[Stela]

Yay! I saw the 7 a.m. re-broadcast of Castaways. I'm so happy I finally crossed that off my to-do list.

Comments:

Watching this episode, for the first time, almost a year after it aired gave me a distance and an objectivity I might not have had otherwise.

I woke up exactly at 8 a.m. So I didn't have to watch it live, which is a good thing considering the fact that "dull and pointless fluff" is an accurate description for this episode and FFwding commercials makes it go by quicker.

This newfound objectivity of mine made me appreciate the "depth" Josh put into his acting even when some of the lines he had to utter were unbelievable. I was able to feel some sympathy for Pacey in spite of the constant urge to roll my eyes, which made me want to smack Joey for being so obtuse and/or indifferent. Weird.

I'm not a P/Jer by any stretch of the imagination but when they kissed after she shaved him and then cuddled later in the ep, I found myself going "THAT'S IT"? It all fell very flat to me and I dunno what the heck I was expecting but it wasn't this remarkable lack of sexual tension. The only thing I perceived from Joey is that she wanted "comfort" and nothing more. I don't know why that sort of annoys me. Wow. Time really does put things into perspective.

A year ago had I watched this episode, I would've been releived and smug because this episode is really lacking...something. But now I just see it as just more of the weak writing and improbable situations that was all of season six.

I found myself wondering why P/Jers everywhere were so conformed with this episode but then I remembered just how AWFUL the last two seasons had been and just how ignored and disrespected P/J's history had been in all that time, and I realized that beggers can't be choosers and an hour of one's favorite couple, even if it is, well, fluff, was a pretty significant bone at the time. I'd probably have felt the same if it were D/J locked in the K-Mart, no matter how cheesy the whole thing was.

And lastly, do I regret that I waited this long to watch Castaways? Yes and no. Yes because I had built it up in my mind and gave it much more importance then it deserves. And no because, at this point, I have nothing to lose, which makes my opinion more valid.

Thanks Stela for being so prompt with your unbiased and objective response. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] I'm glad you watched it anyway.

It's always funny to hear a DC episodes dismissed because it was "fluff". What was the rest of those five and a half seasons? Meaningful, artful drama?

The thing I noticed about it, rewatching it today, was the craftsmanship that was put into it, as contrasted to just about all of Seasons 4, 5 and most of 6. The staging, pacing, music, dialogue and acting were simply of a more careful level of quality than so much of latter day DC.

And of course, though you predictably saw no sexual tension, that was exactly the little glitter that brought this episode to life. The obvious enjoyment the actors took in one another's performance, the way music was selected to enhance the humor of so many scenes, the intimacy of the body language, the honest non-chatteriness of the eye contact. Simply one of the best DC episodes of any season. And watching it all these months later, now that I've got nothing left to win, my opinion apparently is even more valid than it would have been. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I'm not at all sure you'd have reacted identically if this had been an hour of DJ, Stela, [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img], though I've got a question for you. Do you think they could have done a similar romantic comedy type of hour for DJ? Or any kind of solo hour? And what would it have been like - allowing for a similarly contrived premise just to get the entertainment ball rolling?

[notsomuch]

Oh Stela, yeah you finally got to watch it! And you only FF'd through the commercials? I am impressed, I don't think I could watch a whole 42 minutes (or however long the actual air time of an episode is) of only DJ, but I guess I'll never know.

And I wonder why you still call this a PJ bone, considering everything that happened after this (a PJ arc, a PJ ending, no DJ anvils). I think the only bone that was thrown in late season 6, came after the show went off the air, when Kevin said he had originally written a DJ ending. Cuz my defination of a bone is giving people a taste of something they are not going to get, no?

this remarkable lack of sexual tension.

This comment made me think of something on my season 2 DVD's. I didn't start taping this show until late season three, actually those episodes I taped when they were re-run during the summer, so I hadn't seen season two since it's original airing. I remember hearing how hot DJ were in the teaser of Tamara's Return. So while watching this on my DVD, I will admit they were cute, I was actually a DJ fan during the original airing, but even though they were in some potentially sizzling positions, it was just eh. Then the Pacey/Tamara kiss, standing through out, was hot. So it just shows how different people view things differently.

But I will agree that in Castaways, there wasn't as much sexual tension as there was comfort in each other's company. But I know I was tense watching the entire shaving scene, I was surprised Joey didn't jump him during the white noise speech, I know I would have.

[ 01-31-2004: Message edited notsomuch ]

[ 01-31-2004: Message edited notsomuch ]

[Sugz]

Yay Stela. That was a long time coming.

Your viewpoint is pretty much understood and expected I think. Being entertained by a couple who's made it a career to dramatize and overanalyze every aspect of..everything would probably train your entertainment tastes to shun something as fun as Castaways was. Everything from shaving to chasing each other around the store, playing board games to watching a movie, and playing hockey with those little plastic pucks. It was...fun, if anything and had "wacky hijinks" written all over it. It was meant to not only re-connect Joey and Pacey through their patented banter and not-so-heavy interaction but also re-connect and reacquaint the viewer with a pair that havent been together in a storyline in a long while. That would be far from meaningless fluff. It's actually more along the lines of beginning a meaningful storyline, but in a fun and non overdramatic way. And witha ll that drama that brought them together in season 3,it was the perfect way to do it. But as I said before, something I wouldnt think you'd be trained to appreciate after making googly eyes over the agony and pain that the DJ relationship gave you for so many years.

Secondly "fluff" and "a PJ bone", as notsomuch said would signify something that held no meaning inthe grand scheme of things (something like DOwntown Crossing). This episode certianly had meaning, it set up the second go-round of JOey and Pacey. To you that may be fluff, since JOey and Pacey were never supposed to have a second go-round according to your cronies and your sources, but to the rest of the viewing audience it marked a turning point in season 6.

If you wouldve said unrealistic, I'd give you that, but I think you chose the wrong words to describe and episode where two long-time characters confronted past issues, lived in the moment and then ventured into the future together.

I really hadn't ever thought about whether or not there was sexual tension in this episode. It felt sexy to me, but there was also definitely a comfort feeling to it. There was definitely no feeling of an impending sex scene. I remember when it aired, hoydenish took that as proof they weren't going for a PJ reunion, because actual sex would have made it serious. But I think it was the opposite. Sex would have made it frivolous, and in true DC fashion, would have signalled a quick ending. I really wonder if ANY shipper fan would have preferred the gripping and clinging hands of DJ's first sex scene to a scene of them whispering and curling up intimately together in a sleeping bag. They were showing the emotional bond of the couple, not just their obvious sexual attraction.

Another thing I noticed about it - because in spite of my obvious preferences, I've always tried to pinpoint what accounted for the way this "secondary" romance was allowed to usurp the traditional original couple - was the way Joey responds to Pacey in some of the moments. She knows when he's covering up, asks him for his "real answer", tells him to "Try" (one of her best line deliveries) to explain his feelings...things like that. Her manner towards him was so much more tender and intuitive than it was towards Dawson, less intimidated, more an equal partner.

I think this episode was the one that in the end nailed down the series finale coming out the way it did. It was like a breath of fresh air after the dreariness of the DJ resuscitation attempts of Season 5. And it seemed like an episode the writers and technical staff really put some effort into. This was the couple they enjoyed writing for. That really came through.

[COOLCAT200]

I find this all so interesting. I remember when all this first aired what I thought it was all for. I guess in my own little world I was so sure it was gonna end with D/J,I thought the P/J mini thing was done to give something back to the P/J fans and for closer reasons. I thought what she said in ''Love Bites'' was the end and I thought there dance was like a good-bye dance. Turned out everything I thought was dead wrong. JJ is a good actor and he made me almost feel sorry for him in Love Bites. I thought it was pretty mean of Joey to build his hopes up like that only to say she ''Does not feel it''.

[coldwater1010]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by julialex:
[QB]I really hadn't ever thought about whether or not there was sexual tension in this episode. It felt sexy to me, but there was also definitely a comfort feeling to it. There was definitely no feeling of an impending sex scene. I remember when it aired, hoydenish took that as proof they weren't going for a PJ reunion, because actual sex would have made it serious. But I think it was the opposite. Sex would have made it frivolous, and in true DC fashion, would have signalled a quick ending. I really wonder if ANY shipper fan would have preferred the gripping and clinging hands of DJ's first sex scene to a scene of them whispering and curling up intimately together in a sleeping bag. They were showing the emotional bond of the couple, not just their obvious sexual attraction.

I never really thought about the level of sexual tension either just because I didn't think the episode was supposed to be about sex. I thought the shaving scene and the the scene where she crawls into his sleeping bag were intimate because they showed me two people who were very comfortable in each others space, who trusted each other and cared deeply for each other.I agree if it had boiled down to sex then I definately would have seen that as the ultimate death knell since on DC nothing good ever came from having sex, cos as you know sex is bad and only ever leads to doom and gloom.
And funnily enough one of the reasons why I like this episode alot is precisely because, despite the ludicrous plot contrivance of being locked in a Kmart and the fact that my cynical mind believes it was a ploy to lure back a quickly disappearing viewership, this was a fun, thankfully angst free episode, that highlighted two actors who seemed to actually enjoy working with each other instead of just going through the motions. I even got the feeling that the writer actually enjoyed writing the episode for a change. Not only that but it finally allowed PJ a chance to deal with the aftermath of their relationship, something that was clearly long overdue and should have been done a season earlier. So as cynical ploys go it's one I have no problem living with especially since as Julialex said I think the revival of PJ at the end of s6 was probably a major factor in the decision to have them end up together in the finale.

I always thought the end of Love Bites was left deliberatley vague so that whatever choice she made in the finale could fit accordingly. I mean she says she doesn't feel it, but what does that mean.She doesn't love him? She doesn't feel secure enough about him to believe what happened with them before won't happen again? That it isn't the right time?I always wondered why if they'd really wanted the audience to think that she didn't love him anymore and that this was the end of PJ then why not just have her say that because that would have been real closure for him and the pj fans. Her saying she didn't feel it just felt like a get out jail free card for the writers. So if she ended up with Dawson then it could mean she didn't love Pacey anymore and if she ended up with Pacey it could just mean she was running scared. I was pretty surprised when they ended the show with PJ just because the mantra on this show for so long was that DJ would end up together regardless of whether it made sense or not, but if they'd gone the DJ route I'd have preferred they never ressurected PJ at the end of s6 and just kept up the PJ amnesia because the end of Love Bites just felt too unresolved to me. It would have just made me wonder what the last few episodes were about.

[ 01-31-2004: Message edited coldwater1010 ]

[newmom5497]

As a D/J'er, here is my take on what Castaways was all about:

Since the end of Season 4, the writers never really did deal with the Pacey and Joey romance. They sort of brushed it aside and decided to dive into the Dawson and Joey relationship again throughout season 5/and the beginning of Season 6. By the time Castaways came about, I think they all knew at that point that it was the end of the series and they needed to re-open the Pacey and Joey storyline to either "put it to rest" or to "re-address it". At that point, of course, they had no idea of the Series Finale, or that Kevin Williamson would have Joey end up with Pacey in the end. So they had to re-open the relationship since it was such a poplular romance with the fans, and an important relationship to Joey.

I think the episode suceeded for the most part with tying up some loose-ends between the two of them...and also leaving it open to "possibility" that they may get back together at some point. And by that point in Season 6, I think Joey still "felt" it with Pacey(no matter what the writers wrote in later episodes), and probably always would....just as she always would have feelings for Dawson in some way. I think the writers couldnt put Pacey and Joey back together at that point of the show because they had already developed the Eddie storyline too much.
Anyway...I think that is why the writers wrote Castaways...to show the fans that Pacey was always just as important to Joey as Dawson was(But in a different way)...and that she would always have a bond with him. And to also show that Pacey carried romantic feelings towards Joey throughout seasons 5 and 6...and that they never went away with him even though they broke up.

[newmom5497]

Joey Potter and the Capeside Redemption.

I've only seen this episode once, and I am glad I taped it today. It reminded me of the magic that the show once had. For the first time in MANY episodes(Besides Castaways), I really enjoyed every single minute of the show. And now that I have seen it again, I honestly think that the show should have ended with that episode. It really had all of the "elements" of a final episode and had the feel of it too. It left us with hope. Hope that Joey was finally breaking free of her childhood fears...hope that Jen and Jack would have a fresh start in New York City, and Jen would be working things out with her mother...hope that Dawson would be realizing his dream of being a director..and hope that Pacey and Dawson might become friends again.
But best of all there was no "choice" between Pacey and Dawson with Joey...Joey decided on herself, and her dream of going to Paris and of starting her "adult" life. ... and in a way she chose both of them....and then again, neither of them. I sort of liked that.

If they maybe would have thrown in a cameo by Andie, and possibly a better conclusion of where Pacey's life was going(as far as professionally, or maybe going to college etc.)...it honestly would have been a great series finale. MUCH better than the 2-hour one they altimatly settled with(which I never care for. And NOT because Joey chose Pacey, but because it just didnt "feel" right to me when I first watched it...it left Dawson alone, Jen dead and her baby without a mother. It just was not very hopeful to me..and alot of it just didnt make alot of sense.)

[Sugz]

To be honest...if DC wouldve went out without Joey choosing between Dawson and Pacey, it wouldve been called a let down.

Joey Potter and the Capeside Redemption was a nice episode...but for a finale? Far, far,far,far,far too boring.

[COOLCAT200]

I thought ''Joey Potter and the Capeside Redemption'' was a nice episode. One of my favorites of season 6 cause Dawson/Joey were finally talking again. A Andie cameo would have been nice. I found it a tad odd they Didn't have Pacey say good-bye to Jen,Jack and Grams. But he was off trying to help Dawson that was nice. I liked the ending showing Dawson/Pacey may work things out and become friends again. There was a cut scene shown in the trailer were Joey was watching from afar there talk.

[~*KJ PalmTree*~]

'Swan Song' is on right now. I like this one. It was one of those episodes where it had the very big sentimental moment, between D/J. "Go On Rainman, your life awaits." [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

& with Jack & Jen:

Jack: What is up ****?
Jen: Not much, Big Homo! - [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

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Thu, Apr 22
10:00 AM ET
The Importance of Not Being Too Earnest

11:00 AM ET
Instant Karma

[ 04-22-2004: Message edited kpalm83 ]

[Pace & Jo]

I just have a question for the fellow creekers. I never really watched the show until it was on TBS. Tomorrow is the finale which I havent seen. Im so sad bc its like a big part of what i love isnt going to be there anymore. Did you guys feel the same way? Its so sad bc not only do i have to deal with the dc finale tomorrow but also the friends finale.

[Stela]

I saw "Baby" today. I like Grams/Bessie banter. I like this episode altogether. Not so much "Hurricane" which also aired today.

I like the new boards!