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Old 12-11-2004, 08:53 PM
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Episode Discussion 309 "Four To Tango"



While Pacey and Jen try unsuccessfully to ignite the flames of passion that sparked between them on Witch Island, Jack unexpectedly finds a romantic possibility on the internet. Things heat up when Dawson discovers a condom in his bedroom that Pacey seems to have left behind after an unannounced visit. This leads Dawson to jealously suspect that Pacey has something going on with Joey after he follows the pair to a ballroom dancing class. In fact, Joey, is simply trying to win college scholarship money from the dasnce school, and has drafted Pacey as her unwilling partner in exchange for math tutorials. Ultimately, each of these friends comes to learn that true passion can't be forced, any more than learning to Tango can be a free ride to college.
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Old 12-11-2004, 09:04 PM
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I love this episode. I notice that Joey brings up the triangle when she is talking to Pacey. I also notice when Dawson is dancing with Joey, he says you and Pacey are just friends. She says yes, but in the series finale during Dawson's tv show, Colby asks Sam if her and Petey are just friends and she says something about her subconscious mind and he says that's what I was afraid of. I liked all the Pacey with Jen and Joey scenes. I loved watching Jen and Dawson looking all suspicious when they saw Joey and Pacey standing outside. I love that Joey gets jealous of seeing pacey kissing Jen and I notice after Joey storms out and forgets her coat, Dawson says something about sometimes you just want to grab someone's hand. Joey grabs Pacey's hand at the end. I love that Joey went back to get her coat, but also wanted to see Pacey and noticed how she checked the room to see if Jen left. I love how in anti-prom, Joey says it feels right because of the dance lessons. I also liked Andie and Jack scenes.
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:50 PM
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I don't really have any thoughts on this one only that I did not love or hate it.
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Old 12-13-2004, 02:05 AM
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I like this episode mainly for the moments between Pacey and Jen.

I also like the part when Dawson finds Pacey in his room. Pacey goes to leave and only has on one shoe... so funny.


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Last edited by pacenjen; 12-14-2004 at 01:24 AM
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:18 AM
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This was a good episode I thought. The misunderstanding at hand was funny and of course I love that this episode single handedly proves that the season 3 PJ romance was in no way out of the blue from Joeys perspective. The whole Starlight Ballroom scholarship thing was a bit contrived but still made for a good episode and this episode was also in the days of subtelty when everything didnt hit you like an anvil and the Pacey and Joey chemistry that would become the main storyline in later episodes was touched on by the dance teacher. I also think it was meaningful that Pacey was the one to point out to Dawson that there will be another guy if he doesnt get his act together.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:26 AM
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I agree about the anvils sugz. Watching the repeats, I notice the anvils now. In old days, I never even noticed
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is it true you went out with Joshua Jackson last year?
Katie Holmes: I fell in love for the first time and it was something so incredible and indescribable that I will always treasure it.

KH asked about kissing her ex (JJ) in front of the cameras all day:

"Maybe there's a hint of realism?"
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Old 12-13-2004, 08:58 PM
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Well folks, once again, here's my now-dated episode commentary from when this episode first aired.

I must say, for the most part, that there were elements of this episode that I really enjoyed, especially in terms of the interaction of all the characters, and I thought the show served as a good illustration of how complicated relationships can get sometimes.

I really enjoyed watching Jen and Pacey’s comical, and ultimately unsuccessful, attempts to “create sparks” with one another in Dawson’s room, and I especially enjoyed the way they both spoke at the same time, each person apologetically blaming themselves for the abject failure of their attempted tryst. I also thought that it was ultimately in character for both Pacey and Jen that they couldn’t go through with their “agreement” to have a relationship based purely on sex. The way I look at it, both these characters, despite their mutual claim that their “checkered” pasts confirms their affinity towards the idea of casual sex, are really caring, albeit wounded, individuals, and deep down, they’re really looking for someone to love and care about them. I think that Pacey and Jen finally realized that they are simply better off as friends, and that a purely sexual liaison wouldn’t work for them.

I felt bad for Jen in this episode, as she once again sees herself in the role as second fiddle to Joey. I thought that Jen observed, quite accurately, that Joey is the one both Dawson and Pacey turn to as a friend and confidante, and she is the one treated as an outsider.

I was very dismayed to see that Pacey has almost completely reverted to his “slacker” behavior, coming close, once again, to failing all his subjects. I think it’s completely wrong that it’s being implied that he owed all his scholastic success to Andie, instead of having him realize his own worth, and succeed on his own volition.

One aspect of the show that I had really mixed feelings about tonight was the way the Pacey and Joey story line was handled. I feel that the writers sent out a lot of conflicting signals concerning their friendship, and I grew rather weary of all the bickering between them. In many ways, I felt that some of their scenes together seemed forced and unrealistic, especially when they were so unwilling to get close to one another while they were dancing. It seems almost as if the writers are hitting us over the head with the idea that there’s some type of “sexual tension” between these two characters, and to me it comes off as contrived and disingenuous. I certainly know that many of us had complained about the lack of interaction between Pacey and Joey last season, but for me, in this episode, a lot of their scenes together simply rang false. I did enjoy certain scenes between them, though, especially when Joey expressed her moral indignation when she and Dawson caught Pacey and Jen making out in the coat room. In that scene, and in the scene at the end, I think that it was clear that Joey sees a side of Pacey that very few people see, and her heated words reflected her disappointment in what he was apparently doing. I think these scenes also showed that deep down, Joey cares for Pacey a great deal, as a friend. I do not, however, view Joey’s anger as reflecting any type of secret love for Pacey. Note: looking back, I couldn’t have been more wrong when I made that statement, now could I?

I really liked the interaction between Dawson and Jen, and I thought that dance teacher was completely correct when she said that Dawson and Jen were completely comfortable with one another, and had gotten over any “issues” between them. I thought that Dawson’s initial reaction to the idea of Joey and Pacey “hooking up” was rather immature and selfish, but also understandable, since it’s painfully obvious that he still loves Joey. To me, Dawson showed, once again, that he can sometimes have an incredibly self absorbed view of the world, pushing Joey away, but not wanting anyone else to have her. I thought that Pacey was very accurate when he said that Dawson doesn’t heed his own advice, and that he was in real danger of losing Joey to someone else unless he listens to his heart and acknowledges that he still loves Joey. On the other hand, though, I felt that Dawson showed real growth as a person in the later scenes in his understanding of Pacey and Jen’s situation, and that their proposed liaison more reflected loneliness and the desire to reach out to someone else than any prurient urges. I also liked the maturity and understanding he displayed when he explained to Joey that certain feelings among people are always there, even if those feelings are “wrong” in the terms of their own personal moral beliefs.

Finally, I really enjoyed the Andie and Jack story line, on every level. I welcomed the return of the “normal” Andie, and it was really nice to see her as a supportive and concerned sister, gently and solicitously helping Jack to “take the next step,” and try to meet someone. I also liked the idea of Jack meeting someone through the Internet, and I really got a kick out of the way Jack “froze” when Ben contacted him on IM. In my opinion, IM and the Internet can be a wonderful way for anyone to open themselves up to a whole new world of friendship, so I thought that Jack “meeting” Ben “on line” reflects the large role that the Internet plays in the lives of so many people. I was really touched by the way that Jack said that this was a whole new level in his life that he didn’t know if he was ready for, and I was really touched by the loving support that Andie gave him, especially at the end. I was disappointed, but completely understanding, of the fact that in the end, Jack couldn’t go through with meeting Ben, but the scene where he explained to Andie why he couldn’t “walk through that door” was incredibly moving.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode, and I’m really beginning to see a real improvement in the story lines this season.
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Old 12-14-2004, 11:48 AM
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Love this episode, Love the P/J stuff. The Dancing Doesn't Lie
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:05 PM
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Loved this ep.

I thought it was so obvious that Joey's over the top reaction to Pacey and Jen's kissing was latent jealousy or rather that she had deeper feelings for Pacey that even she wasn't yet aware of. At the time some D/Jers tried insist it was concern for her friends, but if it was just concern she wouldn't have blown her top so badly nor insulted Jen and tried to blame her.

Did the P/J interaction really seem false to you Jerry? Do you feel the same watching it this time round?

Because as far as I could tell that bantering was just a continuation of the new form of bantering started at the beginning of the year when they became friends. Not forced or false to me at all. Quite natural, I felt. I really enjoyed it.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:28 PM
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I agree about Joey's reaction at the sight of Pacey and Jen kissing Jerry D. When I 1st saw the episodes I felt the same way. She cared about Pacey as friend in that moment. She has gotten to know him during the last months and has seen the sweet and romantic part of him and she's indignated by his behaviour. I didn't see jealousy then. To be honest I didn't see any sign of Joey being interested in Pacey until the "To Green with love"episode. And even there there weren't strong signs of it. While I think that Pacey's interest for her began to show up from this episode on.
I like this episode but not that much. It's pretty much a passing episode.
I truly enjoyed the P/Joey scenes( very funny) as well as the P/Jen ones.
I also noticed the resurface of JEN/JOEY competition,with Joey's reaction to her and Pacey and JEN's words (about Joey) to Pacey. I loved when she was wondering why all the guys in the end fell for Joey and just consider her as a sexual object or a friend. I think that this thing has always hurt her deep inside. I also liked the P/D exchanges. Pacey is absolutely right. Dawson has to take in consideration the possibility of loosing Joey for good if he doesn't make a decision. I thought it was meaningfull that was Pacey the one who told him these things and funny when he said that probably sooner or later a guy,not his best friend, would've come and stolen Joey from him without asking. That guy would've been his best friend though...
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:47 PM
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I dont think that Pacey showed feelings for Joey in this episode any more than Joey showed feelings for Pacey. In fact it was Pacey who was concerned with getting it on with Jen all episode, but it was Joey who freaked out when she saw Pacey and Jen while Dawson sort of laughed it off. It was also Joey who went back to get Pacey at the ballroom. I think its a bit naive to say that all Joey had was friendly feelings of concern for Pacey at that point, I think it was a genuine shock to her that she felt what she did when she saw Pacey and Jen. Keep inmind how Joey reacted later on when she found out Pacey was supposedly only hanging out with Joey because Dawson had asked and when Pacey first kissed JOey how she reacted so harshly and the general concensus was why would she react like that if it wasnt a big deal to her.

I think from Joeys past actions we can deduce that she did feel something past friendly concern and its not a crazy notion seeing as JOey and Pacey were being set up to be together later on.
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:19 PM
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I dont think that Pacey showed feelings for Joey in this episode any more than Joey showed feelings for Pacey. In fact it was Pacey who was concerned with getting it on with Jen all episode, but it was Joey who freaked out when she saw Pacey and Jen while Dawson sort of laughed it off. It was also Joey who went back to get Pacey at the ballroom. I think its a bit naive to say that all Joey had was friendly feelings of concern for Pacey at that point, I think it was a genuine shock to her that she felt what she did when she saw Pacey and Jen. Keep inmind how Joey reacted later on when she found out Pacey was supposedly only hanging out with Joey because Dawson had asked and when Pacey first kissed JOey how she reacted so harshly and the general concensus was why would she react like that if it wasnt a big deal to her.
I agree with this. It was Jen, who pointed out both Joey and Pacey's overreactions. I think the point of this episode was to suggest that clearly something more than friendly feelings were developing between the two of them, but they're both pretty unconscious about their changing feelings.

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I think from Joeys past actions we can deduce that she did feel something past friendly concern and its not a crazy notion seeing as JOey and Pacey were being set up to be together later on.
Ditto to this too.
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:26 PM
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I don't think that Pacey showed his feelings directly but you can see from the way he looks at Joey,or talk about her to Dawson or later try very lamely to object that he likes her with Jen that he indeed feels something that goes beyond friendship for her. And from this episode on these feelings will grow and grow and become always more evident.
About Joey i still not see jealousy in her reaction. She reacted very badly even when she found Jack making out with Abby at Dawson's birthday party and we all know that she wasn't in love with Jack at the time. She didn't react well to Gretchen too when she saw her with Dawson and we all know that at the time she loved pacey.
Joey tends to overreact about these things. I think that she was getting closer to Pacey during these first episodes of season 3 and they were really becoming friends. They supported each other through the Dawson and Andy break ups and she had gotten to know the softer side of him(Just think at the way she reacted when he first showed her his boat"True Love". She was touched and thought it was a really sweet thing). She just saw the whole situation as absurd and immoral and the fact that a friend is actually doing it just indignate her. Especially because she knows how Pacey really is .And let's tell the truth the fact that Jen was somehow the lady just bothered her a lot. I didn't see anything strange in her reaction to Dawson either. When she did came back later she was actually just going back to take her coat. I don't even think she knew that Pacey was still there. Then when she saw him went to him to talk,because deep inside she knew she overreacted and Dawson's words also made her thinking about the situation.
From Cinderella story on is obviously a total different story. There are a lot of sings that actually show her feelings for him,but I really began to notice a returned interest in her only after the "To Green with love"episode.
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Old 12-14-2004, 08:22 PM
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About Joey i still not see jealousy in her reaction. She reacted very badly even when she found Jack making out with Abby at Dawson's birthday party and we all know that she wasn't in love with Jack at the time. She didn't react well to Gretchen too when she saw her with Dawson and we all know that at the time she loved pacey.
Yes, but difference with Jack is that he'd just recently been her boyfriend and broken up with her because he claimed he was gay. So it was understandable that she would be bent out of shape to find him not long afterwards making out with another girl. And even though she wasn't with Dawson he was her ex- boyfriend and so it was understandable that she might be weirded out seeing him kiss another girl like that because that happens. But with Pacey there was no real legitimate reason for her over reaction to seeing him kiss Jen even if she didn't approve of what he was doing.He wasn't her boyfriend, he wasn't even her ex. He was just a friend. And the fact is she did completely overreact to seeing him kiss another girl so it wasn't unreasonable to infer that there was something more than just friendly concern in her reaction.
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Old 12-14-2004, 08:34 PM
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Oh, i so love this episode!! Its great when the four of them have so much time together on screen. And, of course, i love this episode because it was the first one to give us some sings about the PJ love...
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