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Old 07-20-2005, 10:52 AM
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Episode Discussion # 416 - "Mind Games"





The results of the Senior Polls have ramifications for Dawson, Joey, and Pacey, as the three try to ignore the tauntings of pollmaster Drue Valentine. While Pacey and Joey try to eke out some time alone together, Dawson finds his night alone with Gretchen more awkward than he'd expected. Meanwhile, Jack's suspicious when Jen drags him on some mysterious errands, and his suspicions are confirmed when he realizes just what she's up to.
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:07 PM
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Oh oh totally love this episode
I love Joey being uncomfortable with the Gretchen and Dawson thing,I love Pacey being uncomfortable with Joey being uncomfortable with the Gretchen and Dawson thing, I love Gratchen for what she said to Joey (totally deserved),I love Drue for telling Dawson that Joey and him are more than friends and always will be. I dislike Joey lying to the universe (Pacey ,Dawson,Gratchen and herself) ,I feel bad for Pacey but I appreciate Dawson's gesture toward Pacey and Joey and his apology for asking something too personal to her.
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:50 PM
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Took the words out of my moth Lor - 'far and away the more compelling couple'
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Old 07-20-2005, 03:07 PM
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Gotta to love Drue saying Dawson and Joey are the more compelling couple (So True) but I think it was nice that Dawson changed it and that he told Joey he was sorry for asking the question about her sleeping with Pacey.*
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Old 07-20-2005, 03:50 PM
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Yeah, it was really nice of Dawson to do that - too nice
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Old 07-20-2005, 04:32 PM
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I agree you gotta love Drue for so many reasons but most of all because he told it like he saw it even if nobody wanted to admit he was RIGHT. Also wish we had gotten another season of those amazing blue eyes of his ahhh.
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Old 07-21-2005, 12:40 AM
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Mind Games: The web of lies
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:27 AM
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Nagi, SO true!
And I loved Gretchen's comment to Joey, she totally deserved that.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:46 AM
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I really did like this episode a lot because it made Joey squirm and it made Dawson look glaringly clueless in reference to his "soulmate" (which is always a plus for me).

Joey was uncomfortable with the Gretchen/Dawson situation not because she was staying at Dawsons but because Gretchen knew that Pacey and Joey had had sex and Joey was worrying about her lie becoming apparent to Dawson. Even though Joeys lie really didnt end up having much consequence at least she squirmed a little in this episode and I loved when Gretchen told her how it was.

In Paceys case, of course, his insecurity popped up again and at this point it's a little grating even for a fan of his. I loved all of the Joey/Pacey interaction especially the teaser and the pizza scene, they definitely looked like a long term relationship couple even though they were slowly going downhill at this point.

Drue was funny, ever the instigator, fortunately it turned out he didnt know much about what he was talking about anyway. Missed that guy in later seasons.

The Jen/Jack storyline was sucha yawn, did anyone care about Jen and her therapist? It was such a creepy storyline.

I'd have to say my favorite character in this episode was Gretchen though. Overall I thought the episode was pretty entertaining.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugz
)
Joey was uncomfortable with the Gretchen/Dawson situation not because she was staying at Dawsons but because Gretchen knew that Pacey and Joey had had sex and Joey was worrying about her lie becoming apparent to Dawson. Even though Joeys lie really didnt end up having much consequence at least she squirmed a little in this episode and I loved when Gretchen told her how it was.
I 'm not so sure about Joey being worried about Gretchen because she feared that she would've told him the truth.
In fact, if you remember Joey asked her to keep her mouth shut as soon as she arrived at Pacey's. Joey didn't even known that Gretchen would've spent the night at Dawsons.
As soon as Gretchen says to Pacey that she was going to Dawson and probably sleeping there Joey's face changes.
And about the Pacey and Joey pizza night I don't see it like that at all. It seemed pretty uncomfortable to me as the most of the PJ scenes after Winter's Tale.
You can just see that Joey is confused,Pacey ensecure and they can't really talk to each other or solve their issues.

I agree that Gretchen was the best character with Drue in this episode anyhow.
I truly enjoyed them.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:57 AM
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I agree Sugz, Gretchen was my favorite character too.
I gotta admit I felt for Pacey in this episode, seriously, because he was also clueless in this whole story and disappointed when Gretchen told about Joey's lie to Dawson.
I thought he would tell something to Joey, but instead he preferred to avoid the subject, which wasn't a very smart decision, IMHO. And when he decided to speak, he went too far, but that's an issue to Promicide discussion...
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lor-baby
I 'm not so sure about Joey being worried about Gretchen because she feared that she would've told him the truth.
In fact, if you remember Joey asked her to keep her mouth shut as soon as she arrived at Pacey's. Joey didn't even known that Gretchen would've spent the night at Dawsons.
As soon as Gretchen says to Pacey that she was going to Dawson and probably sleeping there Joey's face changes.

Im not so sure about that. Joey found out that Gretchen knew from Pacey while they were on the couch and then directly after Pacey tells her that Gretchen's most likely going to crash elsewhere that night, then Joey finds out it's going to be at Dawsons and thats when she gets worried. Gretchen would be spending the night with Dawson, an ample opportunity for sex to come up. If you remember, Joey told Gretchen to keep it quiet because she hadnt told Dawson yet Dawson then Gretchen finds out that thats not the case, Joey didnt just not mention it to Dawson she actually lied about it. So I think Joey had a LOT to be worried about on that front and with good cause because the truth did come out to Gretchen.
But to each his own, I know people like to read into facial expressions a lot. But I think the lie was the main issue there.


Quote:
And about the Pacey and Joey pizza night I don't see it like that at all. It seemed pretty uncomfortable to me as the most of the PJ scenes after Winter's Tale.
You can just see that Joey is confused,Pacey ensecure and they can't really talk to each other or solve their issues.

I just dont see it that way. Yea, pacey was insecure, as usual. But it was Joey who said that Gretchen and Dawson DIDNT bother her and when Pacey asked her if she was sure she said:

"Of course Im sure. It's entirely none of our business Pace. And besides, it ruins the mood. And I, for one, am not going to let that happen after we've waited so long for this night."

And then she proceeds to smooch him. That's a LOOONG way from A Winters Tale to me. So no, really saw no awkwardness there, just insecurity on the part of Pacey. But like I said before, I know people like to read into things and take that as more factual that whats actually said.
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:19 AM
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great post sugz. so happy to hear from you
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:20 AM
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Joey was uncomfortable with the D/G thing, that was very clear when Gretchen asked her: Do you want me to? or something like that when Joey said that she knew Gretchen spent part of the night with Dawson´s.

Joey was such a bitch, I hate P/J with passion but I felt sorry for Pacey because after all that time he thought Joey was finally sincere with him. YEAH RIGHT.

Dawson is so cute this season; trying to do the right thing with the year book. I could care less about that stupidity.
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugz
Im not so sure about that. Joey found out that Gretchen knew from Pacey while they were on the couch and then directly after Pacey tells her that Gretchen's most likely going to crash elsewhere that night, then Joey finds out it's going to be at Dawsons and thats when she gets worried. Gretchen would be spending the night with Dawson, an ample opportunity for sex to come up. If you remember, Joey told Gretchen to keep it quiet because she hadnt told Dawson yet Dawson then Gretchen finds out that thats not the case, Joey didnt just not mention it to Dawson she actually lied about it. So I think Joey had a LOT to be worried about on that front and with good cause because the truth did come out to Gretchen.
But to each his own, I know people like to read into facial expressions a lot. But I think the lie was the main issue there.
I think that Joey was worried about Gretchen telling Dawson the truth when she was on the couch with Pacey. But when Gretchen comes home the two of them talk and Gretchen told her that she was ok with what Joey was asking. Joey is relieved but when Pacey's is on the phone and asks here where is she going and she says Dawson..well Joey's face is not really fine. The opposite. Then Pacey looks at her and she makes a sort of uncomfortable smile.
And about Joey telling Pacey she's ok with Gretchen and Dawson WELL she said it also in the Rave's episode and after 5 minutes was by Gretchen side asking her if she was going to get together with Dawson. She told Pacey she was fine with them in Self reliances and she didn't really seem fine with them at last.
You have faith in Joey's words. I don't.
I don't really see anything from the jealousy to the lies as casual coincidences in season 4. There was definetly a build up for something.
That's my opinion though.
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