Sugz

Many times on Dawson's Creek a character has said something that rang totally false to you. Something that totally contradicted either their own actions or their own words or really just defied common sense. Something that left your mouth hanging open in amazement that said character could have said such a thing because it was either so wrong in your eyes or just so stupid.

Now Im not talking about things that you just dont like, Im talking about things that honestly either made no sense to you or made the character look like an idiot.

Personally I thought about this and decided that there are two disclaimers to put on this thread. One, I know the writers never intended for an sort of continuity with their dialogue. They seemed to write for the moment and whatever sounded best so when it comes to making a couple look sweet, that dialogue I let slide. I also know that characters grow and change over the years so that one thing they may have said at age 16 may no thave been true at age 19.

Given all of those things I nominate my top 2 stupid things ever said on Dawson's Creek, and not because I didnt like them but because they really were senseless.

The first one was Joey telling Dawson in Coda that him kissing her was her most life altering moment. That put Coda over the top for me as the Miracle Bra of DC episodes, all propped up and padded. Either Joey was doing some massive ego stroking or she was just on drugs because Dawson kissing her was the dumbest answer ever to the question "What was your most life altering moment?" especially to someone like Joey Potter. Hey Joey, what about the time your mother died? Or your dad went to prison? Or when your nephew was born? Any of those change your life a little bit more than a kiss? Or maybe the time you got a chance to study in Paris and ditched the opportunity? Thats pretty life altering. Or the time your family's restaurant burned to the ground? Thats one of the things that made Coda so off the wall, dialogue like that.

And my second one was Mr. Brooks' friends crazy speech about Mr. Brooks ending up with his wife and not him simply becaue Mr. Brooks was her first love and how that somehow overtakes the 40 some odd years and the children he had with her. That guy must've been drifting into senility.

There's a few more but thats all for me.

Jerry D

I thught it was appalling and out of character for Pacey to say to Joey in Promicide:

You and I are trapped in this relationship. I can't take it anymore, Joey. When I'm with you, I feel like I'm nothing. I feel like I'm nothing. That's why I flinch when you come to touch me. It's why I never touch you. Why I never even think about it. Because when I start to, it just reminds me that I'm not good enough.

It was obvious to me at that point that the writers were just trying to torpedo Pacey and Joey's relationship by having Pacey act so out of character, and I still don't buy Pacey saying such harsh and cruel things to Joey.

Sugz

Especially given the fact that they had Pacey start acting like that in Promicide only. You need more than half an episode to establish a rant like Paceys.

ScarletGirl

A thousand times WORD to everything Jerry and Sugz said. Those examples were classic (and a large part of the reason I loathe and despise both Promicide and Coda), though for appalling-ness, I think I'd have to go with the Sheriff Andy "I got her body, he had her soul" moment. Horrific.

Anyway, I would like to nominate the "A Long Goodbye" comment by Pacey about how Dawson and Joey never really got their chance and that they deserved it, "because the way I see it," he continues, "you never did, and this world can use as many Romeo and Juliets as it can get." Granted, he sounded like he didn't buy it for a second (thank you, Josh), but c'mon! Would those words actually leave Pacey's mouth, after all the crap from the prior year? I don't think so!

coldwater1010

I agree with this one. I mean from the audience's point of view I can understand them thinking this couple never had a shot because the writers kept breaking them up before anything could happen, but from the perspective of the characters it made no sense. Not to mention even when he was all for them hooking up he never felt that way about their relationship, so why would he feel that way now especially since he felt their unholy alliance was part of the problem in his relationship with Joey.

I also nominate Mitch's speech to Dawson in 'Capeside Revisited' when he goes on about him overcoming great hardships or something to get his dream when he decides to throw UCLA away for Joey. Did I miss an episode or a season? I know I didn't always pay attention when this show was on, but that statement left me confused because I think I had a harder childhood than Dawson growing up and even I think I had it pretty damn easy. I know continuity was always a problem on this show, but even for these writers that was just dumb.

And just for the line that makes me cringe Jen's "I was sexualised way too young" Who talks like that?

And while I'm on a roll Pacey's speech to Miss Jacobs in the Pilot about him being the best sex she never had. Now I love Pacey and I think Josh is all kinds of cute, but a 15 year old virgin being the best sex an experienced woman could ever have? Unless she's the most unfortunate woman alive I don't think so. And I have to give her props for not laughing out loud because I'm not sure I could have shown the same restraint. That speech always makes me cringe.

QueenBitch

Great thread idea, Sugz, and I agree with the Coda answer to the life-altering event.

COOLCAT200

I see where this came from. I agree a parent dying like that should out way a kiss. I think the question should have been best thing that ever happened to you so her Answer of him kissing her could have fit. Nothing comes close to a parent passing away as far as life altering. But I still love Coda. As for Pacey saying that about there shot I tend to agree. I mean I can see Jack or Jen saying it but Pacey after everything that happened? Also Pacey was out of the blue with that Promicide rant They should have had a least 1 more epoisde showing his build up for it. He seemed ok when he called during that fishing trip.

Sugz

Well it not only didnt make sense to me on the level that there were a lot of other things that were more life altering but just the fact that hey, if it really had that great of an impact on her life why was it so short lived? Jut the very idea that your first crush kissing you at 15 would even register in your mind as something remotely close to "great" or "life altering" when you're 18 is just ridiculous. I look back a few years ago at things that were great to me and they're just petty now. Plus Joey and Dawson didnt even really stay together for that long so how life altering could it have been? Exactly what did it alter aside from ruining their friendship? I think the whole point of that whole conversatin in Coda was to prop up Dawson and Joeys past to make it look like they were something epic when in reality that entire episode was a fabricated friendship that didnt even exist during season 4. And it's no wonder that kiss was mentioned again as something "life altering" the writers were about to have them re-enact it at the window. it just feels very manipulative on the writers part.

COOLCAT200

Well they were friends in season 4 but I mean sure it was not hey let's go watch E.T like season 1 but from what they said they had been hanging out a lot and both getting over breakups so It's not anything off the wall to me because here are 2 life long friends saying goodbye for what they thought was going to be a long time. I don't know how long Joey had romantic feelings for Dawson that may have something to do with her comment about him kissing her.

Sugz

Well the end of season 4 was a big fat rush in general. They rushed to give Pacey and Joey break up worthy problems, they rushed to get Joey and Dawson back to at least remotely looking like comfortable friends again (it started pretty much 2 to 3 episode before the finale) so to be talking to each other on the level that they were, it was just so false and ridiculous and padded and the #1 evidence of that was Joeys comment on her most life altering moment. I mean really, if thats not trying too hard to get people to turn their attention towards DJ again I dont know what is.

newmom5497

The first one that popped into my head was in Season 5 in "Guerilla Film-making" when Joey was in the bathroom with Audrey and Pacey and she gives them her "blessing" to hook-up.

It just totally made no sense for her to be so "happy" with the whole thing considering just 6 months earlier she was crushed that Pacey broke up with her. And also considering how bitchy/jealous she was about any girl that Dawson showed any interest in over the course of the show.

She just seemed too "OK" with any girl Pacey was with in Seasons 5/6.
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And I know this one is going to be disputed...but to this day, I still cringe every time I hear Joey say to Dawson that sleeping with him was just "2 friends making a huge mistake"..when hours earlier she seemed so incredibly happy. She even says "I want more than anything for us to be together." The knowledge that Dawson was seeing someone in L.A. just didnt seem that earth-shattering to me for her to get so upset in "The Song Remains the Same". Especially considering he tells her that the girl meant nothing to him compared to Joey. (I'm not a very forgiving person, but even I think I would have given in if a guy said that to me).
TPTB should have made his relationship with Natasha a bit more serious for Joey to be so wigged out..like they were in engaged, living together, made her pregnant etc. But at that point, they had only been seeing each other for a few months(summer months).
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When I go back and watch Season 1, I always am so annoyed at how Grams was portrayed in some of the episodes when she was so blatently racist with Bessie and Bodie. It just does not resinate with her character the other 5 season when she was so open and understanding to MANY things.(she even dates a black man in Season 5).
I just found it hard to beleive that an older woman that was so strict and set in her ways her entire life, changes her ways so dramatically and so quick.
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Season 2--Joey telling Dawson "I don't want to know you" in the Season 2 finale. I just found that hard to believe and way too harsh when I first watched it..considering how much of a part of her life he always had been and how much he was always there for her.
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In "Secrets and Lies"...when Andie was on a date with that creep Rob and she lied about his sexual advances towards her(and then Pacey and Andie hook-up briefly). I thought that in that entire episode she was particularly nasty to Joey.....it was just very out of character for Andie.

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And finally...these are not so much "Lines/dialogue" but moreso incidents that happened to one particular character that really seemed "out of character" to me.
Dawson turning down the MANY women who offered to sleep with him over the course of th show. Come on. Yes..he is suppose to be this "noble", do-the-right thing character so one or two times turning down sex I can see...but ALL of the time?? Specifically him turning down Joey in Season 3. 6 months earlier he was in the rowboat asking her to sleep with him, and there she is standing in front of him half-naked offering herself to him and he says no. Please.

ScarletGirl

So rushed. Not to mention that just a few episodes prior, Joey was terrified to tell Dawson she had had sex with Pacey, and he had told her that he "didn't know" how he felt about it (like it was something he needed to stamp his approval on anyway), thus making them more awkward around each other - only to then do a 180 and have Joey confiding to Dawson about sex not being what she thought it would, to then talking very matter-of-factedly about not telling him from the get-go. Very contrived - and done solely to make the supposed DJ friendship in S4 seem solid, when for 9/10 of the season it was anything but.

Oh, and let me add how totally off the mark Audrey's "he was my Dawson" speech about her high-school boyfriend was. Because, right - a two year long romance and a breakup based on "we were going in two different directions" is so similar to DJ. Except, eh, not so much.

newmom5497

I just thought of another one.

In "the Te of Pacey" when Pacey and Joey walk in on Dawson and Gretchen making out in the basement. In the following scenes both Joey and Pacey seemed ticked off about it. First of all, Pacey seemed to be fine with Gretchen pursuing a relationship with Dawson the episode prior to that, so I don't know why he was so peeved about it.
And then JOEY giving Dawson an attitude in the the Whitter kitchen in the same episode(te of Pacey)...like she was ticked off about him and Gretchen being a "couple". A few episodes prior to that she told Dawson that Gretchen would be lucky to have a guy like Dawson and saw them kiss under the mistletoe..so she obviously knew that they were starting a relationship. And besides, she was with Pacey so she really had no reason to be mad/jealous about it.
She seems fine with it in later episodes. It just seemed out of character for her in that one scene in The Te of Pacey to be so ticked off.

Along the same vein, but sort of the opposite reaction...in "Appetite for Destruction" Joey also seemed a bit too OK with Jen/Dawson hooking up by the end of the episode. The episodes prior to that it seemed that Joey wanted to pursue another relationship with Dawson, and then Dawson goes and sleep with Jen and is now her boyfriend. Joey just seemed a bit too OK with both Dawson and Jen. It just wasnt in character for her to be so understanding..especially when it came to Dawson.

coldwater1010

Well I'm not sure she was all that fine about it. I think she was trying to be stoic and mature and not do a 'Dawson' and completely fly off the handle and cause a scene. I mean she's still going on about it in the next episode to Pacey of all people, which pissed me off to no end, and then in the 100th ep she bitches out Jen about it when she expresses concern about her hooking up with Charlie.

I thought it was far more weird considering the special bond we were supposed to see with these two that she was relieved about not having to deal with him during his hour of grief. I mean I understand how hard it is to know what to do when someone goes through something like that, but considering Dawson is supposed to be the love of her life, her soulmate it seemed odd that she would be more than happy to pick up the slack for her.

Speaking in this vain Natasha's speech to Dawson about realising how much he'd suffered after seeing him with Joey always seemed like complete nonsense to me. I mean the guy dumped her on her answering machine ,which was kind of tacky to me, to hook up with another girl. I think most women would have told him to go jump in a lake after that. I know I would.

Also another one I just thought of. Pacey's speech to Audrey in Swan Song. Audrey as of his great loves? I mean I know he liked her and that he was attracted her and had fun with her, but when you compare his relationship with her to his relationships to both Joey and Andie I can't see how it even compares. He doesn't go after her when she breaks up with him because of Alex and then moments after the break up almost sleeps with another woman and then only chases after her because Joey drags him along to the airport. I mean he didn't seem all that heart broken about not spending the summer with her. There was nothing about this relationship that made me think this boy was madly in love. It just felt like the writers didn't know what to do with either of these two characters so they just decided to hook them up and never thought much about the relationship beyond that.

Sugz

Keep in mind, Im not talking about things that were out of character or that you didnt like, Im talking about things that just made no sense. Joey telling Dawson she didnt want to know him at the end of season 2 and JOey telling Dawson they were two friends making abig mistake were NOT stupid comments given the circumstances. They were understandable.