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Old 01-10-2012, 09:42 AM
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I don't understand why this storyline wasn't given a bigger priority in the series. It was like the years of verbal abuse and whatnot didn't really matter

Exactly it made no sense whatsoever to me!
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:14 PM
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I only liked season 2 Pacey. When he was with Andie, and he was more confident and secure than he ever had been and ever would be again. IMO Joey could never have been the "love of his life" because he hated himself when he was with her. I believe he loved her, but you can never love somebody if you don't love yourself.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:18 PM
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I only liked season 2 Pacey. When he was with Andie, and he was more confident and secure than he ever had been and ever would be again. IMO Joey could never have been the "love of his life" because he hated himself when he was with her. I believe he loved her, but you can never love somebody if you don't love yourself.
Pacey had serious emotional problems, his family emotional abused him for years, he was still the insecure doesnt think he's good enough screw up boy when he was with tamara, he still believed he wasn't good enough during andie, his self esteem may have improved but even after andie, he still never thought he was good enough, joey was not the cause of his emotional problems, never has. never will be....the cause of his problems are his family, he should of been in therapy because all of that damage took a toll on him. Point is, Pacey hated himself and never thought he was good enough during any of his relationships. I always notice how people blamed Joey for this(Not that I'm saying you did), that's a load of garbage.

If you've watched the series, all six seasons(including the series finale) you'd see that it was never the girl that he was dating at the time that made him feel like crap, it was emotional damage his family did to him.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:44 AM
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I wouldn't go as far as to say hate but I don't see how the writers never saw more potential in Pacey than what you wrote right there. Every time he took a step forward he'd take two back and as a viewer that kind of repetition got kind of irritating.

I don't understand why this storyline wasn't given a bigger priority in the series. It was like the years of verbal abuse and whatnot didn't really matter
It was odd that we only saw his family all together in one season 4 episode (I don't think his mother appears at any other time?) And his Dad maybe a couple of appearances in a season. You saw a lot of Dawson, Joey's, and Jen's families as recurring cast members, so it was interesting that Pacey's family played such an insigificant role. Even his dad hugging him at the end of season 2 always felt a bit random because it's never mentioned again from what I remember, and before then he had only ever appeared in about two episodes anyway, so why not spend a little time on an arc there before suddenly having Pacey's dad hug and accept him in such an out of the blue moment that just kind of stands there on its own. The episode with Pacey's crying on the beach shows that they could have got a lot more powerful emotion from his relationship with his Dad, but ultimately the writers had it play such a small part with maybe one or two scenes in a season

And I agree that Pacey's insecurities weren't Joey's fault, it got annoying to me at times when season 4 kept emphasizing how being around Joey made him feel like nothing, because I never thought she did anything wrong in their relationship
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Unfaithful~ (View Post)
I only liked season 2 Pacey. When he was with Andie, and he was more confident and secure than he ever had been and ever would be again. IMO Joey could never have been the "love of his life" because he hated himself when he was with her. I believe he loved her, but you can never love somebody if you don't love yourself.
I agree with Sara. I am not attending Pacey's pity party! I love this op.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:34 AM
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I agree that season 2 is the only season that Pacey is somewhat bearable. I made a more detailed post on my blog about some of the reasons I don't like Pacey if anyone wants to check it out the address is http://tvforoneandall.blogspot.com.a...ey-witter.html
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:05 AM
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I think people are missing a few obvious points about Pacey's emotional problems. While it is true to say that no one should 'blame' Joey for them, the fact is that when Pacey was with Andie he began to get his emotional problems sorted out - partly because she gave him the confidence to see himself as a good human being - while when he was with Joey, things got worse for him (because she made him feel like 'nothing'). He was starting to be a good student by the end of season two, by the end of season four he was lucky to graduate. This is not Joey's 'fault' so much as the fact that he was in the wrong relationship, which undermined his self-confidence. And who can blame him to some extent. if you were going out with a person who thought that their ex-boyfriend was the greatest human being on the planet and their soul mate, that would have a negative affect on your emotional confidence. Again, it isn't Joey's 'fault' that she feels like this about Dawson (the reason for the show after all was that they were soul mates), but the two of them should really have realised that they weren't good for each other. She didn't 'do' anything to Pacey, but she certainly never provided what I would call an emotionally safe context in which Pacey could begin to address his family difficulties. it is rather amazing that even though Andie was effectively going through a breakdown throughout season 2, she managed to stabilise Pacey and help him to seethe potential he had - and she was prepared to talk to Pacey's father and give him some home truths (see the Season 2 finale). Can anyone really imagine Joey intervening like that? Not possible. I like Pacey, but certainly don't feel pity for him. I do worry about his long term psychological health now that he is with Joey again (because - as his behaviour in the final episodes prove - he is still emotionally damaged and acting out).
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:38 AM
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I think it is pretty clear that Andie was a much better match for Pacey and helped keep him stable. However, just because his family had affected him badly he still shouldn't have behaved like he did. For example the way he treats his brother Doug throughout the series by calling him gay and insinuating this even before he has came out is something that isn't necessary and that was used for comedy but I think it just made him look like a jerk.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:07 AM
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I always thought that while Joey and Dawson and the other series regulars eventually grew up and at least started to make a life for themselves outside of Capeside that Pacey was the one who always struggled and I don't blame Dawson and Joey for the fact that after Andie left he always seemed to be able to take two steps forward and then two steps back and Pacey seemed like Peter Pan or the kid who never grew up in my opinion.

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I hated pacey by the end of the show when he being insecure and sleeping with an engaged woman, losing Dawsons' money, failing, getting arrested, getting into fights, not going to college, dating his best friend's girl, and getting fired.
I think that the real problem was that while everyone else moved forward and grew up that with Pacey that there was one terrible decision after another and while the show turned into "The Creek" or "Pacey's Place" that the writers in my opinion never saw much potential in Pacey because to me if the writers and powers that be did I think we would've seen more storylines and not just watching Pacey make self-destructive decisions over and over again. I also thought that Joey wasn't the love of Pacey's life because he always seemed to feel that he was never good enough for her and to me if someone is the love of someone's life that someone shouldn't constantly feel like they aren't good enough for their boyfriend or girlfriend. Even in the end it always seemed to me that whenever Joey and Pacey had problems she ran to Dawson without even thinking twice and there was no indication that this was ever going to stop. I don't think Joey did anything wrong to make Pacey feel bad about himself per se but, I don't think that dating her helped him at all and that unlike Joey who would run to Dawson when they had problems Andie was the person who actually made him feel good about himself and she was the only person who was going to force Pacey to grow up and deal with things constructively and once Andie left Pacey's storylines all seemed to repeat themselves and the writers failed to move his character forward in my opinion.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:13 AM
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I agree that he never really seemed to move forward or grow up. I think this made it feel so imporssible to me that he ended up so successful by the end of the show and owned his own restaurant
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:12 PM
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you know, i held onto a little bit of like for pacey during my season one and two rewatch. i really did! and i was pleasantly surprised to watch pacey continue to bloom during the beginning of season three... until his feelings for joey emerged and he slid right back into me wanting to punch his face in a la season one and his beyond unforgivable relationship with tamara. what's worse is how pacey belittles the dawson/joey relationship while, not only betraying his BEST FRIEND, but then has the breathtaking audacity to be snide about dawson in the first couple of eps of season four! oh, and let's not mention how jealous he is of joey for getting, gasp, a job! the only person to blame for you being a simpleton IS YOURSELF! my god! the writers just blew up his character up for me, without any hope of recovery. EVERRR!

i seriously cannot wait until pacey ends up dumping joey at prom. dawson said to her face, this. will. happen! WELP! now, if only i can forever avoid the series finale. #ithinkijustmight
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:56 PM
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I didnt like when he was with Joey. He never did anything romantic for her imo but yet for the others he did. I love Pacey when he's romantic, not depressed. He was more tolerable with Andie and Audrey imo. He didn't hesitate to do anything romantic (airport, flower, etc.) but with joey, nope. I never saw anything.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Eclarexdelena (View Post)
I didnt like when he was with Joey. He never did anything romantic for her imo but yet for the others he did. I love Pacey when he's romantic, not depressed. He was more tolerable with Andie and Audrey imo. He didn't hesitate to do anything romantic (airport, flower, etc.) but with joey, nope. I never saw anything.
I find it funny how people see things so differently.

I am first and foremost a Josh Jackson fan, so the whole debate on who Pacey should have ended up with takes a back burner for me. However, I still am a Pacey fan. I only saw DC for the first time last year after becoming a JJ fan while watching Fringe.

I felt that Pacey put way more into the relationship with Andie than she did and that was proven on several occasions, so I was not surprised or disappointed when that relationship ended. With Audrey, that was more for fun right from the beginning and although the airport scene was romantic, it was much too early on for it to be a big gesture of love. With Joey, they had a lot of history, so it was a growing relationship based on mutual respect and acceptance. To say that Pacey did not do any huge romantic gesture is not true because after all he did buy (leased) her a wall. Most of his romantic gestures were more personal, like telling her that she was beautiful or that she deserved to go to Worthington (and that whole speech there).

I liked all of Pacey's relationships but only because I like watching Pacey and how he was with each one of them. Josh is an amazing actor and made each relationship unique.

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:44 AM
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I have to disagree with Pacey put more into his relationship with Andie then she put in.

Andie took him from being a loser to a pretty self-confident good student. That takes a lot of hard work and emotional involvement.

Pacey was there for Andie for her mother and when she had her breakdown. They had a close loving relationship that never should have been ended the way it was.

Pacey is also a total hypocrite. His refusal to dance with Andie and then jumping all over Christy Livingstone first chance he got...Most girls would have sent him packing for good after that one.

His telling Andie that it would be an honour to take her to the prom when his only motives was to be there to see Joey and or spy on Joey and Dawson. Pacey knowingly took advantage of her feelings for him.

The great moral Pacey having the affair with the married woman at the end of the series.

Then the stupidest line ever in the show. When he told Andie that he suspected his was not enough for her, because she slipped into mental illness. Effectively meaning if they loved each other more she would have not went nuts. The writer who came up with that line should have been fired and never allowed to write again.


I don't agree with the venue Pacey choose to tell off Joey (Promicide), but everything he said was pretty accurate.

Overall I like Pacey, but he is not the super good guy of the series.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:16 PM
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I have to disagree with Pacey put more into his relationship with Andie then she put in. Andie took him from being a loser to a pretty self-confident good student. That takes a lot of hard work and emotional involvement.
Joey did too in Season 4, he was starting getting A's and was able to do all of the Sr. year courses and make up the three he failed which happened with Joey's help. They just didn't focus on that because they already did with the Andie/Pacey storyline.

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Pacey is also a total hypocrite. His refusal to dance with Andie and then jumping all over Christy Livingstone first chance he got...Most girls would have sent him packing for good after that one.
I agree that was a dick move, but technically they weren't dating at all at that point, so to send him packing would have been premature for that relationship.

Quote:
His telling Andie that it would be an honour to take her to the prom when his only motives was to be there to see Joey and or spy on Joey and Dawson. Pacey knowingly took advantage of her feelings for him.
In Pacey's apology to Andie he did say that he thought when he asked her to Prom it was because he wanted to go to prom with her and it wasn't until he got there that he even realized himself that it was because Joey was going to be there, so that was not an intentional insincere gesture.

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The great moral Pacey having the affair with the married woman at the end of the series.
No one ever said he was moral, if anything it was consistently eluded to the fact that he didn't really have morals (starting back in S1)

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Then the stupidest line ever in the show. When he told Andie that he suspected his was not enough for her, because she slipped into mental illness. Effectively meaning if they loved each other more she would have not went nuts. The writer who came up with that line should have been fired and never allowed to write again.
That line was never about her mental state, it was about her sleeping with Mark and that the fact that their love wasn't strong enough the first time was what Pacey was talking about.

Quote:
I don't agree with the venue Pacey choose to tell off Joey (Promicide), but everything he said was pretty accurate.
I don't necessarily disagree with this statement; however, there were times in their relationship that Joey reassured Pacey about things, so she was supportive to some degree.

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Overall I like Pacey, but he is not the super good guy of the series.
Was there really ever a super good guy of the series? Thanks, I enjoyed debating these topics. It's fun in a very friendly way.

Last edited by JJH85; 12-28-2013 at 02:21 PM
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