Quote:
|
Like I said, I'm not into Spike nor any Buffy ships so I haven't paid much attention.
|
I used to be really immature about it and get into petty, pointless shipper wars, SMH. I've also seen the argument played out for 20+ years now, so it feels a bit like running in circles.
(Ugh, I can't believe I've been in the BTVS/ATS fandom on and off for that long.)
Quote:
|
Spike didn't require a soul to have the capacity to care whether an action was right or wrong and feel remorse whereas Angelus did as soulless he enjoyed hurting people which Buffy was no exception to not just despite his soul's love for her but because of it.
|
I think Spike did require a soul to care whether an action was right or wrong -- Seeing Red was the exception to the rule. Might that have been the first and only time he'd felt guilt without a soul? He felt guilt/loss/like he'd failed over not being able to save her life when she jumped from the tower, but I don't think that's the quite the same thing as the circumstances were very different. Anyway, I don't think the guilt Spike did feel in SR is equivalent to the guilt he'd feel with a soul (though the fact that he felt it at all is huge). I imagine he went from feeling horrible about it to feeling indescribably horrblex1000. Soulless Spike's goal was still to pursue and "win" Buffy, though, even after that. And had he not gotten the soul, I don't think he would've stayed away long. He would've continued to obsess over her, stalk her, and try coerce her into being with him. He couldn't not. He didn't have the capability to love her in a healthy way with the soul missing.
All in all, I've enjoyed this discussion. You brought up a lot of interesting points and got me thinking.
We have our differences of opinion, but there's still overlap and areas where we agree. Good talk.
Quote:
|
We see a specific example of the Angelus side of this in 'Eternity' when he, drug involvement aside, berates Cordy's performance in 'A Doll's House'.
|
I loooove that moment between Cordy & Angelus in Eternity. I loved Cordy using her Queen C attitude and wits to pull a fast one on Angelus. 200+ years old and he couldn't call her bluff. She's a boss.
This is 100% fanon now and my own delusions, but I like to imagine Angelus already had a thing for her there. He could've snapped her neck ASAP or tortured her in really violent ways (and he probably would've if he'd had more time, but imma ignore that) but instead he just insulted her acting. What he said was harsh and he knew it would hurt her feelings, but come on, this was Angelus, he could've been so much more savage if he'd wanted to. He'd been trapped with the soul again and upon being freed all he did was insult Cordy's acting and do a imitation of her?
(I find the imitation inappropriately funny. DB delivered it so well.
)
I also like to head canon Angelus would want to turn, not just kill, her. This is probably from reading too much fic but #sorry not sorry, as the kids say.