COOLCAT200

I have to agree with Jerry. Pacey even admitted the reason he came was because of Joey. TrueLovePJer Yeah I agree great camera work.

TrueLovePJer

But he wasn't like hmmm first we're going to sleep in the same bed and then I'm going to get upset so Joey will follow me outside so I can kiss her! Unlike Dawson who "orchestrated the whole night" so Joey would be convinced to choose him over Pacey. Everything with Pacey and Joey was spontaneous and just happened, not planned. And Pacey was all for her making decision for herself and he didn't force the issue upon her, unless she gave leeway.

COOLCAT200

Yes but that still is calculating on Pacey's part as he admitted he came because of Joey maybe not as extreme as Dawson of course but still.

TrueLovePJer

Yeah, but Jerry D was comparing the two like the they were on the same level, when they most definitely are not. And yes, Pacey did come because of Joey, but what is the harm in that? I honestly don't think Pacey was going to kiss her anymore, but all that changed when Joey was like "We're supposed to have our own history" and "it made me feel alive", so that basically gave him the OK to proceed with another kiss.

COOLCAT200

Ok but that is calculating on Pacey's part though as he said blew.......... but no one found out luckily but Dawson's Aunt.

Pacey:You know, for a bright girl, you can be really daft sometimes. Why do you think i came here? I came here to be with you! It's as simple as that. I mean, when you like somebody, proximity is a good thing.

TrueLovePJer

Yes, but he's not being manipulative in the process.

Sugz

Ther's a huge difference between being maliciously calculating and knowing you're hurting someone else in the process and literally following your heart. Before Stolen Kisses aired JOey and Pacey had decided that it was over, there was nothing else to even discuss and they'd go back to normal, so what was wrong with Pacey going with his friends to AUnt Gwens? What was calculating about that? Was he supposed to get penalized for his actions in CInderella Story while everyone else goes back to normal? Sure, he went mainly due to the fact that he loved Joey and wanted to be around her but thats not the same as going on the trip trying to seduce her. Things happened for a reason at Gwen's and none of it had to do with Pacey manipulating the situation, it was natural progression, things just played out on that trip, with Dawson and the Anti Prom everything was set up. Huge difference.

Other than that, I hated Aunt Gwen. I thought she was so exceedingly annoying from the second she weas bouncing around to "Wild Thing" painting when everyone arrived. We know that she's some amazing free spirit but that was overkill. Then her life is pretty much Joey's big neon sign guiding her to Pacey and the unknown and all she does is push her in the opposite direction of where she said her heart took her. Hypocrite much? I just never understood how Gwen could be so occupied with the little teenage drama going on. What adult gets so entrenched in who their 16 year old nephew is smooching?

Other than that I just thought the episode was really amusing and emotional. Andie, Will and Pacey and the pool shark thing was fun, I loved all of the little subtelties and underlying messages floating around and I adored the Dawson/Joey barn scene because, let's face it, it was really obvious that things were about to get good and that Joey was definitely not on the same page as Dawson romantically.

And of course the last Pacey and Joey scene is a scene that makes me wonder if chemistry really is as subjective as we all say it is, the emotion in that scene was so palpable how someone can say "Pacey and Joey dont have chemistry" is beyond me.

Jerry D

Granted, what Dawson did in The Anti-Prom was much more calculating than what Pacey did in Stolen Kisses, but the fact remains that both Dawson and Pacey did some calculating things to “get to” Joey. I know it’s pointless for me to argue that because this board is now about 98% Pro-Pacey and Joey, but I get so tired of the notion that Pacey was merely following his heart at the end of Season Three while Dawson was this conniving schemer out to hurt everyone because he had lost Joey to Pacey. In short, I hated the Season Three Love Triangle.

TrueLovePJer

Thanks Sugz! I was struggling with the point I was trying to get across and you explained it perfectly! So again, thank you

But he did. He couldn't accept the fact that Joey was in love with Pacey, thus he goes and makes himself look like an ass in "Show Me Love". He put all these claims and ultimatums on her, which was complete bs. And I don't think Dawson was scheming out TO hurt everyone, I think he was scheming so HE wouldn't get hurt, so he did anything in his power to prevent this, even if it did hurt others in the process.

COOLCAT200

I also hated the way the show choose to play it out. Had they done it differently I would never have hated P/J as much as I did in season 4. Sugz you are right on the chemistry issue but I wonder how anyone can watch the Kiss The Rain scene and say D/J do not have Chemistry. Pacey was also kind of calculating with the whole ''Ask Me To Stay'' on the wall thing kind of. I mean they both wanted Joey.

Sugz

Im sorry Jerry but if the shoe fits...
I really dont see how it can be argued that Dawson was far more scheming in late season 3 than Pacey. SUre, they both did things to try to win the girl they loved but to try to even approach putting Pacey on the levels that Dawson reached is insane to me. There were times Pacey pretty much gave up on everything FOR Dawson and Dawson was still going at it, case in point the end of True Love when Pacey told Dawson that Joey had chosen him and Dawson still acted as if Pacey owed him something. The fact of the matter was that both guys were in a sense following their heart, apparently Dawsons way of doing simply held a lot less concern for anyone else's feelings but himself. HOw many times in season 3 did we hear Pacey talk about how muchit hurt him to be hurting Dawson or how much he knew this would hurt his friendship with Dawson? And how many time did we hear Dawson hold a shred of concern for Pacey feelings in any way? None. My point exactly.

COOLCAT200

The thing is Some my disagree completly but in my opinion Dawson was clearly billed as the villain in the situation and Pacey the hero. Sure people like me defend Dawson but it was clear he was cast as the villain if you wanna call it that at the end of season 3. It was also clear Dawson clearly felt burned by Pacey but I think he was mad during his talk with Pacey in True Love because he knew deep down Joey was in love with him.

TrueLovePJer

COOLCAT, I don't think a lot of people argue that DJ had chemistry in the first two seasons, but after they broke up in "Parental Discretion Advised", I don't think they ever fully recovered. Now with what Sugz is saying, some people don't see the PJ chemistry at all, which is craziness if you ask me. Not because I am a PJer, but the chemistry is so evident and undeniable, people who know nothing about the show can see the sparks between PJ.

Nor did he ever apologize for his actions. The boy does not deserve any sympathy whatsoever. He got what was coming to him and he needs to just accept the consequences.

Faye4Josh

Lol I loved this quote from Jen too

Me too PHWAOR!!!

Yeah but he only said that to her because she outright asked him. He didn't plan to be with her and kiss her and everything, he just came simply because he wanted to be near her.

Totally totally agree Sugz. She was just so hypocritical, why could she not see it!!! And yeah exactly, why are you so bothered about who Dawson is with, and why does she assume that they are still in love with each other, like when she says about Dawson never being able to erase the kiss from his mind. They have already spoken about their relationship with each other and stated that they aren't together.

They may have both "wanted" Joey but it was clear that Joey didn't want Dawson but Pacey knew deep down that Joey was in love with him and wanted to be with her.

ITA, even in S4 he never apologised to either of them.

COOLCAT200

But for me personally I thought D/J had Chemistry till the end of the series . I also admit I do feel P/J had chemistry also. '

'ITA, even in S4 he never apologized to either of them. '''

I am fully convinced whoever wrote this stuff felt what P/J did was some kind of betrayal even if fans do not agree with them