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Old 11-23-2020, 09:27 PM
  #16
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Me too, they don't know what they've been missing lol.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:56 PM
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I miss them so much! I remember rooting for them since the beginning! They were so pure and honest with each other!

I remember cheering watching the season final when they got together!
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:59 PM
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Me too, it was such a pleasant surprise. Pacey and Joey ending up together was the right and most realistic choice too. Especially when they were the love of each others lives and had their most serious relationship with each other.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:09 AM
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Me too, it was such a pleasant surprise. Pacey and Joey ending up together was the right and most realistic choice too. Especially when they were the love of each others lives and had their most serious relationship with each other.
I still remember how shocked and thrilled I was at the ending even though now I realize the kitchen scene gave it away. Why would Joey tell Pacey that her love for him was very real if she chose Dawson?.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:07 PM
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I agree, that whole speech in the kitchen showed why she chose Pacey. Especially saying her love for him is very real and it's what has kept her running from it. She also looked like she was about to drop the bomb on him before her sister kept interrupting RME. Joey also didn't have a moment with Dawson like when her and Pacey almost kissed after their food fight. That moment was so hot too, that and the kiss at the wedding showed they never lost their spark. Pacey and Joey will ALWAYS love each other, no matter how much time passes.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:33 PM
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I agree, that whole speech in the kitchen showed why she chose Pacey. Especially saying her love for him is very real and it's what has kept her running from it. She also looked like she was about to drop the bomb on him before her sister kept interrupting RME. Joey also didn't have a moment with Dawson like when her and Pacey almost kissed after their food fight. That moment was so hot too, that and the kiss at the wedding showed they never lost their spark. Pacey and Joey will ALWAYS love each other, no matter how much time passes.
Right and her saying her love for Dawson is "pure and eternally innocent" doesn't really speak to a forever, true love, ya know? Like who looks at their partner in life and goes "we're so pure and innocent" like nah, real love is messy and not so pure and definitely not innocent, but it's real and powerful and sustaining.

And her saying she was running from her love for Pacey matches when she talked to Jen when she was all "I know who I'm supposed to be with, but I am perfectly comfortable running" like she didn't say anything about Dawson's love making her so scared that she runs.

He's family, a security blanket, comforting, but that's it. No passion, no fight, nothing remotely mature or real about it.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:04 AM
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Yep, I agree. I've said many times that Joey "loved" Dawson like you love a brother or family member. It just never felt right when they were a couple, and Joey just never even tried with Dawson but her breakup with Pacey destroyed her. I also agree that Joey NEVER had that raw and guttural passion with Dawson that she had with Pacey. Pacey made her FEEL ALIVE many times, Dawson just didn't. I could never see Dawson and Joey ending up together, especially when they didn't have a real and committed relationship to each other like Pacey and Joey did.
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:43 AM
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Yep, I agree. I've said many times that Joey "loved" Dawson like you love a brother or family member. It just never felt right when they were a couple, and Joey just never even tried with Dawson but her breakup with Pacey destroyed her. I also agree that Joey NEVER had that raw and guttural passion with Dawson that she had with Pacey. Pacey made her FEEL ALIVE many times, Dawson just didn't. I could never see Dawson and Joey ending up together, especially when they didn't have a real and committed relationship to each other like Pacey and Joey did.

Pacey and Joey both felt alive with each other. Pacey told Jen as much in the finale. I wonder if the writers used that parallel intentionally.
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:17 PM
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A Big yes to all of this. I don't know, I always saw DJ as more of a crush. They didn't give them enough couple time to ever find it believable that they would end up together.
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Old 11-26-2020, 01:24 PM
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A Big yes to all of this. I don't know, I always saw DJ as more of a crush. They didn't give them enough couple time to ever find it believable that they would end up together.
Right yeah, exactly. The only times they were together, it was like...what 2, 3 eps of happiness before it went to crap? Both times. And when it went to crap they only lasted an ep or two after that. We didn't get to see them in a long term relationship like with PJo, where we saw them fight, but work through it, and run into problems, but work through them and stay happy. Yeah, a big one got them in the end, but that was after almost a full year of being together, a full season of watching them work to stay together and work through their problems, even if one was too big for even their teenage selves.

But Djo could never even really work through the smaller problems, or if they did it was after this big dramatic, theatrical blow up instead of just an argument and a make up. And like Pacey said, they broke up at the first sign of crisis.

There are several times with PJo where they could have broken up over a the first sign of crisis, but didn't. It showed that they were the more mature couple that way, too.

And any time DJo could have gotten together after season 2, they didn't take it - when they were perfectly free and able to. Even the one time they sleep together, it's a one night stand. So much for soulmates lol.
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:01 PM
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^^^Preach!!! All of that! I've said that before too, and it's also ironic since a few bitter D/J fans still lie about Pacey and Joey doing nothing but fighting about Dawson. ALL COUPLES FIGHT, and it shows if they can make it through the long haul and the long term. Pacey and Joey had a few disagreements, and when they did they both talked it out and settled it like a real and mature couple should. It made them stronger for it too, but when D/J had those vicious fights they INSTANTLY shattered like glass, ran away from each other, and basically let the wound get worse and worse, and they would never recover. They always let the problem fester which made it worse, wheras P/J tackled it head on and came to a mutual and respectful resolution. Pacey and Joey were always honest with each other, how many times did D/J lie to each other or keep things from each other. Hell, they both cheated on each other. That never happened with P/J. Dawson and Joey never stayed a couple for long in S2 (the only season where they actually dated, or tried to) but P/J stayed a couple for a whole season/year, and had Joey telling Pacey he needs to think for two. Like I've said, Joey sounded like a wife with that line. She's never talked that way when it came to Dawson, Pacey was the reality and Dawson was the (disappointing) fantasy.

Just like with the fights lie, same with Pacey and Joey's first time sleeping together. Everyone's first time is awkward and they slept together more times after that but D/J only had a ONS since he once again lied to Joey and cheated on his girlfriend by making Joey the other woman, but I guess he couldn't pass up the opportunity since he acted like Joey's virginity was always his property and big mean Pacey stole that too so he could only take what he could get. Anyway, when Pacey and Joey had a real problem they settled it like a mature couple in love but D/J fought over dumb preschool crap and imploded instantly. P/J FOUGHT for each other tooth and nail, but D/J instantly gave up every time. Then again, Dawson usually wanted Joey when someone else did or settled for her when other girls didn't work out. Usually he didn't want her, but wanted no one else to have her either and Joey kept dumping Dawson and didn't even try. They clearly weren't that into each other. Just one of the many reasons why Pacey and Joey were the better and stronger couple. There was nothing soulmates about D/J, they made the term an overrated joke. Clearly Pacey and Joey are soulmates, especially when they did both say the other made them feel alive. That magic just wasn't there with Dawson, so it's best he ended with his creek I guess.

Last edited by Butterfly85; 11-26-2020 at 05:07 PM
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Old 11-27-2020, 01:53 AM
  #27
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^^^Preach!!! All of that! I've said that before too, and it's also ironic since a few bitter D/J fans still lie about Pacey and Joey doing nothing but fighting about Dawson. ALL COUPLES FIGHT, and it shows if they can make it through the long haul and the long term. Pacey and Joey had a few disagreements, and when they did they both talked it out and settled it like a real and mature couple should. It made them stronger for it too, but when D/J had those vicious fights they INSTANTLY shattered like glass, ran away from each other, and basically let the wound get worse and worse, and they would never recover. They always let the problem fester which made it worse, wheras P/J tackled it head on and came to a mutual and respectful resolution. Pacey and Joey were always honest with each other, how many times did D/J lie to each other or keep things from each other. Hell, they both cheated on each other. That never happened with P/J. Dawson and Joey never stayed a couple for long in S2 (the only season where they actually dated, or tried to) but P/J stayed a couple for a whole season/year, and had Joey telling Pacey he needs to think for two. Like I've said, Joey sounded like a wife with that line. She's never talked that way when it came to Dawson, Pacey was the reality and Dawson was the (disappointing) fantasy.

Just like with the fights lie, same with Pacey and Joey's first time sleeping together. Everyone's first time is awkward and they slept together more times after that but D/J only had a ONS since he once again lied to Joey and cheated on his girlfriend by making Joey the other woman, but I guess he couldn't pass up the opportunity since he acted like Joey's virginity was always his property and big mean Pacey stole that too so he could only take what he could get. Anyway, when Pacey and Joey had a real problem they settled it like a mature couple in love but D/J fought over dumb preschool crap and imploded instantly. P/J FOUGHT for each other tooth and nail, but D/J instantly gave up every time. Then again, Dawson usually wanted Joey when someone else did or settled for her when other girls didn't work out. Usually he didn't want her, but wanted no one else to have her either and Joey kept dumping Dawson and didn't even try. They clearly weren't that into each other. Just one of the many reasons why Pacey and Joey were the better and stronger couple. There was nothing soulmates about D/J, they made the term an overrated joke. Clearly Pacey and Joey are soulmates, especially when they did both say the other made them feel alive. That magic just wasn't there with Dawson, so it's best he ended with his creek I guess.
Right, exactly. And it was one of Pacey's defining faults that he was a deeply insecure person - which makes sense over the emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse he suffered because of his father - and you have Joey acting out of sorts about Dawson or weird about Dawson and of course Pacey's insecurities are gonna come up. Not that that is all Joey's fault, but I'm just saying that I think the root of a lot of their fights about Dawson was Pacey's fear and insecurities that he wasn't good enough, that he never would be and that Dawson would be better for her or that she thought he was better for her. He even talks about a fear about "another shoe dropping" in 4x02 about how he was just "gonna be a big disappointment and Dawson was gonna be the one she actually wanted" and all that.

And I mean, Dawson really didn't help that with his total obliviousness to Pacey's suffering and then when he wasn't oblivious like 5% of the time, he was saying stuff like at his birthday party. So Dawson himself played into that too. Like honestly no wonder Pacey was so insecure in their relationship.

But every time, they worked through it. They talked about it, maturely. Dawson and Joey never did that. Especially on Dawson's part, he never could handle things maturely.

And yeah she never did say anything like "you're thinking for two" when it came to Dawson, despite the "soulmates" stuff and the sometimes flowery, pretentious words used between them. They were never grounded in reality. I mean, their whole friendship was based off of getting lost in the world of movies and talking about a life rather than living it. I mean, Joey said it best in 4x02 when she was all "you know what Dawson would never do? Inspire me to go on a boat for the summer" because yEAH he wouldn't. Dawson liked the pretend romance rather than actual romance. Like his idea of romance most of the time was...watching a movie. Like?? Live a little, man. Movies are fine for some dates and all, but when it's like your life and you and your former bff now girlfriend are going on a date, don't make it about movies once again, find something different. Like that's ALL they did!

They dreamed together instead of lived. Pacey and Joey lived. I mean the series ended with Dawson living his fantasy in hollywood - making a tv show where he and Joey end up together and it can be whatever he wants it to be - and Pacey and Joey actually living their lives together.

And yeah, I think the biggest example of DJo just being a fantasy at best was after they slept together. Because Dawson literally takes her to the set of his house with lights and stuff to make it all "romantic" and well, a fantasy, like something they never got in real life. But then when Joey finds out the truth, it all crashes down and they fight and Dawson leaves, but they both reach out to the door handle on different sides, and they had the opportunity to take that doorknob, turn it and really *talk* to fix things.

But I think they both knew that it was well and truly over, the final nail in the coffin. They both *chose* to not take that doorknob and walk away. Once again, the fantasy didn't live up to reality, and they both couldn't handle the reality of a real relationship with each other.

(also it's pretty crazy that he was the second guy she ever slept with, and the last person she slept with before Dawson was Pacey. A year and some change had gone buy since she last had sex with Pacey, but still. I like to think Joey was comparing him to Pacey the whole time and found him lacking lol.)

And so much yes about wanting Joey when others had her/wanted her. Whenever they had the opportunity - were free and clear - they didn't want it. But when Pacey and Joey wanted each other, well they went for it. When Pacey realizes he still has feelings for Joey in 614, he doesn't say anything right away, no, but he doesn't wait until another guy is in her life to want her. Lol can you imagine if he'd waited to do something until 618 when Eddie comes back? But nah, he let her know he wanted her in 615 and that he was all in for a second chance. It was actually her telling him about Eddie that made him back off and let her go, not make him try harder lol.

Even his final, amazing speech to her in 624, he's telling her he's in love with her, but that if she would be happy with Dawson or Christopher or whoever else, he wants that for her because he just wants her to be happy. He doesn't selfishly want her when he feels like he's going to lose her. He's prepared to lose her. Which makes him perfect for her, because Pacey's love for Joey is not about him, it's actually about her, whereas Dawson's love is, well, mainly about him and how it revolves around him.

So like...KW, say DJ are "soulmates" all you want, but even from the first episode, they were...not good together. And in the reality of the DC world, Joey and Pacey are living happily together and in love while Dawson is alone with his fantasies and Spielberg in Hollywood lol.
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Old 11-27-2020, 07:50 PM
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I am loving all this P/Jo love. I was so amazed by them the first time I saw them. Still one of my favorite couples to this day.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:39 PM
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I totally agree with all the PJo stuff

I do feel like Dawson gets a bad wrap sometimes though. He clearly was not as great as Pacey, but he did truly care about Joey's wellbeing. I don't think they made a good romantic couple at all, but they would always have that connection. Just not an electric connection like Pacey and Joey.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:14 PM
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I agree Clarkson Fan. I agree that Pacey had insecurities cause of his ahole family. Yeah, Pacey and Joey TALKED about their problems, Dawson would usually throw a big ass temper tantrum and bail. He usually never listened to Joey and made it all about him, Pacey never did that and always put her first. Even sacrificing himself many times so she could be happy. I love that Joey told Pacey Dawson would of never inspired her to run away on his boat for a Summer, hell he never inspired her period. Pacey was better for Joey in many ways, and they grew and evolved with each other. The reality always wins out over the fantasy.
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