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Old 08-11-2019, 05:58 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by 3ku11 (View Post)
Oh yes I’m rewatching the show, on S4. Just after the big storm episode. Where end of episode Pacey apologises to The very self righteous Dawson 🤗. And they start the process of mending their friendship. I recall around S6. Dawson and Joey tRY reconciling but doesent work. Of course they are together most of their senior year. And after their break up at prom. They are apart for a few months. And reunite in Boston. In their second year at Boston they fall in love again and get back together. They break up and I think she momentarily reunites with Dawson. Around 2008 on the timeline it’s five years in the future correct me if I’m wrong. At Gales wedding old feelings return. They then get married and have children.

Funny thing is the original plan was always constructed as Dawson Joey as endgame since the pilot. But critics and fans alike praised the shows decision to make the bold decision to change that to Joey and Pacey.
I think the writers put more effort in the writing for Pacey and Joey actually in a relationship. And the decision for the finale just made better sense because of it.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:49 PM
  #287
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I think the writers put more effort in the writing for Pacey and Joey actually in a relationship. And the decision for the finale just made better sense because of it.
Right, exactly. Plus, once they put Dawson and Joey together at the end of season 1, they had a "where do we go from here" thing and I guess since they were supposed to be the main couple they broke them up early, but also they did it in a pretty poorly written way that didn't make it believable that they were more than that first puppy love kind of love. They were always immature with each other until the end as well.
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Old 08-11-2019, 08:00 PM
  #288
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Right, exactly. Plus, once they put Dawson and Joey together at the end of season 1, they had a "where do we go from here" thing and I guess since they were supposed to be the main couple they broke them up early, but also they did it in a pretty poorly written way that didn't make it believable that they were more than that first puppy love kind of love. They were always immature with each other until the end as well.
Dawson and Joey was more poetic in it being first about unrequited love. Dawson did not see Joey in that light. He was initially attracted to Jen. Of course that changed, when he saw Joey under a new light. Not to turn this into Shippers war LOL. But point made was they seemed to put little detail into their romantic relationship. The whole show seems to revolve around Joeys inability to not what she wanted. And she grew over the course of the series. Almost like she was waiting for Dawson to let her off the hook so to speak. Because the writers seemed to put more effort into Joey and Pacey's relationship. By the back in the end of the series, although the writers always had Dawson and Joey as endgame, and maybe the show could of ended that way.

But what set the show apart from other endings, other then How I met your mother possibly. Was the boldness in acknowleding Joey was not the same as she was, that 15 year old girl watching movies in Dawsons room. She was a grown women now. The forsight to acknowledge that most of her growth was down to her relationship with Pacey. They started as love/hate relationship that organically developed to a mutual attraction. They both have very similar personalities. both fighters in a way. Theirs more to work with. Funny too the creator of DC, said a reboot is always possible. And if they did bring DC back, he said Joey and Pacey would be in a weird place. Where they would be divorced, but we would watch them find each other again, and fall in love again.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:19 PM
  #289
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KW wanted to end the show with DJ. He didn't write it since season 2. The other writers might have felt differently
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:36 PM
  #290
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KW wanted to end the show with DJ. He didn't write it since season 2. The other writers might have felt differently
Okay. I just read DJ was constructed since the early seasons. I’m glad the show runners changed their minds. DJ would of been a safe ending. From what I recall majority praised the shows decision for its boldness. Other then DJ shippers of course haha.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:01 AM
  #291
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Exactly. Just like Pacey says in 321 "pretending to be grown up only to drop each other at the first sign of crisis" which is what they do even in season 5 and 6.

Pacey and Joey were together for almost a year, practically a year, and they had sh** to deal with all the time, and they made it work. Yeah they ultimately broke up (and it was handled so messily) but at least it was over something more adult and understandable - something that many people in real life probably break up over too (how are you gonna make it work after high school).

(Although with PJo it's funny how a big part of them breaking up was Pacey staying Capeside because he wasn't going to college and Joey going to Boston and them "being a world apart and you know it" and Pacey ends up in Boston anyway?)

Even in season 6, when they end their almost getting back together because it "didn't feel right" to Joey (lol yeah right) it was stupid. If they had done it when Pacey hit rock bottom with his job, however...that would have at least made sense.

Anyway, the point of the rambling lol...Dawson and Joey were actually only together for 4 months of their lives, two months for each time they were together. Very high school of them, but not much basis for being together for the rest of their lives.
Exactly!!! I'm glad you brought up what Pacey said to Dawson in that episode too. He had D/J PEGGED. He was right though and it showed in S2 and the other few times they tried, they gave up and in so EASILY. They didn't FIGHT to stay together like Pacey and Joey. They didn't go through those hard times that made them stronger as a couple at the end of the day. You FIGHT for those you love and that is what P/J did. I also agree that they dealt with ADULT situations. Not stupid immature bs like "You read my diary, you said you were in love twice, I said I slept with Jen cause you might of slept with Jack," etc. Gag me, grow up. I agree that Joey never grew with Dawson, she would of stayed stuck in the same place with the same result. She grew with Pacey. They pretty much set up their resume to reunite long term and as the love of each others lives in S4. There is no way in hell Dawson and Joey would of lasted long as an adult couple, they would of broke up in weeks just like the other failed, aborted attempts.

The other posts are great too. The writers were definitely more invested in P/J's relationship. They had a "Till death do us part" esque aura to their relationship, showing how truly in love they were. Yeah, the original ending was D/J being together but KW said when he thought on it more and slept on it, it just didn't feel right and it wouldn't have. Dawson and especially Joey were different people and it would of been like trying to fit two puzzle pieces that don't fit and never will. Pacey and Joey easily reconnected in the final episode and they picked up right where they left off. The ease of it all really showed they were meant to be together. The only ones that hate the ending are some D/J fans that are still bitter over it 16 years later. Most loved that Joey ended up with Pacey.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:01 AM
  #292
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Exactly!!! I'm glad you brought up what Pacey said to Dawson in that episode too. He had D/J PEGGED. He was right though and it showed in S2 and the other few times they tried, they gave up and in so EASILY. They didn't FIGHT to stay together like Pacey and Joey. They didn't go through those hard times that made them stronger as a couple at the end of the day. You FIGHT for those you love and that is what P/J did. I also agree that they dealt with ADULT situations. Not stupid immature bs like "You read my diary, you said you were in love twice, I said I slept with Jen cause you might of slept with Jack," etc. Gag me, grow up. I agree that Joey never grew with Dawson, she would of stayed stuck in the same place with the same result. She grew with Pacey. They pretty much set up their resume to reunite long term and as the love of each others lives in S4. There is no way in hell Dawson and Joey would of lasted long as an adult couple, they would of broke up in weeks just like the other failed, aborted attempts.

The other posts are great too. The writers were definitely more invested in P/J's relationship. They had a "Till death do us part" esque aura to their relationship, showing how truly in love they were. Yeah, the original ending was D/J being together but KW said when he thought on it more and slept on it, it just didn't feel right and it wouldn't have. Dawson and especially Joey were different people and it would of been like trying to fit two puzzle pieces that don't fit and never will. Pacey and Joey easily reconnected in the final episode and they picked up right where they left off. The ease of it all really showed they were meant to be together. The only ones that hate the ending are some D/J fans that are still bitter over it 16 years later. Most loved that Joey ended up with Pacey.
He totally did and I dunno why the writers didn't look at what they wrote and go "that's so write, let's drop D/J" lol. Probably because they were supposed to be the big soulmate couple and all that....but whenever they brought DJ together they broke them apart just as quickly as if they just never wanted to write them in a relationship again. And definitely by season 5 and 6 it would have been too weird. Like just their one night stand and glimpse of more was weird. They just didn't fit, ever. It never felt natural.

I mean in season 2 they broke up over Joey wanting to find herself, which is funny because she spent all of season 1 wanting him and then when she had him she didn't actually really want him. But then when they were with others they got so jealous and annoying? And not in a fun way like with PJ in the few instances they were jealous, but like...totally immature, whiny, gross, like in Sex, She Wrote, like you mentioned.

And then Joey breaks up with Dawson again over her father, which...Dawson was annoyed and pushed the issue, sure, but it felt like Joey took the first opportunity to break up with him more than the punishment fitting the crime type of thing.

Pacey and Joey fought a lot but they worked through it and apologized and grew as a couple every time. They could have EASILY broke up over Pacey's school situation and how he treated her in 4x02, but they handled it maturely (once Pacey got his head out of his ass) and talked about it and worked through it together. Things like that.

And with DJ, it felt like basically every event, every conversation, every argument, was some existential crisis that needed to be talked to death without actually talking about the heart of the issue, and it was more about poetic prose and the meaning of life than about them and their relationship. And honestly, I think DJ's fights were way worse than PJ's ever were. Not that PJ didn't have their fights and immature moments, but with DJ it was like...blow ups and ultimatums and wayyy melodramatic and so on.

And oh man, if Joey had chosen Dawson...it's like, well first of all, she lived in New York, he in LA, Dawson is selfish so he probably wouldn't have moved out there for her, especially while his show was just getting started, and then she might have moved for him, but then he would have worked all the time, Joey would have been miserable, and she would have either used the first excuse to break up with him again or they would have gotten into a blow out once again. I mean, they had it in 6x02 and that was basically the end of them, so it would have just been the same thing all over again if Joey had ended up with Dawson.

At least with Pacey, Joey grew as a person, and Pacey grew too. They were both in such good places, so mature and they only nourish that growth with each other.

And I will always refuse KW's headcanon that they get divorced just for the ~drama of it all. They've already done the break up thing, two times, they wouldn't need to do it again.

Because like I've always imagined they took a few years to just be together, work out their issues, get even closer and stronger as a couple, and work out things between New York and Capeside - like if Pacey opened a restaurant in New York, maybe - before they even got married or had kids. Like I'm thinking 3-5 years down the the line from the series finale, you know? I see them as solid as can be when they got married and worked out all the kinks by then.

Because they both learn from their mistakes and grew up, I don't see them falling into the same traps they did the firs time they were together, unlike DJ, especially with Dawson firmly in the friend role and there no longer being a love triangle, you know?
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:09 AM
  #293
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Exactly!!! I'm glad you brought up what Pacey said to Dawson in that episode too. He had D/J PEGGED. He was right though and it showed in S2 and the other few times they tried, they gave up and in so EASILY. They didn't FIGHT to stay together like Pacey and Joey. They didn't go through those hard times that made them stronger as a couple at the end of the day. You FIGHT for those you love and that is what P/J did. I also agree that they dealt with ADULT situations. Not stupid immature bs like "You read my diary, you said you were in love twice, I said I slept with Jen cause you might of slept with Jack," etc. Gag me, grow up. I agree that Joey never grew with Dawson, she would of stayed stuck in the same place with the same result. She grew with Pacey. They pretty much set up their resume to reunite long term and as the love of each others lives in S4. There is no way in hell Dawson and Joey would of lasted long as an adult couple, they would of broke up in weeks just like the other failed, aborted attempts
.

good points

Quote:
The other posts are great too. The writers were definitely more invested in P/J's relationship. They had a "Till death do us part" esque aura to their relationship, showing how truly in love they were. Yeah, the original ending was D/J being together but KW said when he thought on it more and slept on it, it just didn't feel right and it wouldn't have. Dawson and especially Joey were different people and it would of been like trying to fit two puzzle pieces that don't fit and never will. Pacey and Joey easily reconnected in the final episode and they picked up right where they left off. The ease of it all really showed they were meant to be together. The only ones that hate the ending are some D/J fans that are still bitter over it 16 years later. Most loved that Joey ended up with Pacey.
agree

KW said when he was making Cursed, he worked with Julie Plec and said How about Pacey and Joey ending up together and she smiled and I think he or she said perfect

I heard 622 was originally going to be the finale and Joey was going to end up alone. I felt like 622 was negative with Dj. Joey laughed about sharing a bed with Dawson and said she didn't miss being fifteen
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:31 PM
  #294
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And I will always refuse KW's headcanon that they get divorced just for the ~drama of it all. They've already done the break up thing, two times, they wouldn't need to do it again.

This is one of the reasons I don't want a revival. KW's idea for Pacey and Joey doesn't sound original. They have already split and found their way back. It's the same song and dance.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:39 PM
  #295
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I definitely would of wanted Joey to end up alone than with Dawson, that's for sure lol but I'm glad she ended up with Pacey. I also agree that Dawson and Joey's fights were the most vicious ones next to Mitch and Gail.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:46 PM
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The other writers were there longer than KW. They might have had a different vision
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:49 AM
  #297
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This is one of the reasons I don't want a revival. KW's idea for Pacey and Joey doesn't sound original. They have already split and found their way back. It's the same song and dance.
Yeah well he did say they would get married, have kids. But get divorced. But we would see them fall in love again and reunite. Its a blueprint that works. But not an original story arch.

Thing with Joey and Pacey and Dawson. I do feel with Dawson living in LA, and Joey NY. Would Dawson make any compromises? He wasen't willing in S2. What would change? Pacey said so in S4, he would go where ever Joey went. And he did.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:58 AM
  #298
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Yeah well he did say they would get married, have kids. But get divorced. But we would see them fall in love again and reunite. Its a blueprint that works. But not an original story arch.

Thing with Joey and Pacey and Dawson. I do feel with Dawson living in LA, and Joey NY. Would Dawson make any compromises? He wasen't willing in S2. What would change? Pacey said so in S4, he would go where ever Joey went. And he did.
Exactly, it seemed like in the finale that Pacey moved to NY to be with Joey. I think KW even said he could see Pacey moving to NY and maybe opening his own restaurant. He said that he saw Pacey and Joey having a day to day life together better than Dawson and Joey.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:12 PM
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And we can't forget about the chemistry. The difference between the amount of chemistry between Pacey and Joey vs the lack of chemistry between Dawson and Joey.

Even though KW was only there for 2 seasons, he admits that when they paired Pacey and Joey (Josh/Katie) for the Double Date episode, it was clear then that there was something between them on screen that was lacking with Dawson/Joey and KW said that they would explore that later on. So even though KW wasn't there for S3, the other show runners were fully aware of the incredible chemistry between them and it made sense to use that, unlike Dawson/Joey who just seemed to lack any chemistry at all.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:37 PM
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Yeah well he did say they would get married, have kids. But get divorced. But we would see them fall in love again and reunite. Its a blueprint that works. But not an original story arch.

Thing with Joey and Pacey and Dawson. I do feel with Dawson living in LA, and Joey NY. Would Dawson make any compromises? He wasen't willing in S2. What would change? Pacey said so in S4, he would go where ever Joey went. And he did.
It's just like in S4 when Pacey told Joey to cut him loose if she needs to, to move on to bigger things Joey said she wouldn't do that. She wanted them to be together, another thing they fought for with their relationship. They both weren't willing to drop the other and move on, they wanted their lives to be together. Joey also said Pacey is her future. Those are MORE things showing why it was Pacey that Joey should end up with. Some also whine about KW only being there two seasons but like it was already said, he was planning to pair Pacey and Joey all the way back in S1. He recognized the chemistry and knew it was a goldmine they would return to. People that still ignore all this stuff are just chewing sour grapes and nothing else. The evidence was always there for Pacey and Joey to end up together.
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