do'. I agree that she has that from Harold. While Bright is more tactful like Rose.

Well Ephram tried to teach Hannah about that. Do you remember the episode where Bright, Hannah and Ephram went to a party? Ephram told Bright that Hannah was uncomfortable (and he was right), Bright asked her and she denied it. The way Ephram looked at her - it was like 'you are so lying' .

['Tos]

Yeah, I don't like being controlled either! I do think, though, that Hannah got better at that in S4. In S3, she kind of just went along with what Amy wanted. In S4, Hannah got a bit of a backbone and started to push back. Like their argument over Amy working at the abortion clinic, I mean, neither came off very well or mature, but Hannah did show some push back by not just agreeing with Amy and not letting Amy think it was okay for her to get mad at Hannah having a different opinion.

That arc of Hannah's, where she got stronger and more opinionated and felt comfortable being herself was something I really liked about her in late S3 and even S4 when she wasn't exactly my favourite character anymore. It showed that being an introvert doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a pushover, that letting others get you out of your shell doesn't necessarily mean that you have to change who you are. That's something I'm still learning, so it's nice to have Hannah as kind of a role model in that sense.

Originally Posted by Koni Well Ephram tried to teach Hannah about that. Do you remember the episode where Bright, Hannah and Ephram went to a party? Ephram told Bright that Hannah was uncomfortable (and he was right), Bright asked her and she denied it. The way Ephram looked at her - it was like 'you are so lying'

That was hilarious!

Ephram has always been better about communicating his displeasure with things. Obviously communication has always been one of Hannah's issues. She's better at communicating to a journal than she is with others. But, yeah, she started getting better at that with Amy and pushing back and showing some strength. I think it would have been a really cool story to see her new found ability to communicate her displeasure with Amy to translate to her relationship with Bright. I don't know, I guess she learned that with the cheating, because post-Ada she was able to show that same push back and strength, but...yeah, well, I still think it would have been cool!

And I agree that Andy has that too. Heck, I have that too. But I am more like - 'Look this is my opinion. You want my advice, that is. It's up to you what you want to do, but if you don't want to follow it, then don't ask me anymore about the same thing'. While Amy is 'this is my opinion and it's the only right thing to do'. I agree that she has that from Harold. While Bright is more tactful like Rose.

Well said on all of that.

[secretk]

Well Ephram has always been honest . Sometimes he can even be so honest that people might get hurt. I have that too. It's like 'if you don't want to know the truth, don't ask me at all' .

While Hannah is more like 'I will tell you what you want to hear'. I think that she was shy. She deliberately chose to not be extrovert - she chose to not have friends, because she didn't feel comfortable that way. While Ephram just doesn't want countless acquaintances. He feels totally fine the way he is (in the introversion department). That's the difference between Ephram and Hannah for me.

I agree that the cheat changed her and I think that it was for the better. And I think that Season 5 Hannah would be even better.

['Tos]

See, all these comparisons between Ephram and Hannah...they should have so many more scenes!! They could have talked about how Ephram dealt with Amy at first. Wouldn't that have been awesome?

[secretk]

It would be awesome I agree. Though to be honest I think that Hannah and Ephram are not the same. They seem alike, but they have crucial differences. One example is what I said in my previous post - the honesty. For the others, I will talk when I start talking about Hannah personality.

I don't know how Ephram would help her with Amy - after all she didn't want to sleep with Amy. I do however think that Ephram would have been helpful in teaching her how to say 'NO'. So much wasted potential between the two.

['Tos]

I would have loved to have seen Ephram try to teach Hannah how to say no and how to not let Amy walk all over her. I think Ephram deals with it really well, especially after Madison. I think he figured out how to handle Amy, and they worked really well for the most part after he learned how to have a relationship and have some upper hand in a relationship.

[secretk]

I think that he needed a bit more figuring out, but like I said in other thread in the fic that I wrote, someone teaches him how to handle her better. Basically in my fic I show what type of person could be his best friend (totally different from Bright) and well he still stays with Amy.

As for Ephram teaching Hannah how to say NO - yeah I would love that too, but to tell you the truth Ephram didn't seem disturbed a lot. I guess he had his own problems with Madison, the baby, later Kyle. Plus Hannah is also Bright's girlfriend. And Bright might not be too happy if Ephram interferes their relationship. It was a delicate situation - teaching your best friend's girlfriend how to say NO to your ex-girlfriend who is sister of your best friend. Talk about messed up . Anyway I would love such conversation.

[everwoodfan52]

I don't know if I'm the only person who feels this way...but...I know that Hannah really liked Ephram...and she certainly wanted Amy to give him another chance when she stubbornly wouldn't! And I know that Ephram admired Hannah...and when he realized that Bright was falling for her, he tried to encourage Bright to consider her.

But....I have never really seen a heart to heart normal friendly conversation between those two. The first time I saw them speak to each other, Ephram made a crack about Hannah's beret...then he tried to have a conversation with her in the school hall....very one-sided. The next time they spoke...Ephram and Hannah were on a double date and the most profound thing that Hannah said was, "Cool beans!"

The next time they spoke...I believe it was Ephram "awkwardly" trying to get Hannah to stay in Everwood for Amy's sake.

Another conversation was Ephram asking Hannah if she was alright and if she wanted to leave the Bacchanal and go to the movies with him.

When did the two of them have a real conversation? Did I miss those?

['Tos]

No, you're absolutely right, Betty. The two of them never had a real conversation that I can think of either. I think that's what bugs us so much. Another one of those wasted opportunities that we talk about so often! To have two characters that are SO similar, and to have them talk about each other to Bright and Ephram fondly, it's really too bad that they didn't take advantage of that! Berlanti's idea to have Ephram and Hannah together in any way was silly, but to show them as actual friends would have been perfect.