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#91 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,614
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Some season three background.
All the writers, except one, including Kevin Williamson quit after season two. Season three started like a ship without a rudder. They were all over the place. The new writers did not know where to go with the story and in my opinion did not really have a feel for the show. This is why there were many aborted story lines and story lines that went no where. Jen the cheer leader, Jack the football player, Pacey and Jen, having a friends with benefits relationship and some others that escape my memory at this time. The actors were in rebellion. For example they wanted Pacey and Jen to have a scene where they had sex in a bathroom stall. Both Joshua Jackson and Michelle Williams refused to do the scene. Things were so out of control and directionless production was actually shut down. in a writers brainstorming session Greg Berlanti came up with let's have pacey kiss Joey. All the other writers were against it. they couldn't believe that Pacey would screw over his best friend. Eventually Berlanti won them over. With in my opinion the help of Paul Stupin and maybe the network. I strongly believe the network was involved, but I can not prove it at this time. By having pacey kiss Joey; they more or less repudiated the first two seasons. The original conflict within the show was the triangle between Joey/Dawson/Jen. Which girl would win the affections of the Dawson, the character the show was named after. Would the girl who secretly had a crush on Dawson for years or the new girl with the fast background win Dawson. Pacey at this time was intended to be more or less a background character. His main role was to be the best friend of the hero. Meredith Monroe (Andie) was brought to the show specifically to be Pacey's girlfriend ane the was they were written season two; She was going to remain Pacey's girlfriend while Dawson struggled to figure out who he wanted; Joey or Jen. Kevin Williamson in my opinion wrote one of the best romances ever depicted on TV. When they came to season three and the decision to have Pacey kiss Joey; Andie was a major obstacle. The writers now had to break up a very popular couple. So with lazy writing and a heavy handed strike they took Andie totally out of character and changed her into a cheating lying ****. Pacey who was now the offended party was free to pursue Joey. The entire fabric of the show was now changed. The triangle shifted from Joey/Dawson/Jen to Pacey/Joey/Dawson. Pacey as originally written would not have abandoned Andie nor go after his best friends girlfriend. By having Pacey kiss Joey; en and Andie more or less became baggage, with really no purpose any longer on the show. Pacey kisses Joey has been hailed as the move that saved Dawson's Creek. In fact a book was written about it by Jeffery Stepkoss (sp) who was a writer on the show. "Bllion Dollar Kiss" The show was changed and you now had Pacey/Joey; which several fans wanted. Mainly because Katie and Josh dated season one. While everyone was patting themselves on the back for the brilliant move, the viewership of the show quietly diminished by 1.4 million viewers per episode. While many fans were elated by Pacey kisses Joey and the complete ruination of Andie, many fans walked away from the show in disgust over season three. Season three also started the show to, in my opinion, the fatal down slide of Joey's Creek. Season four which they thought would be the last season of Dawson Creek; Meredith Monroe was brought back to reprise her role as Andie and again season six when the show was ending they brrought back Meredith Monroe to play Andie. To me that was an indication they knew they made a mistake. Kevin Williamson ended the show Pacey and joey which thrilled many viewers, but also angered many viewers who rightfully expected the series to end Dawson/Joey. among the Dawson Joey fans were Williamson's mother and Greg Berlanti who started the mess. If one is a fan of Everwood you can see where Berlanti avoided several of the mistakes that were made in Dawson's Creek season three. Season three was misguided and started the slow downfall of a once wonderful show. I can not even watch seasons five an six and the episode "Downtown Crossing is one of the worst episodes in the history of TV My two cents. Last edited by TL22; 09-23-2015 at 03:12 PM |
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#92 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
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As many times as I've watched DC, I have only watched the "Downtown Crossing" episode twice and still can't figure out why the writers felt that would be an interesting story to tell or how it really fit into the rest of the storyline, but that's another season so I won't rant about that here I agree that the writers had some very sloppy writing and there were so many inconsistencies and it bugs me every time I watch the show. One example is Pacey's birthday, in S2 he's having a dock party for his birthday and everyone is in bathing suits enjoying the warm weather and then in S4 his birthday is in the cold season. It's so cold in fact that Pacey's dad takes him his jacket and gives Pacey his gloves. Now I'm getting way OT, sorry guys. I'll stop now. As far as the Jen being a cheerleader and Jack being a football player in S3, I kind of agree that it didn't make a lot of sense. As much as I enjoyed the fact that Jack was a football player as that did make for a pretty good storyline (Dawson's news footage about the gay high school football player), I was disappointed that they turned the group around from the original storyline where they aren't really joiners and don't attend dances or get involved in school activities. I found that part believable as not every high school group are into that. And Jen as a cheerleader and the way they had that whole less than enthusiastic group of new cheerleaders was just plain weird IMO. __________________
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#93 | |||
Elite Fan
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I hated all the inconsistencies too. Another thing about Pacey's birthday is that he was still 16 in A Cinderella Story episode 3x17 and he turned 18 in 4x12. When did Pacey turn 17? It's a minor thing but when you put all the writing errors together it bugs me.
Don't get me started on Downtown Crossing. __________________
Christina
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#94 | |||
Cardcaptor Queen
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42,072
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Which episode is Downtown Crossing? Must be S5 or 6 which are the seasons I don't care about that much. Well, many shows have wierd, unfinished storylines all the time. DC isn't the first to have that happen, writers try out storylines or experiment and if it doesn't work out it's scrapped. Happens all the time *Shrugs* To each their own but S3 is still my favorite season.
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#95 | |||
Elite Fan
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Downtown Crossing is a Joey centered episode in season 5. No other cast member is in it, but Joey. She gets robbed at night, but then the man gets hit by a car, I think. Haven't seen it a lot. Anyway, she goes to the hospital, meets his wife and daughter and makes parallels with her own father.
The thing is they use the whole episode for Joey with no major followup, no major story with her father. And I have no problem with Joey, but I can see why some would be annoyed with the show turning into "Joey's Creek." especially with this episode. Season 3 may have it's problems, but it's nothing compared to S5 to stay kind of OT. __________________
Christina
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#96 | |||
Cardcaptor Queen
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 42,072
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Oh yeah. I had a feeling it was the episode that Joey was robbed in but I wasn't completely sure. I think I only watched that episode once, back when it aired in 2001 lol. S5 is the worst season IMO, so no wonder I didn't remember the episode. The only thing I really remember about S5 is that Mitch died smh (ugh why) but that's it. Nothing else to really remember. I also agree the show started to focus on Joey way too much. Even though I couldn't stand Dawson after S3 the show is called DAWSON'S Creek and I do remember in S6 Dawson was missing from many episodes Pacey and Jen were absent from alot of episodes too. I heard Joey is the only person to appear in all the episodes.
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#97 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 922
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To me the show was always Joey's Creek. In the beginning I didn't watch for Dawson's sake I watched for hers, and according to the media at the time, many others did too. I wanted her with Dawson in S1 because I was rooting for her, not because I cared about Dawson. But I'm more of a champion of the underdog. During the original run I stopped watching after the second-to-last episode of Season 4, and only began watching again in Season 6, from Clean and Sober to that episode after Castaways. Then, of course, the finale. But I did keep up with the show through the message boards, and I did finally watch the entirety of Seasons 5 and 6 on Netflix. It didn't bother me so much that Dawson and everyone else weren't shown as much, it bothered me that the show itself sucked. I agree that Season 5 was the worst season, with Downtown Crossing being the stupidest, most pointless episode of them all. I remember reading about everyone's frustration with it, but I didn't see why until I watched it. No one was exaggerating. The first few episodes of Season 3 were pretty stupid. I was so glad when they dropped that Eve storyline. It was so unbelievable.
I didn't like Henry either. He and Jen had zero chemistry. __________________
* ~ * ~ * Last edited by Azaiya; 09-24-2015 at 06:18 PM |
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#98 | |||
Fan Forum Hero
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 70,690
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Joey was my favorite and I still liked her this season, I hate how selfish and annoying Dawson got.
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#99 | |||
Fan Forum Star
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 100,688
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in my most recent re-watch of season 3 I did like Cinderella Story and Neverland but after that no also totally agree about the show becoming too focused on Joey in the later seasons and she became a total Mary Sue (definitely prefer her the most in the first 2 seasons) about Downtown Crossing it’s an unpopular opinion but I think it’s actually a standout episode of season 5 (would it have maybe made more sense in like the earlier seasons when her father was actually on the show? probably...okay I’m seeing now that it led into her going to find him at the end of season 5 - I forgot) |
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#100 | |||
Part-Time Fan
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 306
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Season 3 was so uncomfortable to watch. If it wasn't for my curiosity of whether Dawson and Joey would end up together, I would've dropped the show that season. I ended up being disappointed anyway ...
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Ryan & Marissa, Seth & Summer, Damon & Elena, Nate & Serena, Chuck & Blair, Cole & Phoebe, Dawson & Joey
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#101 | |||
New Fan
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 7
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So out of character. Why did everyone get mad at Dawson and they expected him to “accept” that? Oh sure, my best friend moves on the love of my life behind my back and now I’ll be happy for them? Of course, he should move on from it and let them be, but stay friends? Absolutely not. Everyone in this World would be very hurt and would maybe stay courteous with them but not friends. Obviously any PJo shipper never lived through something similar or they just would do something like Pacey did and wouldn’t care about their friend. Love has nothing to do with it. You choose to fall in love, otherwise if this was ok, then everyone should just do whatever they want and hurt anyone they want without boundaries. Life doesn’t work that way. I felt like ok, they wanted to somehow relive DC as a tv show with a new twist, but making it look like it was destined to be, true love and crap like that when they hurt Dawson to the core, that was ridiculous. Finale I’m not going to even bother mentioning, forced and silly. |
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#102 | ||||
Part-Time Fan
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 306
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You could argue that Dawson saw her as the love of her life but she didn't see him that way. Ok fine, let's say that is the case. Why tease out their relationship for six seasons as being these soulmates and star crossed lovers and then pull the rug underneath them right at the end? If they always had the intent of a Joey/Pacey endgame why break them up so brutally in season 4? Why also have her reject him very brutally in season 6 when she tells him that being with him doesn't feel right even if everything is perfect and saying that it's not going anywhere and then literally straight after goes to another man (Eddie)? You could argue that she was in denial about her feelings but those actions do not reflect someone in denial but rather someone who is actively and directly rejecting a person. The dialogue to me demonstrates that she was very much conscious of what she was doing and owned how she felt. She was very firm and blunt and delivered her proclamation without a shred of hesitation. Quote:
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#103 | |||
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Okay, so it's many MANY years since lots of us endured the unfortunate downfall of this show and I still feel the need to come here + share my view that season 3 was one of the most disappointing and fraudulent seasons of television I have ever sat through in my life. Andie's character assassination had SO much to do with that and I was pretty much emotionally done once that happened. How can you go from Pacey and Andie declaring their undying love for each other in the season 2 penultimate episode after he helped her through the toughest struggle of her life, and then witness them breaking up just a few months later because apparently some stranger at rehab was too hard for her to resist? I feel that they did tremendous harm to the amazing character development of Andie during season 2 with this turnaround. Meredith Monroe worked her butt off to be taken seriously as a new cast member, specifically playing somebody who had mental issues unlike the other more lucky girls in the show whose biggest problems involved their love lives. But the fact that the the writers of season 3 - many of whom were completely in the wake of Kevin Williamson's departure and also with the support of Greg Berlanti who judging by season 4's opener was a huge P/Jer -- the fact that these people (and I don't include Kevin in this, I must stress) felt they had to destroy her love for Pacey and her self-esteem in an off-screen betrayal that was clearly done just to make the transition to Pacey and Joey's relationship easier... Well, it says it all, really. And the handling of Dawson and Joey's relationship in this season was equally terrible. NO WAY would Dawson have rejected Joey sexually (does nobody remember him making a move on her in the boat in a late season 2 episode? What kind of bad continuity... ) and NO WAY would he treat her like his property. This is also character assassination and it was clearly done to appease Pacey fans who wanted him to play the romantic hero by the end of the season. That episode near the end of the season where Dawson and Pacey compete against each other in the boat race is just offensive to Dawson's character on so many levels. But I've said before and I still believe it: when they lost Kevin Williamson, they lost the plot entirely. It became JOEY'S CREEK. Dawson became the pathetic crying bystander who had to painfully watch the love of his life run towards his best friend. Sorry, but I never signed up for this. __________________
"Ele, I waited for you for a year. Trust me, I'd never ruin something so beautiful." Edoardo ♥ Eleonora Skam Italia icon Gwen |
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#104 | |||
Fan Forum Star
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 100,688
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Andie McPhee Deserved Better (BLOG)
Andie’s character assassination was among the worst I have ever seen on a TV show
A good read Quote:
Last edited by atwoodsmariano; 02-18-2023 at 03:01 PM |
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