Sheebs

Thanks for the info!

Sugz

This episode was pretty ridiculous in an innumerable amount of ways. It was obvious that since it was the episode where Joey loses her virginity to Pacey, not Dawson, that the majority of the episode was a big consoling pat on the back of DJers, they may as well have had "Dont worry, it's not over for DJ" flash up on the screen every few minutes, it wouldve bee more subtle than what they gave us.

The Mr. Brooks storyline was sad but wouldve been a lot more emotional had the story not been shrouded in such ridiculousness. Maybe had Mr. Brooks long lost friend not come in and dropped the most ridiculous DJ anvil there ever was in saying that even though he spent his life with a woman Mr. Brooks would always be "the one" for her because they were each otehrs first loves. Hy-ster-i-cal. I still dont see how a professional writer could write something like that. That and the fact that Dawson was given the right to decide whether Mr. Brooks would die or not. And also the part about how Dawson never actually mentioned Mr. Brooks more than in passing after the man died. I can see how, in a very simple way, Mr Brooks dying was sad for some people, but the details surrounding the entire storyline were so heinous it almost makes it laughable in hindsight. But Dawson did have to do *something* important while Pacey and Joey were getting ready to get it on.

Then there was Pacey and Joey and their fighting. They were both insecure and scared about things, we get it. But even with the Dawson bickering and the phone call where Dawson inadvertantly tells Joey to go have sex with Pacey, the last scene of the episode absolutely overshadowed it all. It really was insecurity because the last scene was very sincere in my opinion. Ive always felt like it is the little things that count in a relationship, not the things he buys you or anything of that sort, but the little details of a relationship that really show when someone cares about you and Joey did a nice job in noticing and relaying that ppreciation back to Pacey in her pre-love making speech to him because those really are the things that make you fall in love with someone and ultimately express taht love physically. I found it very mature of Joey and never understood how people didnt understand that type of thing and even made fun of Joey for the things she said to Pacey in that scene. Plus she strips him of his clothes. Hot.

And other than that scene my favorite scene was Joey and Jack, I love their scenes, the last one I remember between them that reminded me of the one they had in this episode was in the Anti-Prom episode, both times he told Joey, in essence, not to be scared. Go Jack.


So really, I thought this episode was a joke, but the last scene made up for it through and through.

Sheebs

^^ Great post. You speak the truth!!!

eatyourgreens

I was not impressed by this episode either. Thought Dawson/Brooks storyline was sort of boring, we all knew he was gonna die, and I thought the D/J/P references with it were all so contrived. Drue never disappointed though and I was also pleased with the Jack/Jen scenes. But the P/J storyline was the same as always: fight about something, bring up Dawson, and make up in the last scene. Except this time they had sex. Whoopee! If they hadn't actually showed us in the commercial (It seems that DC always liked to give away who was gonna have sex in each episode in the commercials (P/J, D/J, E/J) or at least whoever Joey slept with), we might have been a tiny bit surprised. Wait, no we wouldn't, because it was predictable. It was also predictable how things would go downhill for them after this episode, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. I also thought the last scene was unrealistic. Do I think Pacey and Joey loved each other? Yes. Do I think that Joey appreciated what Pacey brought to her life (no matter how ridiculous- Napkins?)? Sure. Do I think it is realistic that high school seniors have sex on their class trip? Of course. Do I think that Joey, who was a virgin at the time, would be so assertive? No. I just didn't believe that she had become fearless about it after what had transpired in the episode. Sure Jack and Dawson had helped her make the decision, but would she be that fearless when it was getting closer to the act? I don't think so, and I think that Pacey reassuring an uncomfortable Joey would have been more realistic and less eyeroll-worthy than Joey's speech about napkins and bags.

Deb D

^ Amen!

x0xKayx0x

I actually liked this episode. Besides the whole Dawson/Mr. Brooks story line. I loved all the Pacey & Joey moments. It showed how much Pacey loved her b/c he was still willing to wait. Joey was scared as everyone is before his or her first time. I loved her speech. Carrying bags & buying walls to be so thoughtful as to get extra napkins, teaching her to drive. These are reasons people fall in love. It’s those simple things that matter & obviously to Joey the simple acts Pacey did were enough for her. Joey losing her virginity to Pacey was excellent. All their scenes are very well written IMO.

Sugz

I dont think it's unrealistic that a girl who is obviously in love and with a guy for nine months alone in a snow surrounded fire lit cabin would finally let go and realize that she was ready to commit the physical act of love. The whole point of the episode was that she was scared of something and whether that something was Dawson, sex itself or the future none of it was enough to override the feeling that she really wanted to do it and with her previous actions in the episode (the condom incident) I dont think that it is odd that she felt the need to be aggressive (bad word to use I think, more like romantic) with pacey to convince him that she was indeed ready.

Personally I dont feel that any DJer wouldever feel like Joey was ready to have sex with Pacey nor have I ever seen one admit it was realistic but it certainly was, class trip or not, it wasnt the setting it was the person for Joey. I dont see a single thing that was unrealistic about that scene whatsoever, in fact I think it's unrealistic for two people in lvoe to NOT capitalize on that situation sexually.

And like I said before, how anyone can call Joeys speech to Pacey eye roll worthy is beyond me, her message was loud and clear, it was the little things that Pacey did for her that made her love him so much, to make fun of or downplay that message is pure unadulterated jealousy. However had Dawson been in Paceys shoes Dawson fans wouldve eaten it up and Pacey fans probably wouldve made fun of it so to each their own. But I still have never heard a valid reason as to why that speech was in any way anything BUT romantic unless you just look at it on the surface and all you can say it "napkins". Very deep.

COOLCAT200

I just wanted to say it is a decent point that Dawson never really mentioned Mr Brooks again but it was also weird how he never ever made a mention of Gretchen after season 4.

Deb D

It's not the napkins that worries me Kim, so much as the mini-golf where Pacey went first and took all the shots for her. Feisty Joey with a spine would have tried to kick his butt at golf. All the things she listed just made her seem a tad helpless and in need of 'hero-Pacey' (who was shoved down our throats time and time again).
Anyway, as you say if it was a DJ speech, PJers would be having a ball, so I'm going to enjoy the snark. It really was a great speech for me too, albeit for completely different reasons.
And I do think it was realistic for PJ to have sex. I just think it would have been far more realistic had they done it on the boat. You can't beat those first months of heady passion, teenage hormones, enclosed space and no family around as reasons for sex. Like Pacey, I found the nine months and counting a long haul, unless thoughts of Dawson were involved and well then there's a whole new story.

Coolcat, yeah quite a few characters were expendable once they had their turn on the stage which was the "triangle". My concern is who got Brook's 3-legged dog? Or is he still wandering around, lifting his remaining legs on Dawson's paint work?

TrueLovePJer

A Winter's Tale...

GREAT EPISODE! And the reason I say great is for the obvious reason...Pacey and Joey have sex! The speech Joey gives to Pacey is so sweet and endearing. I just love it. And the kissing after "Ten my love"...VERY HOT!

Deb I'm going to have to disagree with you about having it on the boat. I like the fact that they waited and truly fell in love with each other because in Season 3, I don't think Joey was mature enough. Season 4 you can definitely tell how much she's grown. And as for the speech making her seem a "tad helpless"...how can someone buying you a wall and remembering the bracelet you are wearing make you helpless? I think everything she said (napkins, mini golf, wall, bracelet, kissing her first) shows that like Pacey she remembers everything too.

Sugz awesome post as per usual!!!

If Pacey "reassured" Joey into being like "Sex is great" or whatever reassuring her would be, you KNOW every DJer on the planet would have then said that Pacey pressured her into having sex with him! So I don't think that would have worked!

Deb D

We'll have to agree to disagree Colleen I ddin't see a more mature Joey in season 4. It was obviously best that she waited until she was ready for sex but I was arguing in terms of realism of sex for a 17yr old who's just run off for a three-month cruise with her boyfriend.
You're right that nothing about PJ having sex was ever going to please a DJer.

Cris

We can all agree on this!
And then, in 601 discussion, the roles will be reversed and we still will be on opposite sides!
That's how we work, I guess...

Hey Colleen, long time no see!

Deb D

I wonder if you're born with a gene that makes you a DJer or a PJer

sweetee

That's an interesting thought, Deb

TrueLovePJer

Very true Deb! But where would these threads be without us

Heyyyyy Cris!!! I know, it's been awhile! I've been super busy with work and such, but I wanted to pop in for the "A Winter's Tale" episode discussion.