[barbeegurl00]

I don't think we can say Dawson didn't mean his "you're a failure, Pacey" words when EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they fought, Dawson used those words. Over and over, it was belittling him and calling him pathetic, a failure, obsessed with sex, etc. The drunken birthday rant spoke volumes, and only mirrored his feelings from Detention. In None of the Above it was repeated, and again throughout seasons three and four, and even in the season six fight! That's why I am not on the D/P friendship fan train.

Also, it REALLY bothered me how much Pacey valued the friendship more than Dawson. See season four, when Pacey was having lingering looks at Dawson and still asking for his friendship back (like in Two Gentlemen of Capeside), whereas Dawson was just way too preoccupied with getting good with Joey again. He didn't seem to care much about Pacey. Like he said in season three, his friendship with Pace was done, and he needed to concentrate on the most important friendship/relationship in his life -- his with Joey. How sad for Pacey.


Gah... anyway, anti-DJ. I am loving this quote:

That ep had some good anti-DJ undertones to it, though. I mean, it was their first kiss, which was so unromantic and on a dare. They are "soulmates" but would only kiss when being forced into it, pretty much. If they had such mind-blowing chemistry (insert ), you would think the kiss would have made Dawson think, "Huh...maybe there is something there...." but it didn't. In the end, Dawson still chose Jen over Joey.

So true!

[Myfirstlove]

Originally Posted by barbeegurl00 (View Post) Also, it REALLY bothered me how much Pacey valued the friendship more than Dawson. See season four, when Pacey was having lingering looks at Dawson and still asking for his friendship back (like in Two Gentlemen of Capeside), whereas Dawson was just way too preoccupied with getting good with Joey again. He didn't seem to care much about Pacey. Like he said in season three, his friendship with Pace was done, and he needed to concentrate on the most important friendship/relationship in his life -- his with Joey. How sad for Pacey.

It also bothered me as well, like the last fifteen/sixteen years of their friendship didn't count and everything was Pacey's fault and Pacey only and poor innocent, virginal Joey didn't do anything wrong I totally hated Dawson in Two Gentlemen of Capeside in the end, it bugs me that Pacey came and apologized (which I dont think he should have) and all Dawson does is...just stare at his face and act like he isn't even their and then the same thing from the Usual Suspects, Pacey is talking and Dawson isn't listening...whatever, Pacey did so much better with Jack and Doug

[wingster]

Originally Posted by barbeegurl00 (View Post) I don't think we can say Dawson didn't mean his "you're a failure, Pacey" words when EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they fought, Dawson used those words. Over and over, it was belittling him and calling him pathetic, a failure, obsessed with sex, etc. The drunken birthday rant spoke volumes, and only mirrored his feelings from Detention. In None of the Above it was repeated, and again throughout seasons three and four, and even in the season six fight! That's why I am not on the D/P friendship fan train.

actions speak louder than words...and dawson in s2 to me proved his friendship by letting pacey stay at his house, waiting at the principal's office with him, making joey walk home so they could go on a boat trip

[youvegotwings]

Let's remember guys that this is the anti Dawson and Joey thread; the conversation about why Dawson sucks more than Pacey is off topic. I let it slide for a page or two but now it's time to get back on topic please

[allybubba]

Originally Posted by JeannaJam (View Post) They were always so awkward when they kissed.

Ugh.. wasn't it horrid?
It's not like they didn't have chemistry.. they had negative chemistry.. if that's even possible with how little they DID have.. which was none.

GROSS.

[Myfirstlove]

I think DJ have chemistry as friends, but not as a romantic couple, but once they did get romantic, even their chemistry has friends lacked, JMO

[allybubba]

I only thought they had chemistry in S1 RIGHT beforeeeeeee.... I guess Beauty Conest when his undying love came out of the sky.

After that they were a joke.

[Touldengal]

Originally Posted by allybubba (View Post) I only thought they had chemistry in S1 RIGHT beforeeeeeee.... I guess Beauty Conest when his undying love came out of the sky. After that they were a joke.

i agree!
even in season 2, when their relationships is supposed to be "amazing" it really annoyed me.

[barbeegurl00]

Originally Posted by Myfirstlove (View Post) I think DJ have chemistry as friends, but not as a romantic couple, but once they did get romantic, even their chemistry has friends lacked, JMO

Exactly. Which is why I only like their friendship in season one (though even then I can see a lot of problems with it -- hindsight and all).

I always agree with Katie Holmes when she said that D/J seemed to drift apart the entire show. Their friendship just got more and more unrealistic. About half of every season they were not speaking, they never spoke during the summers, and again during the four years leading up to the finale. Another reason their little speeches in the finale lacked any substance. Sure, they'd always have a childhood friendship. But the "connection" we were supposed to see? Not there.

[InPerfectClouds]

haha Yeah, at the beginning, they seem a little cute, then a little annoying, and eventually a little completely off-beat and not right. Just a strange couple... It felt so forced watching them together!

Am I the only one who absolutely can't stand watching episodes and hearing Dawson say, over and over, how he is Joey's soulmate and knows she'll come back to him? What a cocky thing! Sorry, but I think we all know where her heart has always TRULY lied, right? ha!

Yeah, I feel like Dawson was just always the idealized "perfect boyfriend" Joey had had in mind since youth, but the type that, once you're with the person, everything's suddenly not so glamorous. Just a complicated mess of an attempted romantic relationship.

[xoheartinohioxo]

Oh i love this thread!! Anti DJ all the way!!!

[Myfirstlove]

Originally Posted by barbeegurl00 (View Post) I always agree with Katie Holmes when she said that D/J seemed to drift apart the entire show.

You know there is a problem with the couple, when even the actress that plays half the couple doesn't like the couple as a whole

Yeah, I feel like Dawson was just always the idealized "perfect boyfriend" Joey had had in mind since youth, but the type that, once you're with the person, every thing's suddenly not so glamorous. Just a complicated mess of an attempted romantic relationship

ITA, Joey had such high expectations of Dawson as a "boyfriend", that when it did happen, those high expectations, just started slipping down and eventually were very low. I also think that, people around them started putting in the whole romantic relationship thing in their head, like Pacey kept repeating it to Dawson over and over again during season 1 and how much Joey likes him, its like they thought it was the right thing to do.

[wingster]

yea that is true...it also shows that dawson went to joey because he thought he should just like she did to him

[starzscarme]

Originally Posted by Myfirstlove (View Post) ITA, Joey had such high expectations of Dawson as a "boyfriend", that when it did happen, those high expectations, just started slipping down and eventually were very low. I also think that, people around them started putting in the whole romantic relationship thing in their head, like Pacey kept repeating it to Dawson over and over again during season 1 and how much Joey likes him, its like they thought it was the right thing to do.

I think they both had unrealistic expectations of each other. And I think some of it had to do with the focus on the fact that they "had a past." Sure, they grew up together. But childhood friendship does not automatically equate to adult relationships. It was like they could never bridge that transition from one to another and in trying to, they ruined the friendship.

A big difference I see in platonic friendships and romantic relationships is honesty. It always seems much easier to be honest with your best friend than it may be with your boyfriend/girlfriend. Joey even said that to Bessie after Jack kissed her. Something to the effect of she could have told her "best friend" Dawson but not her "boyfriend" Dawson. And when the dishonesty set it between them, it put them on a whirlwind course of never being able to recover the bond they shared.

[barbeegurl00]

^ I really like that. So true.