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Old 03-20-2005, 07:46 PM
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Episode Discussion # 323 - "True Love"






In an emotionally charged season finale, the many star-crossed lovers of Capeside go to dramatic lengths to mend their romantic rifts. Gail and Mitch finally take their second walk down the aisle, attended by Dawson and a mentally exhausted Joey. Dawson, inspired by his parents re-marriage, reconsiders Joey's and his relationship. Meanwhile, Pacey, who is preparing to sail to Key West for the summer, makes a final desperate attempt to convince Joey of his love.

Spurred to action by Grams' story of a past love that never even began, Jen resolves to repair the damage done to her relationship with Henry, while Jack wrestles with his conflicting feelings about Ethan.
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:33 PM
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Well, we have finally come to the end of season 3 and it ends with an epic episode. Now if you are a big D/Jer like I am this episode was just heart breaking.

First off I did like how they showed the whole season before the teaser it was a nice touch. I can't really say I blame Pacey for wanting to leave that summer but I was shocked he may have left without even telling Joey. So many emotions were going on with D,J,P. When Joey went to see Pacey he brought up a good point that the choice has always be hers. I liked the Andie/Dawson scene because we really did not have a whole lot of them and I like she tried to give him good advice about letting go. I guess Grams speech really made Pacey think and that's why I think he set the situation up for Joey to see the wall but I feel it also put more pressure on her. Joey on the dock was pretty much telling Dawson if not for his ultimatum she would be with Pacey. I did like at the wedding how it kind of mirrored D/J like it may be them someday. One scene that always makes me sad is the Dawson/Pacey scene as I feel it is a very important scene of the series because when Pacey asks if things would ever be the same between them and Dawson just flat out say's no it was something that was true and something that sadly if you were a fan of the friendship they once had that ended up holding up till the end of the series. Dawson/Joey's dance was even more heart breaking like when Dawson said he use to be able to look in her eyes and know what she was thinking and seeing Joey just so unhappy. It was in this moment I feel Dawson finally let go. In that moment I think he saw in Joey's eyes the mistake he was making and knew he could no longer kid himself. I thought Dawson's best man speech was very nice. now on to the dock scene non death wise this is the most heart breaking scene I ever had to watch during the show's history. Dawson finally admitted he was making a big mistake and he was right Joey wanted Pacey and he had to let her go. The emotion in this scene is really something else because when I watched this when it aired I really started to tear up although I was also glad Dawson did the right thing and I felt at the time all roads would lead back to him. My heart broke for Dawson when he was on the dock crying and Joey was also very upset because she was sad she had to hurt him I think. I guess Jen knew what it all meant when she saw Joey running and Dawson on the dock. As for the rest Jen/Henry thank God this was the last we saw of Henry. I felt bad for Jack as he learned Ethan was back together with his BF. Now one of the most perfect songs ever on the creek is ''I Will Be There For You'' it fit well with all the situations like Jack and his father was a great scene. I was so glad to see Dawson's friends there for him because he really needed them to help him get through the pain. After the end scene this stuff really left a bad taste in my mouth and that summer I was very sad at all that happened and had no clue what would be in season 4
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Old 03-20-2005, 10:47 PM
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Great post, Eric. Here's what I wrote about the episode when it aired:

As a Dawson and Joey fan, I found this episode to be, as expected, disappointing, and after the way that Dawson’s character had been effectively destroyed in the episodes leading up to this episode, I wasn’t surprised at all that Joey chose Pacey in the end, and I was spoiler free that season. Still, though, there were certain moments and story lines in this episode that I found to be endearing, and as I felt about most of the episodes that I watched in Season Three, the only truly enjoyable and emotionally satisfying parts of the episode were any scenes that Jack and Jen were in.

My heart really broke for Dawson in this episode, as Joey Potter once again broke his heart and caused him nothing but pain and anguish. I thought he showed true maturity by recognizing that he had “lost” Joey at least for now, and encouraging her to pursue a relationship with Pacey, even though he was breaking his own heart by doing so. What Dawson did was nothing short of noble, and as it turned out, I think that Dawson was wise to take this course of action, because Joey’s heart wasn’t with him, and she would have simply made him miserable as she pined away for Pacey and she would have simply been going through the motions of pursuing a relationship with him. At that point, I felt Dawson was truly better off without her, safe in the embrace of his parents and friends, than to be in a loveless and lackluster relationship with someone who didn’t love him the way he loved her. I’d also like to say that I never felt like Dawson was acting like he “owned” Joey when he encouraged her to follow her heart and go to Pacey, and I’d also like to say that he never told her that she was “free to go,” he said: “You want him like I want you. You love him like I love you. The only difference is, he loves you back the same way. And you deserve that, okay? And I’m not going to be the one who stands in the way of you getting there. You’re free. You can do whatever you want.” Do you have any idea how much it broke Dawson’s heart to say those words to Joey? The girl he loved with all his heart didn’t love him any more, so he had the maturity and consideration for Joey’s feelings to encourage her to follow her heart and go to Pacey, yet so many people said that he was acting like he “owned” her in that scene. That’s one thing I can never, and will never, understand.

I gave up on Joey Potter long ago, and this episode only reinforced my disdain for her character, as she proved once again that she only thought only of herself, as she sat at Mitch and Gale’s wedding looking like someone had murdered her entire family, and it galled me that she couldn’t have the decency or maturity to not think of herself for an hour, and be happy for Mitch and Gale, instead of wallowing in self pity like she did in that episode. I thought that she treated both Pacey and Dawson horribly in this episode, acting like Dawson had put a gun to her head to force her to stay with him, and making him feel like she was “stuck with him,” and berating Pacey for “running away,” and “giving up,” when she had never once asked Pacey to stay or gave him any real indication where her feelings for him lay. Joey Potter, without a doubt, has become one of the most self absorbed characters ever presented on a television show, and her narcissistic tendencies were at their zenith in that episode.

I also thought that the idea that Joey would leave Bessie to fend for herself in the busiest time of year for their fledgling “Potter’s Bed and Breakfast,” which was supposed to be her mother’s dream, and the only way that Bessie and her could support themselves, was, to me, unconscionable, but I know that it warmed the hearts of those people who saw Pacey and Joey’s relationship as representing “true love.” To me, the only person who showed “true love” in this episode was Dawson, and I think it’s a shame that his love was wasted on someone who broke his heart again and again. To me, the final scene of Pacey and Joey sailing off together represented a cheesy ending to a very disappointing season of Dawson’s Creek, and I hoped that Dawson would learn to let go of his feelings for Joey, because it really saddens and disheartens me to see him in such anguish over someone who truly doesn’t deserve his love and devotion. I thought that Dawson was right when he said that Joey’s pleas that they still be friends, and that he wouldn’t hate her, were only words, empty words that meant nothing. Words can not describe how much I hated Joey’s character after that episode, not so much because she chose Pacey, but because of the spineless and totally self absorbed way that she acted throughout this entire episode.

I thought it was sad, but very true, that Pacey and Dawson acknowledged that things would never be the same between them again. I was saddened at the time that Dawson hadn’t found it in his heart yet to forgive Pacey as he so easily forgave Joey, and as we saw in Season Four, that pattern continued, much to my dismay. I thought that Dawson was unnecessarily harsh to Pacey at his parents’ wedding, because I felt that Pacey had every right to be there, as Mitch and Gale had always welcomed him into their home as much as they did Joey, and I thought that it was unfair and childish of Dawson to expect that Pacey should be excluded from sharing his parents’ joyous occasion. I think, in time, Dawson will forgive Pacey, but like Pacey said to Andie once, he’ll never forget what Pacey did, and things will never the same between these two former best friends. When all is said and done, and I look back at this last season, I think that’s the real tragedy of the love triangle that the “wonderful” writers created on Dawson’s Creek.

Many people have liked to talk about Dawson’s immaturity in recent months, and they especially delighted in castigating him for forcing Joey to make a choice, and by laying a guilt trip on her, but Pacey’s stunt of threatening to “sail off into the sunset,” and painting the wall that he had rented for her with a message “ask me to stay”, was just as manipulative as anything that Dawson did after he learned that Pacey and Joey were involved with one another, but because it was Pacey that did that, and not Dawson, it'll just be glossed over, but if Dawson did that, he'd be crucified for it.

I really enjoyed Jack and Jen’s story in this episode, although I was hoping that Henry would be gone for good, and thankfully, in Season Four, he was. I would much rather see Jen with a viable boyfriend instead of this mumbling poor excuse of an actor, but at least Jen had some type of story line in this episode, and Michelle Williams simply lights up the screen in any scene that she’s in. I thought it was wonderful to see how Grams encouraged both Jack and Jen to salvage their relationships with the people they cared the most about, using that wonderful story from her own past to give them inspiration, and then taking an active role to see it through. Grams has become a truly wonderful character, moving light years beyond the stern, one dimensional religious zealot that she was in Season One and much of Season Two, and she’s become a truly supportive grandmother to Jen, and a true friend, and surrogate grandmother, to Jack. My heart broke for Jack though, as his decision to move forward in his relationship with Ethan ultimately caused him to experience the pain of betrayal and heartbreak, but I found his scene with his father to be exceptionally moving. Once again, this scene proved to be one of the best scenes in the episode, as almost any scene involving Jack in any episode that season proved to be.

I thought it was a bit much that Mitch and Gale got remarried in such a hurry, and it seemed only to serve the purpose of being used as a metaphor for the relationship of Dawson and Joey, particularly when Dawson spoke about love meaning that you can forgive anything, and that true love does not conquer all, but that love ends and begins again. Still, though, for Dawson’s sake, I was glad to see Mitch and Gale reunite, because Dawson definitely needed, and got, their full and united support, as well as the support of his true friends, as, led by the ever warm hearted Jen, they came through for him, in the heartbreaking months that followed the departure of Pacey and Joey.
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:46 PM
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Interesting post, JerryD. It's nice to see other reactions to episodes.

Being the P/J shipper that I am, I obviously love this episode. Or at least the ending. All the other storylines going on around the triangle seemed a little boring to me. Well except for Grams, because let's face it, Grams frickin' rocks! Gale and Mitch? Blah. I stopped caring about them somewhere during the 2nd Season.

I truly felt for Pacey. Starting the year off with a girlfriend he was in love with and who he thought loved him back, with two best friends he had since he was young, then finding out his girlfriend cheated on him w/ a mental patient, and becoming closer to one friend and shifting away from the other, one failed sex-pact, dance classes, and feelings of the more than friendly variety for his so-called best friends "soulmate", figuring she'll never feel the same, a roadside kiss, fighting and denial, followed by trying to tell his best friend he thinks he's in love with his ex-girlfriend and failing to tell him, 2 kisses by the firelight, with a gropefest the next week, then a horrible fight where she runs after her "soulmate" and leaves him in the cold, and everyone tells him, he just screwed everything up, not talking to best friends for a while, then when he does talk it's not ever what he really wants to talk about it, being told he only likes girls he can save or screw, going to Prom with the ex-girlfriend who cheated on him, being asked to dance with the girl he wanted to go to the Prom with, while exes are staring at them like they just ran over someones dog....whew! I think I'd runaway too.

Pacey always had a way of making Joey do what she really wanted. He didn't come out and tell her she had to choose, he just let out one more big romantic gesture "Ask Me to Stay" told her how he felt, and that he'd spent a couple hours just staring at the wall and thinking, then told her she should do the same. Basically, I know what I want, but that doesn't really matter you need to make a decision. I don't really care what it is, as as long as you're happy, but please, I've given you a lot of time, and you're going to get a whole lot more, if you need it.

Dawson didn't bother me so much this episode. The only thing that did bother me was the speech at the end of the dock. I just really wish Joey could've made a choice on her own. But no, Dawson kinda let her "off the hook" and let her free, which I didn't particularly like, but whatever, I got the happy ending I have nothing to complain about.

And let's not forget when he breaks down on the dock, could be taken two ways...sad and endearing, or you know, not so sad, actually a little on the funny side. Ok that was really mean, and I'm sorry
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Old 03-21-2005, 02:00 PM
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Pacey always had a way of making Joey do what she really wanted. He didn't come out and tell her she had to choose, he just let out one more big romantic gesture "Ask Me to Stay" told her how he felt, and that he'd spent a couple hours just staring at the wall and thinking, then told her she should do the same. Basically, I know what I want, but that doesn't really matter you need to make a decision. I don't really care what it is, as as long as you're happy, but please, I've given you a lot of time, and you're going to get a whole lot more, if you need it.
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Quote:
And let's not forget when he breaks down on the dock, could be taken two ways...sad and endearing, or you know, not so sad, actually a little on the funny side. Ok that was really mean, and I'm sorry
That part has always made me laugh and I feel bad because James was really trying in that scene.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:02 PM
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That episode is one of the hardest for me to watch because i am such a huge D/J fan. But i think it was okay that he let her go. i would have perferred that he didnt but.. I think it was probably one of the hardest moment of his life and i felt for him. I think the best man speech was great when he said " love ends and begins again" and on the dock when he told her all roads would lead back to him and he was right it only took like 3 episodes for them to find there way back to each other after the P/J break up
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:41 PM
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Except that the never really got back together... if anything "love ends and begins again" pertained to Pacey and Joey in this series.

Adore this episode, always have, always will. I still feel a tinge of annoyance when people feel bad for Dawson or say he was heroic in letting Joey go, thats like someone being tagged a hero for letting someone go from being held captive against their will. That said, it was as much Joeys fault as it was Dawson the situation she was in, Im glad her spine emerged in this episode and she realized that no, Dawsons feelings are not all that matter. I also loved that Dawson didnt end up alone but with Andie, Jen and Jack for the summer. Speaking of, I loved the Andie, Jen, Jack and Grams storyline. I kno wit was a bore to some but this episode was intensely romantic and that storyline had a lot to do with it. I dont like Henry, looking back, but when this episode aired I loved hoe Jen chased chased him down. I didnt mind the parallels, with Mitch and Gale and the wedding and all, if anything it made me feel as if Pacey and Joey had won this battle but the intention was still to have Dawson and Joey win the war, it wasnt lost on me that the wedding was meant to parallel Dawson and Joeys supposed future. I thought the end scene was amazing, of course and I was glad Pacey finally got to be happy becuase the only HAPPY ending to this season 3 mess was Pacey and Joey exploring their feelings, if theyr wouldnt have done that the natural course of human emotion never wouldve let them get over it until they did.

ALl in all this ep made for some great debating in the weeks before it aired.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugz
Except that the never really got back together... if anything "love ends and begins again" pertained to Pacey and Joey in this series.
So very true, Sugz.

Well, what I can say about this episode it that, in my opinion, this was the best season finale out of the series. It showed the ups and downs that all the characters were facing and what they went through the entire season.

Seeing Pacey and Joey sailing off into the sunset might be a bit cliche, but with Joey finally coming to terms and going with her heart just makes the cliche so much better. I don't feel that Pacey writing "Ask Me To Stay" on Joey's wall was some form of manipulation. It was one of his many grand romantic gestures to show Joey that he wasn't prepared to give up on her (as he told her at the wall). He knew that she needed to make a decision with herself before anything else. He just wanted to show her (even though she already knew it) that his decision was her, as a friend or more, no matter what.

I did feel for Dawson when he told Joey to go after Pacey. But I'll say this time and time again. Joey and Dawson were not together when she and Pacey began their relationship. Yes, it was a hurtful situation for Dawson to process, but he should not have held his friendship over Joey's head for her to make a monumentally huge decision in her life. After "The Longest Day", whenever Joey spoke with Dawson, she spoke of their friendship and nothing more. She didn't mention any type of romantic implications that she had for him.

Grams does rock! She is just one amazing character. To drive Jen and Jack to face their demons, i.e. their fear of some form of a true relationship, was just so Grams. I love how her character softened throughout the entire series. I can say one thing though...so glad to see the Jen/Henry storyline come to its final resting spot. I really liked the character of Henry in the beginning, I thought his actions were cute. But as the series progressed, his character became the nails on the chalkboard kind of annoyance.

All in all, one of my favorite episodes. So wish I was watching DC when this episode initially aired, but ya gotta love reruns and DVDs.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:38 PM
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[QUOTE=FinallyPJ]So very true, Sugz.

She didn't mention any type of romantic implications that she had for him.
QUOTE]


She did mention that when he kissed her in Anti Prom she did feel something. That had to of given Dawson some hope I think. Grams does rock I have to agree.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:41 PM
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coolcat, she may have felt something for him. He still knew she was in love with Pacey and was "stuck" with him.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:46 PM
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True I do think he knew she wanted to be with Pacey even on the dock he told her ''even I can see it''.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:57 PM
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"True Love" is my favorite episode of the entire series! I thought it was so well done and aside from the Series Finale, it wasn't a cliff hanger or someone seriously getting dumped (i.e. Parental Discretion Advised) like every other season. We, the audience, actually got closure from the beginning of the season to the end. I remember when I watched it, I was at peace for the entire summer and so happy because Pacey and Joey were off sailing around the world together and there was no Dawson to ruin it! At the time, it was a HUGE deal for Joey to choose Pacey because before it was always Dawson. So for them to break tradition was AWESOME!

I think this episode also epitomizes what "Dawson's Creek" is all about. The romance..."Ask Me To Stay"..."I think I'm in love with you"...You think or you know?"...."I know" and of course the friendships...the whole Grams roadtrip and Jen, Jack, and Andie being there for Dawson at the end. It just overall was an amazing episode! And I don't think I have ever seen Joey and Pacey so happy than in that moment when they kiss! I seriously can never get tired of this episode because the ending with Pacey and Joey sailing off into the sunset gets me every time! I don't care if it's cheesy, I LOVE IT!
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Old 03-21-2005, 11:31 PM
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I don't care if it's cheesy, I LOVE IT!
Sometimes cheese is good!
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:11 AM
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Well, we have finally come to the end of season 3 and it ends with an epic episode. Now if you are a big D/Jer like I am this episode was just heart breaking.

First off I did like how they showed the whole season before the teaser it was a nice touch. I can't really say I blame Pacey for wanting to leave that summer but I was shocked he may have left without even telling Joey. So many emotions were going on with D,J,P. When Joey went to see Pacey he brought up a good point that the choice has always be hers. I liked the Andie/Dawson scene because we really did not have a whole lot of them and I like she tried to give him good advice about letting go. I guess Grams speech really made Pacey think and that's why I think he set the situation up for Joey to see the wall but I feel it also put more pressure on her. Joey on the dock was pretty much telling Dawson if not for his ultimatum she would be with Pacey. I did like at the wedding how it kind of mirrored D/J like it may be them someday. One scene that always makes me sad is the Dawson/Pacey scene as I feel it is a very important scene of the series because when Pacey asks if things would ever be the same between them and Dawson just flat out say's no it was something that was true and something that sadly if you were a fan of the friendship they once had that ended up holding up till the end of the series. Dawson/Joey's dance was even more heart breaking like when Dawson said he use to be able to look in her eyes and know what she was thinking and seeing Joey just so unhappy. It was in this moment I feel Dawson finally let go. In that moment I think he saw in Joey's eyes the mistake he was making and knew he could no longer kid himself. I thought Dawson's best man speech was very nice. now on to the dock scene non death wise this is the most heart breaking scene I ever had to watch during the show's history. Dawson finally admitted he was making a big mistake and he was right Joey wanted Pacey and he had to let her go. The emotion in this scene is really something else because when I watched this when it aired I really started to tear up although I was also glad Dawson did the right thing and I felt at the time all roads would lead back to him. My heart broke for Dawson when he was on the dock crying and Joey was also very upset because she was sad she had to hurt him I think. I guess Jen knew what it all meant when she saw Joey running and Dawson on the dock. As for the rest Jen/Henry thank God this was the last we saw of Henry. I felt bad for Jack as he learned Ethan was back together with his BF. Now one of the most perfect songs ever on the creek is ''I Will Be There For You'' it fit well with all the situations like Jack and his father was a great scene. I was so glad to see Dawson's friends there for him because he really needed them to help him get through the pain. After the end scene this stuff really left a bad taste in my mouth and that summer I was very sad at all that happened and had no clue what would be in season 4
I truly agree with everything you said
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:44 AM
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Thanks Pacephine! And in this case, it was VERY good!
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