[wistfuldreamer]

^ Because you have a dirty mind and having one about this couple only makes you queasy *sp?*.

[Deb D]

Right on

[Cris]

Hey guys! How come I didn't post here for more than two days!?!
It's the world cup!

But nothing changed, I still hate PJ!

[Deb D]

Same here

[sweetee]

Me too.

[Deb D]

We are simple people but our theme never wavers.

[Cris]

Definitely, of course some other things (and a way more important than PJo) come in the way, but we can't never forget we don't belong to the cult of the dead snails or the sinking boat or the dead flowers or the dead Picasso (aka Burt Reynolds). We're all about things that are actually alive and not a result of static!

[Deb D]

Heh. Burt Reynolds.
You know I was thinking of another dead PJ symbol...Well. kind of. Remember Will Krudski, aka Kruddy, the sole PJer created for the sole purpose of being a PJer? Well he appeared on DC for a total of three episodes before going off to launch the spin-off 'Young Americans' which lasted an amazing EIGHT episodes before flunking. Yeah, even Kruddy got killed off.

[Brighter Than Sunshine]

^ It's so symbolic.

[Cris]

Originally Posted by Deb D Heh. Burt Reynolds. You know I was thinking of another dead PJ symbol...Well. kind of. Remember Will Krudski, aka Kruddy, the sole PJer created for the sole purpose of being a PJer? Well he appeared on DC for a total of three episodes before going off to launch the spin-off 'Young Americans' which lasted an amazing EIGHT episodes before flunking. Yeah, even Kruddy got killed off.

Yeah, the lonely PJer!! One more! Ha!

That's the way Pacey and Joey check their symbols:

Pacey: Snail?
Joey: Dead!

Pacey: Flowers?
Joey: Dead!

Pacey: Bo...boat?
Joey: Don't be such a wuss, it's dead!

Pacey: Richard?
Joey: Dead!

[Brighter Than Sunshine]

Who's Richard and what does Burt Reynolds have to do with anything?

[Deb D]

Love the checklist Cris What happened to The Little Mermaid? Does she die too?

Brit, Richard-the-wife-stealing-Picasso is the guy who Aunt Gwen left her 'boring lawyer' husband for. I always imagine he looks likes Burt Reynolds. Richard died of a heart attack.

ETA: Speaking of Richard, since who know when I'll get to Love Bites, I'll re-post my Stolen Kisses lecture:

Good morning everyone.
Let us open our texts as I insert the season 3 DVD into the decrepit and generally malfunctioning piece of equipment that is the university’s sole DVD player.
As is my custom I begin with a quick look at the title: Stolen Kisses. Now based on the fact that the only people who kiss in this episode are Pacey and Joey, we can assume it’s referring to them. The word ‘stolen’ here can be taken in two ways and I think both are applicable. Firstly ‘stolen’ being secretive and hidden and also ‘stolen’ as in Joey and Dawson belong to each other. This second usage is also seen in the finale of the show so I think we get the message that PJ ARE SO DARN WRONG BECAUSE STEALING IS A CRIME AND IT’S DJ ALL THE WAY BABY *heave, breathe*
Let us proceed and as we journey through this episode (which will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first episode I ever watched), and I will stop and yap on about anything that takes my fancy.

We begin with the aforementioned couple Dawson and Joey who are walking along the Leery pier.
Joey: What are you so smiley about, Dawson?
Dawson: Look at us, Jo. What have we become?
Joey: Care to expound?
Dawson: Spring break! Time when most kids our age go visit some exotic, sun drenched locale, put on skimpy bathing suits and ingest mass quantities of liquor. What do we do? We go visit my aunt.
Joey: It's a ritual. It was our ritual. I'm glad we're going, I love Aunt Gwen.
Dawson: And she loves you.
Joey: I can't believe she's selling her house.
Dawson: I know! It's like the end of an era.
Joey: Do you think we can rope Jack and Andie into one of our famous late night karaoke sessions?
Dawson: Okay, I thought we agreed to go on living the rest of our lives as if that never happened.
Joey: Dawson Leery, ashamed of his own youth. You love that karaoke machine and you know it.
Now I have a few things to say about this opening sequence:
1. Joey is looking very cute and perky Potter with a high pony tail and she is wearing lipstick that looks suspiciously like ‘wicked red’. Now since Dawson, Jack and Andie are the only other people who are meant to be going on this trip and Jack is gay and Joey isn’t, I’m assuming she’s looking pretty for Dawson and Dawson only since she’s never been one to get all glammed up for just herself. Mmm, perhaps she has sub-conscious designs on Dawson.
2. I love that they have rituals that involve karaoke and visits to aunts
3. I love that Aunt Gwen loves Joey and that all the Leerys love Joey unlike the Witters who can’t even get her name right….

As they approach the car, Pacey strolls up with bags and another guy who turns out to be a Will Krudski (alert: promo for new spin-off on the WB!)
The last time that anyone has seen this mystery man was when Dawson saw him kicking Pacey’s butt around the playground. Aww, how come we didn’t get to see that. It would have been satisfying to watch.
Will responds: Yeah, well what was I suppose to do? He was calling me Will Cruddy.
Joey at this moment shares a brief look with Pacey and then turns away looking distinctly uncomfortable and a little queasy. Now, I assume the director was trying to show the tension between the two in light of the recent mauling by the side of the road but honestly all that happens in that moment is Joey thinking to herself: “Holy crap. I can’t believe that someone who came up with the nickname ‘Cruddy’ out of ‘Krudski’ put his lame ass lips on mine.”
Pacey does admit that once Will left town he became king of the playground. King of the Playground. I may refer to Mr Witter as that from now on.
Will has returned to town to catch up with his old friend, the King of the Playground whom he hasn’t seen since he was 8. This same old friend who called him Cruddy and who he had to subsequently beat up. Mmm, great grounds for a sudden friendship in the late teens. Me thinks he may be here so that at least one sole character on the show roots for PJ. Contrivance much?
King of the Playground then says he and Will are inviting themselves along for the trip. Of course he wants to go on the trip. He and Will have nothing in common or anything to talk about. They desperately need to be in a group setting. Joey looks increasingly sickened by the idea. There’s none of those secret grins and hopeful looks that she had when she was crushing on Dawson in season one.
Dawson agrees and Andie arrives which gives King of the Playground and Joey a moment to chat. Well not really chat. Joey glares and yells and King of the Playground looks whipped. Hey not so King of anything anymore…The scene is strangely prophetic of their season 4 interactions.
Joey: Hey. So, umm, I thought you were sitting this one out, Pacey.
Pacey: I was. Until Will showed up on my front doorstep, and… Ummm, I just thought I should show him a good time, and…
Joey: And?
Pacey schlumps off.

We later catch up with the five at what I am assuming is a roadside diner on the way to Aunt Gwen’s. Here Will is the centre of attention on the hot seat thread and Andie in particular is impressed by his answers. Aunt Gwen then becomes the main topic of interest. It transpires that she lives life on her own terms (Joey in particular appreciates this fact) and was married to this uptight lawyer. She had this picture perfect suburban life and then she met Richard, who was this crazy, bearded painter - about 20 years older than her. She left her husband for him and never looked back.
Pacey: Are we gonna get to meet this wife stealing Picasso? There’s that word ‘steal’ again. Well, we’ve met you Mr King of the Playground so Hi!

Dawson: Unfortunately their happily ever after only lasted a couple years. Richard died about a year ago of a heart attack.
What the hey?! Another dead PJ symbol!! Snails, boat, corsage, butterflies (life span of 3 days) and now Richard the wife-stealing Picasso.
Will: I mean, isn't it better to have a short time with somebody that you really love, than a lifetime with somebody who's basically a roommate? It's just a thought.
Oh lordy. A giant dig at DJ I assume, who are so much more than roommates. But at least we get the idea that PJ are meant for a SHORT time. Amen. No real love there though Will. Trust me.
The scene ends with a slow dragged out shot of the gang all digesting these thoughts and looking awkwardly around. I’m assuming this is to give the viewer time to think of what that means in terms of DJ versus PJ but since none of other characters know what the heck is meant to be inferred by Will’s ideas, they just seem nervous and desperate to lose this new and inappropriately intense guy in the diner’s bathroom.

Will however is determined little fellow and is still with them when they arrive at Aunt Gwen’s. Gwen, as we’ve already established, is a ‘wild thing’ and just to remind herself and us, she plays the song at every opportunity even while she’s painting. Cause she’s an artist. Remember? An artist who lives life on her terms. And hey did you know Joey’s an artist too? Wow, what a coincidence. *sigh*

Dawson yells above the song and finally Aunt Wild Thing turns around from her painting and singing. She can do both at the same time. Way cool. Yawn.
Gwen: Oh, Dawson! (turns down stereo) Oh! You made it! Hi!
Made it?! Huh? Did she seriously think they were all going to crash? Does she know about Dawson’s speed boat incident? If she was doubtful of their survival and ability to get to her house she sure didn’t look worried what with all that painting and singing.
She then says to King of the Playground: And this must be Pacey.
Pacey: I see my reputation proceeds me.
What? Got tickets on yourself much? What reputation? It can only be a visual one, like ‘he’s got a reputation for brown hair and brown eyes and walks with a swagger’ cause literally Pace, that’s all you’ve done so far.

Aunt Wild Thing puts the King of the Playground in his place with Actually, we've met before.
Pacey: We have?
Gwen: Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to remember it. Hey, but Pacey remembers everthing!! It was years ago at my sister's 4th of July picnic, and you were chasing (point to Joey) this one around and teasing her mercilessly. And when I went to intervene, you said to me 'Hey lady, step on my buzz why doncha?'
Aw, I get it! *anvil drops heavily on my toe* Pacey and Joey have like grown up together and he always liked her cause he chased and teased her. Mmm, I suspect this must have been after Will left and so Pacey was desperate for someone else to pick on and was at the same time inordinately proud of his new King of the Playground status.
Pick on someone your own size Pacey.

Aunt Gwen then gets further stuck into Pacey with her comment to Will: Hi. Friend of Pacey's… not a good sign.
Ouch! But Aunt Wild Thing I thought you were fond of reckless wife-stealing Picasso’s?! Maybe it’s because Richard had a beard and Pacey doesn’t. Hey! That’s why Pacey grew stubble in season 6. He was after Aunt Gwen. After all, we know about the King of the Playground’s bizarre mother complex. (Thanks Joey. I’ve always loved that line).

Later that night. Joey exits the bathroom in her robe, ready for bed. Pacey is waiting outside the door for her like a crazed stalker.
Pacey: Hey.
Joey: Tell me Pacey, is our conversation this week gonna consist solely of monosyllable grunts?
I’m happy to tell you Miss Potter that you’ll later add shouting, arguing, endless discussions about Dawson and long periods of silence to your interactions with the King of the Playground.
The next piece of dialogue is filled with a strange and icky underlying tone of sexual innuendo which I will simply highlight and let you all take in for yourselves.
Pacey: Jo, this is neither the time nor the place to be discussing events of weeks past.
Joey: Look, who wants to discuss? I thought we agreed it was no big deal?
Pacey: It isn't.
Joey: Fine. So there should be no weirdness between us.
Pacey: Right. You're right. I think we may have a small problem.
Hee! No long fingers there…*sigh*

They go into the bedroom that they are all sharing. Dawson, Andie and Will are already in their sleeping bags on the floor, leaving no space but the bare full size bed. This situation is so contrived and ridiculous I can’t even talk about it except to say that if any of the boys were gentlemen the two girls would have the bed.
But you know we have to set up a situation where Joey feels alive so the scene continues in its stupid way with Joey yelling at her whipped dog the King of the Playground to do something about this because, yuck, she so doesn’t want to sleep next to him. My word, she’s constantly so disgusted by him and rude to him anyone would think that she really truly loves him. This relationship is SO year 2.
No one budges from their comfortable space on the floor. What Dawson, Andie and Will aren’t saying is that they’ve all checked at the bed, noticed the bed bugs and are happy to lie on the floor with clean sheets.

After some snapping at each other, King of the Playground and Joey hop into the bed and lie there with their eyes open because you know they just want to jump each other’s bones. Thankfully the presence of three other people in the room dampens the lust factor.
They wake up the next morning as Joey pretends to be asleep, Pacey leans in to smell her morning breath and brushes against her arm and then feigns sleep too. With much dramatic yawning and stretching both open their eyes and trundle to breakfast.
Aunt Wild Thing says she wants Dawson and Joey to herself all day and the rest of the rent-a-crowd can just pee off and do their own thing except there’s nothing to do in the town except play pool. Andie inserts phallic and Tom Cruise jokes here.

A little scene at the pool hall establishes that Will and Pacey know a bit about pool and also making money by pretending to suck. Andie unwittingly contributes to their deception. This scene also contributes to the whole ‘the King of the Playground is cool and carefree like Richard the wife-stealing Picasso’ because Pacey knows his way around the pool hall and also how to ‘steal’ other’s money.

This contrasts with Dawson, who on the other hand is searching through Aunt Wild Thing’s works for something to hang on his wall at home. Heh. Way more my kind of guy.
Gwen: Okay, so the movie posters are down, film has lost its lustre… and I am detecting a significant lack of smooching, hand holding, general all around cuddliness between the two of you. So, come on, tell me everything!
Aw, I noticed that too. Tell us what happened DJ!!
Dawson: To make a long soap opera short, we got together…
Joey: …which was so completely overwhelming that it forced me to retreat into this long protracted period of soul searching…
Dawson: …which sent me into a dizzy and downward spiral into depression. Then I finally manage to get it back…
Joey: …it was exceptionally bad timing. And then he got back from summer vacation…
Dawson: …the possibility of having my heart ripped out of my chest once again, didn't sound as appealing as it once had. So, we decided that it would be best to just be friends.
I love that they know each so well that they finish each other’s sentences. What’s even better is that they speak in sentences unlike PJ’s ‘monosyllabic grunts’.
Joey: And then he asked Pacey to look out for me…
Gwen: What does Pacey have to do with this?
Joey: Oh, nothing.
AMEN!

Flushed with their pool hall success; Andie, Pacey and Will take Aunt Wild Thing out to wash a horse. There’s water and soap and sponges and everything. Oh and even a horse.
Dawson and Joey take some time out to spend some time talking even though they’ve had the whole day together. Aww. As they chat I’m distracted by Dawson’s incredibly long fingers as he twists a strand of hay. Dawson decides that they still make sense of each other’s lives and that they will one day be together. Joey thinks that growing up may mean growing apart but you can tell she loves Dawson’s optimism. The King of the Playground gets all insecure and tries to get them to stop talking by coming down to wash the horse.


We later find Joey and Aunt Wild Thing admiring one of the latter’s paintings.
It is a painting of a house that Aunt Wild Thing painted when told to paint her future. And would you believe she now lives in a house that looks like the painting?! Joey is astounded. I am too. Firstly because the house doesn’t really look like the one Aunt Wild Thing lives in. Okay. Both have windows and a door. Secondly I am astounded that anyone’s future means just a house and thirdly if it is so significant why is Aunt Wild Thing now selling the house, which was her future? Does she have another future?

Joey goes on to ask Aunt Wild Thing if she has any regrets about Richard the wife-stealing Picasso.
Gwen: Joey, I got married too young, and I sold out in a big way. I stayed in a relationship that was safe and comfortable and then I met this man who made me feel alive for the very first time. Those kinds of feelings just won't be ignored. You know I owed it to myself to explore them.
Thanks Aunt Wild Thing for introducing the phrase ‘feel alive’. We’ve not heard the end of it since. And may I ask when feeling ‘safe’ and ‘comfortable’ was the opposite of feeling alive? That must mean that feeling ‘scared’ and ‘painful’ is ‘feeling alive’. Oh wait. Okay, then PJ can feel alive all they want. I’ll take safe and comfortable any day.
I notice too that Aunt Wild Thing doesn’t say she was happy with the wife-stealing Picasso. She just thought she should ‘explore feelings.’ Doesn’t really answer Joey’s question does it.

Aunt Wild Thing then shows a painting of DJ as kids. It’s her favourite painting. She likes it better than the ‘future house’ and everything. Aww me too. Once again, at any mention of DJ the insecure stalker ‘the King of the Playground’ silently appears and stares moodily at the picture after giving Joey a monosyllabic grunt.

Andie and Will have a little conversation where we learn that Will is visiting Pacey only because his family life sucks. Yep, knew that they weren’t THAT great friends.

The whole group is later gathered for some karaoke. Dawson is reluctant to perform but Aunt Wild Thing drags him and Joey up and they sing Daydream Believer. They both relax and get into it very quickly exchanging smiles as they sing the familiar words. The King of the Playground stares at them moodily and at last overcome by the powerful force of DJ’s magic sulks out of the room. Joey notices and thinks ‘oh lord, here we go…” and stops smiling. Cause she only smiles with Dawson. She just has melty face around Pacey.

As will later be her custom she heads out to make up with him.
Pacey rants that he can’t compete with Dawson and all the DJ symbols and rituals (no but you’ll always try and you’ll always find yourself lacking, so much so that you’ll eventually feel like nothing and how about your own symbols like the snails and Richard? Oh sorry, that’s right. Both dead before the PJ relationship even gets off the ground).
Pacey says he hates their arrangement and Joey admits it’s weird. But then she suddenly blurts out that she felt…it. It? Yes it. I shudder thinking of their early conversation about that small weird thing between them. Pacey continues this horrible train of thought by asking how ‘it’ felt. But there are no phallic references this time. No, ‘it’ is actually code for ‘feeling alive.’
As I’ve said before it was actually the static electricity or as Dawson, Andie and Will suspect, a bed bug jumping from Pacey’s arm and biting Joey. Remember that’s why they were all on the floor.
The King of the Playground is so excited by this news he announces he’s going to lay one on Miss Potter. Joey says a very romantic: ‘You can’t.’
But the King of the Playground is not to be deterred and he starts the PJ ritual of counting to 10 without actually counting to 10 and totally messing up math and lays one on her.

Aunt Wild Thing comes out to dry the horse and discovers them mid-smoochie and sends a chastened King of the Playground inside to bore Andie, Dawson and Will to death with some more bad singing. She tells Joey that she should tell Dawson about the lip lock with the King of the Playground.
Gwen: Something tells me that when you kiss a boy, it's not a mistake. You should know I'm the last person on earth who's going to judge you. But you can not be reckless with someone else's feelings. What if that had been Dawson who had seen you, and not me? Do you think he'd ever be able to erase that from his mind?
No! And unfortunately neither can I!

Andie has a little chat with Pacey and tells him that she wants him to be happy. Hun, Pacey is not going to be happy with Joey so I feel for you in getting that crap line from the writers which is essentially meant to be you supporting the PJ relationship.

DJ have a little talk where Joey tells Dawson he was never a dork, okay, maybe there’s a tad of the dork about him as a kid. They look through photos of their former selves and Aunt Wild Thing who now is doing as much silent stalking as the King of the Playground, creeps in and gives Dawson the painting of him and Joey as kids. She tells him that all she wants in life is to know that she did one thing well: love somebody. Shout out to Dawson’s love for Joey here because throughout this show we saw his love for Joey develop into this real, selfless and constant thing.
Gwen tells Dawson to close your eyes… now, paint your future. What do you see?
His mind fades to Joey (aww) who is back trying to talk to the King of the Playground. (It is after all, 8:55pm) Joey thinks her feelings for him may be more than a hormonal glitch (are ya quite sure Joey? because you yell at the King of the Playground a hellava lot rather like someone with severe PMS).
She tells him that she’s tried to talk to Dawson about the two of them but can’t find the words. As is what will become Pacey’s custom, he doesn’t believe a word of what Joey says about Dawson and asks her flat out how she feels.
Joey’s not excited, happy, in love, confused or anything like how you feel at the beginning of a relationship. She feels…awful. Yes awful, because she’s looking at the relationship not as her and Pacey, but as her and Pacey AND Dawson. Yep, Dawson always has the priority. He is the gauge by which she judges her emotions.

The King of the Playground admits that he hates the idea of hurting Andie or Dawson and says he can’t keep initiating the random maulings.
Pacey: If you felt even one shred of what I feel for you, then we wouldn't be standing here having this conversation. Ah, but you are having ‘this conversation’ so what does that say about the depth of her feelings for you? Huh? Mmm. I thought so.

Overwhelmed by the number of words and sentences used in their interaction and completely running out of anything else to say plus desperate not to hurt insecure Pacey’s feelings; Joey kisses The King of the Playground. Fade to black.

Things that interested me in this episode:
1. Richard the wife-stealing Picasso and symbol of the ‘feeling alive’ man is DEAD.
2. The above fact and Will’s phrase ‘short time’ indicate the intended length of PJ’s relationship.
3. Dawson is optimistic about his future reunion with Joey.
4. Dawson sees his future with Joey.

[wistfuldreamer]

You know I loved that lecture.

In the original version of the Little Mermaid she died and she had true love with the prince, but she died. So there you go.

[Deb D]

Thanks so much for confirming that.

[wistfuldreamer]

I read it once and it creeped me out, it ruined the story for me forever...like PJos relationship ruined a lot of things for me.