[hshapir2]

now, that there is anti-PJ thread, I started this thread

[jopace1970]

Thanks hshapir!

So, what are the reasons you don't like D/J as a couple?

I always saw their relationship as a bit incestous. I felt that way from the beginning.

Anyone else?

[hshapir2]

jopace, thanks for coming here. I can't stand Dawson and Joey at all. His complete obliviousness to her in season 1. He only notices her after she puts makeup on. Their incestuous love scenes in 601. Dawson acting like Joey and Pacey betrayed him.

[FinallyPJ]

I totally agree with the title, hshapir. Dawson always held Joey back. He never let her be herself. He had this cookie cutter mold of her and she always had a specific part to play in his movie, i.e. his life.

And their relationship was a bit incestuous, I agree jopace and hshapir. I mean, they were friends for the longest time...more like brother and sister. Joey even said that the only time she felt like she was rowing home was toward Dawson's house. That in its own right is a bit strange.

A person needs to be with someone who will let them be their own person, develop their own ways of life. Dawson just never did that for Joey.

[jopace1970]

welcome hshapir.

Thank you Ali and hshapir. I thought D/J had one of the most unhealthy relationships on tv.

[hshapir2]

thanks finally. some of my favorite anti-DJ quotes

Dawson finally admitted he is delusional. I love this episode

Gretchen: Wait a second. First you gotta tell me what's going on with you. Dawson: Ok, uh... today is--is a perfect example. It's a perfect example of how our visions for our lives conflict with realities. I still have my distortions and my delusions. I still think that everything should be perfect, and that Joey and i should have slept together for the first time. What I realized is that I gotta let go. You know, I-- it's time. And there's so much ahead of me. I mean, there's college, there's--there's this new baby... and there's you

320 The Longest Day Dawson: Than explain it to me, Jo. Explain to me how two people who can't even stand to be in the same room with each other ended up at my window arguing about the future of their relationship. Joey: I can't, okay? I can't explain what just happened. Everything between you and me is so complicated. Dawson: If things between us are complicated it's because you made them that way, okay? You think that everything that was wrong when you were with is gonna magically get better when you're with him? Joey: I don't know, Dawson. I don't know, okay? I just know that I need him. Dawson: Need him like you need me? (Joey looks shocked. After a pause) Jo, it's a simple question. Do you need him like you need me? Joey: You can't do that, Dawson. You can't. Those two things have nothing to do with each other and you know that the way I feel about him is completely separate from the way that I feel about you and our friendship. Dawson: Friendship... right now we don't have a friendship. We don't have a friendship!! As of this moment we do not have a friendship.

he can't accept that she wants Pacey in the romantic way and him in a friendship way. She even says she doesn't need him the same way. Dawson is jealous, so he makes her choose

[FinallyPJ]

And making Joey choose, giving her a flat out ultimatum was just not how a friend is supposed to act. She was so confused about her relationship with Pacey and her friendship with Dawson, an ultimatum was just plain selfish. Time is the only thing that would help her understand...and patience is what was needed on Dawson's side.

[hshapir2]

totally agree finally. What gets me is Dawson says he's not going to be her consolation prize. He knew there she wanted to be with Pacey and not him

[jopace1970]

I think he was more upset about losing her to Pacey than anything. And he only seemed to care about their friendship when it was convenient for him. Joey was the same way after their first attempt at a relationship. I do think she cared a lot more about their friendship than Dawson did though.

Just my 02. cents. LOL.

[FinallyPJ]

That just shows how Dawson doesn't like to lose. I mean, look at what happened during the boat race. He was trying to turn into Pacey...trying to be the person who he thought she loved. But, everybody is their own individual. You can't be someone that your not. And what Joey needed at that time was a friend, a confidante. And Dawson just couldn't accept that.

[jopace1970]

I agree Ali. He was more concerned about beating Pacey and Joey was the trophey. IMO, that is not real love.

[FinallyPJ]

So true,jopace. That was not real love. This was real love:

[hshapir2]

totally agree finally and jopace. Dawson even said he wanted to be more like Pacey. Joey noticed it and said just by looking at his actions that she wasn't good for him

[FinallyPJ]

As a friend, you should always make sure that all those around you are happy. Dawson, at the time, didn't want to come to the realization that the one thing that made Joey happy was Pacey. He wanted to be her touchstone, the person she would come to. But, people change. Joey even mentioned that to Dawson in the beginning.

[Sugz]

Personally I dont even see how they can be considered a "couple". They dated for a few months when they were 15, everything after that was just confusion. THey never really got together after that and you'd think after let down after let down they'd realize that all they were holding on to was what they thought they should have had. I pretty much consider Dawson and Joey to have been two very stubborn and confused people from the ages of 15-20, after that Joey seemed to have snapped out of it and realized Dawson was better suited as "family", Dawson took a little longer but in essence Dawsons Creek was sort of a depressing story about two people who thought they were meant to be but really werent and if it werent for the distractions and saving graces of things like Pacey and Joey and Jen and Jack the series as a whole wouldve never lasted past 3 seasons.