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Old 05-29-2005, 11:53 PM
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Episode Discussion # 410 - "Self-Reliance"






When Bessie and Bodie take a weekend away, Joey's hoping to get some studying done...but fate seems to be against her. Between her responsibilities at the B&B and Pacey's affections, Joey's hard pressed to find a moment alone... and as if that wasn't enough, she's trying to cope with her feelings about having seen Dawson kiss Gretchen. Pacey's got his own issues with that "kiss"... and he's convinced Dawson and Joey need closure, once and for all. Meanwhile, Dawson's collaboration with Brooks begins, rejuvenating Dawson's filmmaking spirit, and Jen takes Jack to a "Gay-Straight Coalition" meeting in the hopes that he'll meet some gay friends... but Jen seems to fit in with the crowd more than Jack does.
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Old 05-30-2005, 09:39 AM
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This episode contains one of the best scenes of the series. I was very saddened to hear MR Brooks was sick because I was enjoying very much his scenes with Dawson. I can't help it but I liked the fact the Dawson/Grecthan kiss bothered Joey to an extent even Pacey picked up on and I will give Pacey credit because telling her to talk to Dawson was a smart thing to do.......Now on to the scene

The Dawson/Joey scene in Dawson's room is just so great and not only did it show Dawson's growth as a person but it shows deeply what D/J are and the connection they will always have. It was just beautiful of Dawson to give Joey a picture of her and Pacey and Joey telling Dawson Gretchen would be very lucky to have him. Very great emotion in this scene. I liked that Jen was trying to help Jack meet people.
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Old 05-30-2005, 02:15 PM
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I loved this eppy too but what i didn't like is how joey had to put down dawson to make pacey feel better like saying he beat dawson blah,blah,blah it kinda bothered me.
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Old 06-01-2005, 07:31 AM
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The Dawson and Joey scene was really touching.
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Old 06-01-2005, 07:40 AM
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ITA agree Coolcat. That scene was very emotional and sweet, showing Dawson and Joey really care about each other, no matter which status their relationship was.

Amy, agree with you. Joey was a real bitch to Pacey. He didn't deserve that, because this time the problem was with Joey. He was very mature in this episode, it was not easy to send her to figure out some things (even though, I don't think she really dealt with anything. Dawson's gift broke her...).

But one more time, she had to say something negative about Dawson to cheer Pacey up. I'm sooo against this...
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:25 AM
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I have good memories of this episode as well. I remember liking the Dawson and Joey scene and seeing it as some form of closure, I felt like with everyone saying that Joey was so jealous of Dawson and Gretchen over and over again and that it affected her but time and time again it moved her to do nothing and she stayed with Pacey so I feel like that proved she really was with the guy that she wanted and this episode was especially proof of that. Dawson giving Joey the photo of she and Pacey was adorable, I loved that photo but once again the way Dawson and Gretchen played out left a bad taste in my mouth so I dont really have a comment on that. I thought it couldve been so much more than what it turned out to be, which was Dawsons girl while Joey was offin love with someone else. Ridiculous. I loved how patient Pacey was with Joey, once again he let her go figure out her issues with Dawson while his own insecurities festered, in the end this hurt him but I think it spared Joey. I lvoed the last scene where they're like a "family" with Alex, studying by the fireplace.

The Mr. Brooks stuff didnt really interest me, in fact Mr. Brooks' storyline also left a bad taste in mymouth as did most of Dawsons staories in season 4 because they seemed to facilitate nothing, in Mr. Brooks' case, he was supposed to be so important to Dawson yet we heard nothing of him after Dawson had his money and gave it to Joey. Bad taste.

Yea, thats all I recall about this episode.
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:05 AM
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Also after season 4 there was never ever a single mention of Gretchen.
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:11 AM
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They seemed to forget all guest characters! Well, not just them, they didn't make a single mention of Andie in the last episode...
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:23 AM
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Sadly on the aired version no mention. At least they put her back on the DVD.
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:48 PM
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Joey didn't put down Dawson to make Pacey feel better. She says the same thing to Dawson in season 5 about how they keep each other from growing up, just like in this episode. Joey is saying it because it's the way she feels
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:11 PM
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I don't know about that........

Joey:You know what? You haven’t. You never do. You are the perfect boyfriend, and you win the perfect boyfriend contest. You beat Dawson. Is that what you want to hear, Pacey?
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:07 AM
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Good point, Coolcat.
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hshapir2
how they keep each other from growing up, just like in this episode. Joey is saying it because it's the way she feels

I totally agree with that statement Sarah i believe that is how Joey feels
"whenever I'm around him, I become 15." and i think in the Dawson and Joey scene in this episode they finally step away from that Dawson giving Joey the picture is major character growth and Joey asking about Gretchen and Dawson's relationship shows that both characters respect the relationships each other are involved in and that they can both finally stop being 15 trapped in the same argument -
Joey: You see, Dawson and I, we didn't grow up. We are in that house, in Dawson's bedroom, eternally
having the same argument over and over again, in this endless cycle that
goes on and on. And… I can't stop it

Did any of that make sense
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Old 06-02-2005, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COOLCAT200
I don't know about that........

Joey:You know what? You haven’t. You never do. You are the perfect boyfriend, and you win the perfect boyfriend contest. You beat Dawson. Is that what you want to hear, Pacey?

Joey was actually *really* out of line in saying that though because that's NOT what Pacey was after. All he was trying to do was understand Joey and why she was so frustrated, it was Joey who got defensive and quippy, not to mention she said that in a very, VERY sarcastic manner. SO Im not sure that it can be rightfully construed as Joey having to put down Dawson to make Pacey feel better, this wasnt that situation.
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:04 AM
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True Pacey was not after that but for whatever reason Joey felt the need to say it.
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