Dawson's Creek - True Love (Pacey/Joey)#412: "I miss 'True Love' something fierce." - Page 2

chemistry86 · 10-23-2009, 04:45 PM

I shipped PJo from season 1 because they were the sparkling part of that season...the thing that was most remarkable about season 1. I only YT the PJo scenes. I never though they would happen though and was about to quit the show before season 3

. Then I was about to quit after season 5 too and then the premiere of season 6 came...hehe

Boy the writers know how to rope us back in

courtneybangelcakes · 10-23-2009, 06:14 PM

Do you think the writers knew it, let's say S4, that they would make PJO endgame?

clarkson_fan · 10-23-2009, 09:52 PM

I have no idea. But i think maybe they didn't make the decision till the very end-well KW didn't till the very end, anyway. I think when it was time to write the series finale, KW looked back at all the seasons, watching PJ and DJ and decided which one made more sense, who had the better writing, chemistry and were over all better as a couple and decided.

Although there are so many times in season 4 where i feel like what Pacey and Joey say to each other makes it so obvious they know they are meant to be together forever. Because maybe they did know they would make them endgame, or wanted them as the endgame, anyway, but thought that they needed to grow and all that before it could be considered "Healthy" and Joey had to go back to her comfort zone once or twice, Pacey had to get over his insecurities...

But i do remember on the True Love episode commentary, Paul Stupin said something along the lines of how they finally chose Pacey and Joey to be together because of the complete romance they had and how great it was...

chemistry86 · 10-23-2009, 10:43 PM

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Do you think the writers knew it, let's say S4, that they would make PJO endgame?

No. I get the impression that they tried to make Pacey an possesive d-bag in season 4 to try to get the audience off the PJo train but the harder they tried the worse it got. To the point where they wrote out PJo scenes in season 5 to force the audience to get over them. I think they were still trying to sell DJo on the audience until season 6 when it was obvious PJo was it.

hshapir2 · 10-23-2009, 11:05 PM

thanks for the pics ali. I remember in the commentary something about how one of the writers said something about the True Love finale and said PJ were meant to be or something. I think they went back and forth on who would be together. I heard KW was convince the PJ ending was the way to go after talking to Paul Stupin I think

courtneybangelcakes · 10-24-2009, 09:37 AM

I don't know, I really think there are definite moments in S4 where it is clear that Pacey and Joey were endgame/meant to be. Moments like - "My future lies with you," the moments in Kiss-Kiss-Bang-Bang where they say "I love you" to each other, or just all the moments where they said they weren't going to leave one another, that their hearts were completely with each other. I just don't know how the writers could write that and then not think these two supposed to be together. So what I am guessing is that Paul and his writing team - they were pretty definite on PJO. But Kevin was not, until he came back and rewatched the entire series. It would literally not make sense if PJO didn't end up together out of the triangle.

**Ali Marie** · 10-24-2009, 02:53 PM

In the series finale commentary Kevin said that he didn't watch the show after he left, so he didn't see the epic that was PJ in S3 and S4. I think he said he only watched the last few eps of S6.

To answer the question, no, I don't think TPTB planned PJ to be endgame since S4. I really do think they had always planned otherwise but they wrote PJ so well, especially in S4 with all of their mentions of the future and where Joey wants to be in ten years (with Pacey). I think that, by the end, PJ had the better story and more credibility. I bet it was a last minute decision lol.

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I never got why so many people ignored that moment - how could someone say these two didn't actually care for each other during even S1. Besides the notion that you "Always tease the one you love," there was legitimate proof that they cared about one another. He was there for her, like what you said, in one of her most important moments of her life.

And this always makes me smile and makes me really think, when Andie in 4x07 is discussing how DJP have been friends, the THREE of them, since childhood. PJO did have a relationship ever since they were young, there was a past.

Exactly. Not only were they friends since they were 5 lol but they shared some of the most meaningful moments in S1. I think the banter and teasing was just their friendship dynamic... they didn't know any other way until S3 came around and their dynamic started to change.

courtneybangelcakes · 10-24-2009, 03:10 PM

It seems weird but I am glad there was no direct moment where we saw Joey fall for Pacey - I find that way more realistic. At least for me. It kind of just happens, especially when you are trying to deny it. But I love how we did see with Pacey - a pretty direct moment where he realized it. Though you could say for Joey she accepted it soon after he kissed her, really soon.

That's so weird that Kevin didn't watch his own show after he left. You'd think he'd be mega curious to watch it and such. But I do remember hearing that he stopped watching. Oh wait, that was when ASP left Gilmore Girls - she stopped watching too.

I find it so hard thinking that PJO weren't planned as endgame after everything.

wooster182 · 10-25-2009, 11:11 AM

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Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes (View Post)

I don't know, I really think there are definite moments in S4 where it is clear that Pacey and Joey were endgame/meant to be. Moments like - "My future lies with you," the moments in Kiss-Kiss-Bang-Bang where they say "I love you" to each other, or just all the moments where they said they weren't going to leave one another, that their hearts were completely with each other. I just don't know how the writers could write that and then not think these two supposed to be together. So what I am guessing is that Paul and his writing team - they were pretty definite on PJO. But Kevin was not, until he came back and rewatched the entire series. It would literally not make sense if PJO didn't end up together out of the triangle.

I thought they became end-game in S3. To me, it seemed pretty clear that they were shifting away from Dawson/Joey. As Joey tells him in Stolen Kisses and S4, Dawson knew her past but Pacey was her future. This becomes really clear at the anti-prom when Dawson makes her wear earings that aren't her taste and Pacey immediately knew it. It gets echoed again when Joey tells Dawson that she needs Pacey in S3 and he asks her if she needs Pacey like she needs Dawson. The rest of the series goes on to show us that, indeed, she does not need Dawson in the same way she needs Pacey. Dawson remains a pure, innocent friend, someone who knows how she got where she is. But Pacey became the lover and partner.

I've always thought they made a mistake in allowing KW to write the finale. He didn't know the story anymore. It made some of the dialogue, especially P/J/D awkward, but Jack and Jen's scenes were admittedly amazing.

I should say hi. Hi!

I've been a huge fan of P/J since about 9th grade and I'm 23 now, so that would be about 7 years. I've been in a very high school tv mode lately. I just rewatched BH 90210 for like the 6th time and I'm about to rewatch Dawson's again for probably the 10th. I think I'm going to start with S3 though.

Anyway, I made a vid that combines Kelly/Dylan from 90210 and Joey/Pacey. So, if you'd like to see it, you can find it here:

I made a Pacey/Joey and Kelly/Dylan fanvid. I think maybe I should have made it two separate fanvids to the same song, but I wanted to play around with the similarities of the couples. Hope you like it!

YouTube - Kelly/Dylan and Pacey/Joey: Need You Now

I've come here before, so I don't know for sure, but if you haven't added me to the fan list, I'd love to be on it!

chemistry86 · 10-25-2009, 01:18 PM

Welcome wooster

Great video, though I must confess to being a Brenda/Dylan fan!

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I've always thought they made a mistake in allowing KW to write the finale. He didn't know the story anymore. It made some of the dialogue, especially P/J/D awkward, but Jack and Jen's scenes were admittedly amazing

I agree. He wrote some weird things in the finale in regards to the triangle which no longer made sense to where the triangle had went. Especially the dancing that went on at Dawson's mom's wedding. I though P/Jo was well written but I didn't understand the D/Jo dance but I'll stop there

wooster182 · 10-25-2009, 01:22 PM

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Originally Posted by tv-fan189 (View Post)

Welcome wooster

Great video, though I must confess to being a Brenda/Dylan fan!

I agree. He wrote some weird things in the finale in regards to the triangle which no longer made sense to where the triangle had went. Especially the dancing that went on at Dawson's mom's wedding. I though P/Jo was well written but I didn't understand the D/Jo dance but I'll stop there

Thank you! I'll try to overlook you being a BD fan.

I agree about the dancing scene. I always find it kind of sad that Dawson clearly still has feelings for Joey but Joey just seems to be attracted to him in that "we used to make out" sort of way. I don't get the impression that Dawson gets to be romantically happy at the end, although he does get the thing he has always wanted most: his career.

chemistry86 · 10-25-2009, 02:06 PM

I think Dawson was resigned to the fact that Joey would end up with Pacey. That's really what I got from him considering his behavior when he happened upon any P/Jo scenes. I agree that it was very sad how it was clear he had feelings for her when Joey was more into Pacey in the finale. The only griple I have is that we only got to see the resolution in the last 30 seconds, and that we never got to hear Joey finish her speech to Pacey about 'running.'

I didn't really like that we opened up the episode with Joey with another guy in NY because I just think the finale was too centered around her choice when it should have been about telling the real truth about P/Jo post season 3. It was obvious to the dedicated fans that after season 3 they wrote a great tale for them so to dumb it down to an even weighted triangle in the finale was so annoying. Especially since I thought that it was obvious when Pacey/Joey first saw each other in the finale that they would end up together, so drawing it out was so ridiculous, ha

**Ali Marie** · 10-25-2009, 02:24 PM

I don't want us to get too off topic so let's try to get back to PJ please.

Welcome, wooster182!

I've added you.

Cute video!

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It seems weird but I am glad there was no direct moment where we saw Joey fall for Pacey - I find that way more realistic. At least for me. It kind of just happens, especially when you are trying to deny it. But I love how we did see with Pacey - a pretty direct moment where he realized it. Though you could say for Joey she accepted it soon after he kissed her, really soon.

I love that too and I agree that it's more realistic.

I think she was falling a little here,

chemistry86 · 10-25-2009, 02:29 PM

I agree that with Joey we never got any clear moments of when she started to like him. I can't even figure out when, but there are some moments where I was a bit curious. Like in FTT she was jealous of Pacey/Jen, and then in a later episode when Pacey told her that he was only being her friend because of Dawson she was upset with that.

Awww I love that scene hehe! I think she was expecting Pacey to say something else and he just said something about wanting to teach her how to drive

wooster182 · 10-25-2009, 03:19 PM

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Originally Posted by tv-fan189 (View Post)

I think Dawson was resigned to the fact that Joey would end up with Pacey. That's really what I got from him considering his behavior when he happened upon any P/Jo scenes. I agree that it was very sad how it was clear he had feelings for her when Joey was more into Pacey in the finale. The only gripe I have is that we only got to see the resolution in the last 30 seconds, and that we never got to hear Joey finish her speech to Pacey about 'running.'

I didn't really like that we opened up the episode with Joey with another guy in NY because I just think the finale was too centered around her choice when it should have been about telling the real truth about P/Jo post season 3. It was obvious to the dedicated fans that after season 3 they wrote a great tale for them so to dumb it down to an even weighted triangle in the finale was so annoying. Especially since I thought that it was obvious when Pacey/Joey first saw each other in the finale that they would end up together, so drawing it out was so ridiculous, ha

I thought that fit pretty well, although I wanted to see what had happened between the five years we missed. Had she had any romantic connection to Dawson or Pacey in those five years? I always thought she might have with Pacey.

It was a little dumbed down, but we have seen that Joey could very easily run from both Dawson and Pacey to guys she didn't really even care that much about (Jack, AJ, Eddie, and Christopher), so while I don't like the idea of Christopher, it does make sense. And his wanting to commit to her made her have to finally make a decision.

And Dawson and Joey had been confused about their feelings for each other since they were 15, so that had to be wrapped up. The major theme of the series is that D and J have to figure out what they mean to each other, and they finally do. It alsos becomes sa theme that Pacey needs to know what her feelings are too because he always assumed that she would go to him once they were broken up.

I, too, wish they would have finished her speech and half feel that KW didn't want to because he didn't want them together. BUT, it is also a good thing in that it shows that we didn't need to see the speech. Their relationship is going to be long-term. They go beyond speeches now--they are finally together for good. I mean, it's only been about a week, right? And he's already in her apartment, kissing, and able to watch Dawson's show with her happily. It was happily ever after from the word go in that kitchen.